New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[Overspeed]

Yep those TWU jobs where AMT's make Burger King wages so that they can keep OH jobs which are going away anyway. Then the remainder will make poverty wages after OH goes away which it will. Yeah you just keep hanging on to that dream. FOOL

Last I checked BK workers were striking nationally for $15

 

[Vortilon]

Nah. I called tech and I'm within limits. You know tech where they listened and voted yes in 2010 and are the highest paid techs in the industry even after BK. They are TWU FYI

Oh yeah, Tech, where if an experienced AMT wanted to go into Tech Services - he would lose his seniority. Yet another brilliant move by the TWU.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Nah. I called tech and I'm within limits. You know tech where they listened and voted yes in 2010 and are the highest paid techs in the industry even after BK. They are TWU FYI

See if you were a mechanic you would check the book yourself. Highest paid in the industry? More than a regular mechanic at SWA or UPS or Fed Ex? If you can cite how SWA and UPS have the lowest ratio of mechanics per airplane in the industry in one post how can you then claim that they are not in our industry in another? Oh that's right-you are Overspeed, you can do that. The TWU has done a pretty good job for other title groups, our stores guys voted NO as well but they too are among the highest paid, same goes for Title II, Fleet and Dispatch who either voted NO or didn't vote at all despite having TA's but for some reason the TWU hates Aircraft mechanics, especially Line mechanics, we are the only ones at the bottom, and had we voted in the 2010 deal we would still be at the bottom because 2010 was a zero cost contract, we would have to come up with the 20% somewhere right? Didn't we take the biggest ever paycut in 2003 to save jobs? Are you claiming that Tulsa would not have agreed to more paycuts this time around and used their higher numbers to take back the Line Premium? The problem wasn't that we voted NO, the problem was that after we voted NO the International refused to ask for a release despite already having the Strike Vote. We voted NO in August of 2010, yet were still jerking around in November of 2011, over a year later.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Last I checked BK workers were striking nationally for $15

Yep, and they really don't need experience or skills for the job, and they don't pay union dues. starting rate for AMT-$15.64, Starting rate for OSM-$10.17 , Starting rate for Cleaner $10.40, Starting rate for MSP-$8.90. These poor souls earning just $8.90 an hour have to fork over two hours pay per month to the Union, yea, I'd say that puts them in league with McDonalds workers, except that they don't get fed. When you add in the value of being fed every day , short commute and take out what the MSP must pay in Union Dues I'll bet the McDonalds worker is paid better.

 

[Thomas Paine]

If you lose everything then you can't regroup and keep fighting.

30 years and still waiting to regroup? When I look around at work I see a group that has lost everything as far as the job is concerned, and have lost the will to fight for this job, at least as long as we have the TWU. Lets see if we lost more than we kept, I'll list what we lost, you list what we kept. We lost;
Our Pension
Our Employer paid medical
Our retiree medical
50% of our pay
50% of the jobs
OT for hours all hours in excess of 8
Double time for hours in excess of 12
Seniority rights-management picks crew Chiefs
Vacation-lowest vacation accrual in the industry, probably any industry
Lost five Holidays
Lost more than half the pay for the 5 that remained
Lost seven Sick days
lost half pay for the first two days sich each occurance
Lost 70 days IOD Time
Paid Lunch
$3meal allowance on OT
Outsource fuel tank work from the lines
Outsource 15% of line maintenance
Outsource an unlimited percentage of OH as long as total spend for Outsourcing remains under 35% of Maintenance spend subject to exclusions and changes at the companys discretion
Outsource A&P work to OSM and Fleet service
Lost shift premiums
Lost penalty hour
Lost OT goes to man lowest in hours- company has "job continuation" where they can bypass
Lost right to refuse to have 10 hour shifts
Lost company paid LTD
Lost longevity pay
Lost weekend premium(base)
Lost uniform cleaning and had provision cut in half
Lost job protection "P" and "S".
I'm sure there are more but I think that should keep you busy.
If you are inclined to debate these losses I'm willing, now tell us what you claim we kept by not fighting. Don't bother bringing up NWA, different time, different situation, besides if you are not willing to fight for at least half the things on that list you have no business being in a union. Especially when Non-Union workers have many of those things.

I don't know about you but AA isn't "everything" to me, so if the worst that could happen by fighting is we all lost our jobs I still have something, I have my skills, my tools and my self respect along with plenty of other things that are even more important than being an employee of a company that doesn't respect the value we provide. The NWA guys didn't lose everything, they moved on. Under your "sky is falling" scenario, so would we.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

30 years and still waiting to regroup? When I look around at work I see a group that has lost everything as far as the job is concerned, and have lost the will to fight for this job, at least as long as we have the TWU. Lets see if we lost more than we kept, I'll list what we lost, you list what we kept. We lost;
Our Pension
Our Employer paid medical
Our retiree medical
50% of our pay
50% of the jobs
OT for hours all hours in excess of 8
Double time for hours in excess of 12
Seniority rights-management picks crew Chiefs
Vacation-lowest vacation accrual in the industry, probably any industry
Lost five Holidays
Lost more than half the pay for the 5 that remained
Lost seven Sick days
lost half pay for the first two days sich each occurance
Lost 70 days IOD Time
Paid Lunch
$3meal allowance on OT
Outsource fuel tank work from the lines
Outsource 15% of line maintenance
Outsource an unlimited percentage of OH as long as total spend for Outsourcing remains under 35% of Maintenance spend subject to exclusions and changes at the companys discretion
Outsource A&P work to OSM and Fleet service
Lost shift premiums
Lost penalty hour
Lost OT goