New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

Why do you support an association that is an obvious failure on this BB? Do you want to work in a facility that was once represented by AMFA and is now being filled by non-union low wage AMTs? AAR is hiring at one of the former NWA facilities.

http://www.aarcorp.c...nada_092613.htm


AAR is hiring, and so is every other third party maintenance vendor on the planet. Those places have revolving doors for employees. No AMT would want to make a career at a shite bag outfit like AAR. Places like AAR are stepping stone jobs for desperate people. They cannot find AMTs. As Bob Owens and myself have pointed out to you on many occasions, the AMT shortage is here, and it is only getting worse. So, knowing all this, you and the rocket scientist brain trust that is the TWU international, decide now is the time for another 6 year concessionary contract for the AMTs at AA? Makes me proud.

Say what you want about the AMFA at NWA - my brother worked there as an AMT, and to this day he has no regrets. NWA never recovered fully from that strike despite efforts to cover up all the short comings. Then ultimately the merger with Delta finally pretty much buried the issue.

Since I first heard about AMFA; about 27 years ago, I liked the concept. AMTs with their own union! Not some watered down, all inclusive, gulag union like the TWU. Nothing pisses me off more than having a sawed off runt with a diploma mill diploma like Jim Little making decisions for AMTs while making $300K a year. That goes for the "Lower your Expectations Twins" Phat Don & Side Show Bobby Gless.
 
I think I have finally figured out your raving ignorance and irradict behavior. You finally have realized that with no job security clause, weak scope language, and new aircraft or order that TUL is going to be decimated soon. Instead of accepting that fact, you are going on an ANTI-AMFA tangent so you can live in denial about what is about to take place to TWU/AA members in overhaul. Face it, overspeed, what is about to happen to the TWU membership, is no different than what has happened in the rest of the industry. The only difference is your ability to give concessions to save jobs has now ended because their is little to give up. The TWU already gave everything away, nothing left management really needs or wants now.
Example of weak scope language, Delle-Femine said Alaska had acted "without giving us an opportunity to discuss the matter and potentially come up with better alternatives, creating tremendous disruption for our members and their families."

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2002032672_alaska11.html

"Our legal firm is already preparing for legal action," Delle-Femine said. The statement added that the union would seek "expedited arbitration."

How'd that arbitration go?
 
Explain where all the jobs went at NWA? Outsourced on AMFA's watch. Where did all the overhaul jobs at the AS OAK base go? Outsourced on AMFA's watch.

Gotta love this stuff. Happy posting.
As usual, you avoid, avoid and avoid, then deflect. We already all know what took place at NWA with AMFA. You constantly harp and harp on it. I am extremely proud of the men and women who voted a struck at NWA. They showed what it takes to stand up to a company that wanted to cut the mechanics by more than 53%. The membership voted overwhelmingly to strike for their peers, and take it all the way to the end, KNOWING full well they could end up with all of them without a job. I also know where the credit lies for the wages our industry currently enjoy. Even all the airlines that just came out of, and still in BK. Because their wages would be about 10 bucks per hour lower than what they are now if it wasn't for AMFA at NWA. Yes there was some membership loss at NWA, but it was for the industry as a whole, at least they showed how to fight instead of laying down, giving in, and agreeing to everything the company wanted like the TWU did at AA in 2003 (out of BK) and currently again 10 years later. Now answer the questions below that you keep avoiding;--- Sooooooo, now I ask you, Overspeed, Just how many jobs or headcount has the TWU ADDED at AA over the past 3 years? Ok, 8 years? 12 years? So where is your jobs creation at AA for mechanics with the TWU??? Answer the questions Overspeed. Do not deflect as you always do. If AMFA isn't doing anything to help create jobs then why do we have so many X-AA mechanics and supervisors still coming in from your TWU saving, creating, or protecting their jobs? Remember, answer all the questions...
 
AAR is hiring, and so is every other third party maintenance vendor on the planet. Those places have revolving doors for employees. No AMT would want to make a career at a shite bag outfit like AAR. Places like AAR are stepping stone jobs for desperate people. They cannot find AMTs. As Bob Owens and myself have pointed out to you on many occasions, the AMT shortage is here, and it is only getting worse. So, knowing all this, you and the rocket scientist brain trust that is the TWU international, decide now is the time for another 6 year concessionary contract for the AMTs at AA? Makes me proud.

Say what you want about the AMFA at NWA - my brother worked there as an AMT, and to this day he has no regrets. NWA never recovered fully from that strike despite efforts to cover up all the short comings. Then ultimately the merger with Delta finally pretty much buried the issue.

Since I first heard about AMFA; about 27 years ago, I liked the concept. AMTs with their own union! Not some watered down, all inclusive, gulag union like the TWU. Nothing pisses me off more than having a sawed off runt with a diploma mill diploma like Jim Little making decisions for AMTs while making $300K a year. That goes for the "Lower your Expectations Twins" Phat Don & Side Show Bobby Gless.
Keep pointing out that there is insufficient AMTs out there. Have you not read or understand FAR 145? You don't need all A&Ps to work on aircraft at a 145 repair station. In fact, large MROs like GE engine services and ST Aero do it with a very low percentage of licensed AMTs. Corp America is quite a few steps ahead of you.

Point is we are very far apart. The TWU record on jobs is way better than any other union. AMFA has not held the line when it comes to outsourcing overhaul The facts are there. Are you suggesting that we either allow more outsourcing on the scale of SWA or we demand SWA wages for all AMTs while keeping the work in house? Option one will drive thousands out of their jobs and option two will drive AA's costs so high that will be back in BK in no time.

If the TWU had taken on AA in abrogating the CBA, Judge Lane would no doubt have given most, if not all what AA wanted. Thinking that just because we are the lowest paid now is not a factor in how the judge makes his decision. He had no legal right to determine wage parity, his job was to repay creditors. No matter which union - AMFA, IAM, IBT, or TWU - changes that fact.
 
Say what you want about the AMFA at NWA - my brother worked there as an AMT, and to this day he has no regrets. NWA never recovered fully from that strike despite efforts to cover up all the short comings. Then ultimately the merger with Delta finally pretty much buried the issue.

I would like to send a big thank you out to your brother. And I have talked to many X-NWA mechanics now here, and not one of them have any regrets. And all of them (except for one) would go with AMFA again if they had to vote for them again. The only thing I blame AMFA for is the timing, they waited too long to start the strike. As soon as the company brought in the scabs to train, that very same day they should have walked out. I honestly think it would have been a complete different outcome if they would have. Again my hat off to your brother, please let him know from others in the industry that know where to give credit where credit is due...
 
Keep pointing out that there is insufficient AMTs out there. Have you not read or understand FAR 145? You don't need all A&Ps to work on aircraft at a 145 repair station. In fact, large MROs like GE engine services and ST Aero do it with a very low percentage of licensed AMTs. Corp America is quite a few steps ahead of you.

Point is we are very far apart. The TWU record on jobs is way better than any other union. AMFA has not held the line when it comes to outsourcing overhaul The facts are there. Are you suggesting that we either allow more outsourcing on the scale of SWA or we demand SWA wages for all AMTs while keeping the work in house? Option one will drive thousands out of their jobs and option two will drive AA's costs so high that will be back in BK in no time.

If the TWU had taken on AA in abrogating the CBA, Judge Lane would no doubt have given most, if not all what AA wanted. Thinking that just because we are the lowest paid now is not a factor in how the judge makes his decision. He had no legal right to determine wage parity, his job was to repay creditors. No matter which union - AMFA, IAM, IBT, or TWU - changes that fact.
So you would again just lay down and cave to the companies wants and agree to them. Just like the TWU did for the past 3 decades, even out of BK. INSTEAD of standing up for the membership and fight for what is deserved like the brothers and sisters did at NWA. The TWU should be listed as a charity group as they always like to give give give... BTW quit avoiding my questions, it looks bad on you.
 
As usual, you avoid, avoid and avoid, then deflect. We already all know what took place at NWA with AMFA. You constantly harp and harp on it. I am extremely proud of the men and women who voted a struck at NWA. They showed what it takes to stand up to a company that wanted to cut the mechanics by more than 53%. The membership voted overwhelmingly to strike for their peers, and take it all the way to the end, KNOWING full well they could end up with all of them without a job. I also know where the credit lies for the wages our industry currently enjoy. Even all the airlines that just came out of, and still in BK. Because their wages would be about 10 bucks per hour lower than what they are now if it wasn't for AMFA at NWA. Yes there was some membership loss at NWA, but it was for the industry as a whole, at least they showed how to fight instead of laying down, giving in, and agreeing to everything the company wanted like the TWU did at AA in 2003 (out of BK) and currently again 10 years later. Now answer the questions below that you keep avoiding;--- Sooooooo, now I ask you, Overspeed, Just how many jobs or headcount has the TWU ADDED at AA over the past 3 years? Ok, 8 years? 12 years? So where is your jobs creation at AA for mechanics with the TWU??? Answer the questions Overspeed. Do not deflect as you always do. If AMFA isn't doing anything to help create jobs then why do we have so many X-AA mechanics and supervisors still coming in from your TWU saving, creating, or protecting their jobs? Remember, answer all the questions...
Prior to BK we added jobs and almost all AMTs were recalled in fact we were hiring and are again. AA dropped from over 800 to just under 600 aircraft. During BK AA cut jobs as you well know. You are comparing an airline that is shrinking to one that is growing. Apples to oranges because it is not black and white and your question lacks the full context needed to answer it.

It's not a dodge to realize there is more to a problem or issue. You are a mechanic, do you diagnose a problem without knowing the entire issue and information. The issues of jobs, pay, and benefits are extremely complex and it is pollyannish to think by asking one question and thinking that will answer the whole problem is ridiculous.
 
So you would again just lay down and cave to the companies wants and agree to them. Just like the TWU did for the past 3 decades, even out of BK. INSTEAD of standing up for the membership and fight for what is deserved like the brothers and sisters did at NWA. The TWU should be listed as a charity group as they always like to give give give... BTW quit avoiding my questions, it looks bad on you.
Sounds like you equate fighting and losing your job as a win. If you lose everything then you can't regroup and keep fighting.
 
Example of weak scope language, Delle-Femine said Alaska had acted "without giving us an opportunity to discuss the matter and potentially come up with better alternatives, creating tremendous disruption for our members and their families."

http://seattletimes....2_alaska11.html

"Our legal firm is already preparing for legal action," Delle-Femine said. The statement added that the union would seek "expedited arbitration."

How'd that arbitration go?
Like I said, what is about to happen here at AA has already happened in the rest of the industry. Only difference seems to be, the TWU gave away concessions to prevent it from happening, yet it is still taking place, and the others unions fought outright and lost. Will there ever come a day when you do not live in denial and you will hold the TWU accountable for losing so many jobs?

Failure is still Failure, regardless of the fact that some choose a different path to get there. Truth is, the representation of this profession has failed misreably. You are the only one that seems to believe some group is succeeding. And that is the belief of a fool living in denial.

The AMFA idea of ALL AMT's in one union has not failed, because it has still yet to be tried. Mainly because of idiots like yourself that want to keep grapsing to that idea that concessions of our pay and benefits in exchange for jobs is the best path to success.

I show up to work for pay and benefits in exchange for labor. Not to subsidize some unskilled worker a job that even he/she wont produce well enough to compete against foreign repair stations. You can subsidize as many as you want, but in the end, you will not recieve what you paid for with concessions. Never have, Never will!
 
Sounds like you equate fighting and losing your job as a win. If you lose everything then you can't regroup and keep fighting.
You might be right here, but until you and others actually have a will to fight, instead of give concessions and remain reliant on politicians for change, you are still screwed. I guess you enjoy the slow and miserbale death, over the getting off your knees and getting it over with your dignity still in place.
 
Prior to BK we added jobs and almost all AMTs were recalled in fact we were hiring and are again. AA dropped from over 800 to just under 600 aircraft. During BK AA cut jobs as you well know. You are comparing an airline that is shrinking to one that is growing. Apples to oranges because it is not black and white and your question lacks the full context needed to answer it.

It's not a dodge to realize there is more to a problem or issue. You are a mechanic, do you diagnose a problem without knowing the entire issue and information. The issues of jobs, pay, and benefits are extremely complex and it is pollyannish to think by asking one question and thinking that will answer the whole problem is ridiculous.
Your actually wrong again. We too shrank our fleet after 9-11, we too canceled A/C orders by large numbers, extended some orders until 2017-2018, put off options and continued to shrink the fleet. So your wrong again that SWA did not shrink and reduce fleet size. Matter fact while this shrinkage was going on SWA also decided to excellerate the 737 retirements by double what they were doing before. NOW WHAT WILL YOUR EXCUSE BE??? You say you added jobs----Bull ####!!! Mechanics were recalled after furloughs and lay-offs, that's not adding jobs OR headcount, the company is simply regaining back to what they once has, not adding jobs, are you for real??? Yes SWA is growing now, but we shrank just like all the airlines shrank but SWA didn't furlough, cut pay, or even displace ONE SINGLE EMPLOYEE!!! I will take that over your stupid and proud numbers ratio t you keep displaying how proud you are of it. YES you are still dodging and it is very evident. And your last sentence above is a complete back pedal, deflect or dodge as you wish to call it, from answering the questions------SPEAKS VOLUMES... Carry on.
 
Keep pointing out that there is insufficient AMTs out there. Have you not read or understand FAR 145? You don't need all A&Ps to work on aircraft at a 145 repair station. In fact, large MROs like GE engine services and ST Aero do it with a very low percentage of licensed AMTs. Corp America is quite a few steps ahead of you.

Point is we are very far apart. The TWU record on jobs is way better than any other union. AMFA has not held the line when it comes to outsourcing overhaul The facts are there. Are you suggesting that we either allow more outsourcing on the scale of SWA or we demand SWA wages for all AMTs while keeping the work in house? Option one will drive thousands out of their jobs and option two will drive AA's costs so high that will be back in BK in no time.

If the TWU had taken on AA in abrogating the CBA, Judge Lane would no doubt have given most, if not all what AA wanted. Thinking that just because we are the lowest paid now is not a factor in how the judge makes his decision. He had no legal right to determine wage parity, his job was to repay creditors. No matter which union - AMFA, IAM, IBT, or TWU - changes that fact.


Saving jobs, is that what the TWU is saying they were doing? Are you justifying AMT pay and benefits being decimated so you can claim you saved some jobs temporarily? The way I see it from the front line, your heros are not only giving away AMT pay and benefits - the company will continue to thin the overhaul heard anyway. I'm had enough with the TWU giving away AMT pay and benefits to preserve jobs that are no longer required due to attrition. Essentially the TWU is subsidizing overhaul headcount by slashing pay and benefits of all AMTs at AA. Did we vote on that? I don't know about you, but the benefits your pals negotiated suck! 5 holidays..really, still have half pay when we call in SK...what a joke! The list goes on and on.

Time to get the AMFA in, and restore our pay and benefits.


Regarding your FAR Part 145 claim, I am well aware of it. I said it before, I will say it again, they can't find quality unlicensed people either. Then if they do happen to find somebody who posses skills and tools - then there are other issues like passing drug tests and background checks. That is why they have been caught bringing in illegal foreign workers.
 
Keep pointing out that there is insufficient AMTs out there. Have you not read or understand FAR 145? You don't need all A&Ps to work on aircraft at a 145 repair station. In fact, large MROs like GE engine services and ST Aero do it with a very low percentage of licensed AMTs. Corp America is quite a few steps ahead of you.

Point is we are very far apart. The TWU record on jobs is way better than any other union. AMFA has not held the line when it comes to outsourcing overhaul The facts are there. Are you suggesting that we either allow more outsourcing on the scale of SWA or we demand SWA wages for all AMTs while keeping the work in house? Option one will drive thousands out of their jobs and option two will drive AA's costs so high that will be back in BK in no time.

If the TWU had taken on AA in abrogating the CBA, Judge Lane would no doubt have given most, if not all what AA wanted. Thinking that just because we are the lowest paid now is not a factor in how the judge makes his decision. He had no legal right to determine wage parity, his job was to repay creditors. No matter which union - AMFA, IAM, IBT, or TWU - changes that fact.
Ok we get it, AA employs more mechanics than any other carrier, but at much lower rates of pay. Guess your goal is to make this list: http://en.wikipedia....rgest_employers note that none of those employers are Union, and they all pay crap and sell the same line that you do that working for less is good for you and you should be happy and willing to do so so they can hire more people. Sorry we don't need to pay $700 a year for that, we can get that with no union, speaking of which Delta, Fed Ex and Jet Blue (combined) have more A&P mechanics working for them than AA does, and they pay them better than AA does. fact is that AA did get everything they wanted, they got it in 2003 without filing for BK and came back for more than they ever thought possible in 2012, and Don Videtich delivered both times and many times in between ,,,JLT, PLI, etc etc. No FAR Shops don't need to Hire A&Ps, but they prefer them. Lets face it, A&Ps were willing to sell themselves cheap to MROs in the hopes that they could get the experience they needed to get into the airlines, or to hold them over till they were recalled to an airline. People who are mechanically inclined are even more likely to skip out or not even take those jobs because they don't look at it as a means to something better, they see it for the shitty job it is and move on to other industries. All those FBOs are hiring and they all complain they cant get people. If the FBOs (and Military) were the places where guys got the experience they needed and they cant get people that means problems for the airlines down the road. We didn't save jobs, in fact AA has hired over 100 mechanics off the street since they filed for C-11, over 500 since we gave concessions in 2003. what we have done is turn our job into one of the jobs people take to get the experience they need to get a good job somewhere else. We have already become the source of experienced mechanics not only for SWA but even Non-union outfits like Jet-Blue and Fed -Ex. You say its either-or. The fact is we don't even make UA or Delta wages let alone SWA wages. You say that SWA traded away wages in exchange for outsourcing but cant provide one iota of proof, the fact is that SWA did not increase outsourcing, they maintained it, the only change is that they now allow the company to outsource it overseas, on a limited basis, whereas we allow the same thing without the same limits.
 
As I've read here before "we all lost the jobs we once had, we just still work at the same place". If we were laid off as a result of maintaining the wage at least we would have something to look forward to if we didn't find anything better, and there are a few guys here from NWA that have done just that. We don't see anyone from NWA saying they wish they had simply rolled over and given the company everything they wanted. Just because AA says they want it that doesn't mean they really do Overspeed, that's all part of the negotiations process, aim high, but your boy Videtich was all about aiming low and settling even lower.
 
Explain where all the jobs went at NWA? Outsourced on AMFA's watch. Where did all the overhaul jobs at the AS OAK base go? Outsourced on AMFA's watch.

Gotta love this stuff. Happy posting.
We are down to 9416 ( that's counting automotive and facilities). We had according to the TWU over 18,000 less than 10 years ago, before you expect anyone to answer where the jobs at other carriers went explain where the jobs at AA went. yes the fleet went down by 30% but that's a 50% drop in headcount. Now we are expected to go down to around 7000 with the lowest pay in the industry on top of that.
 

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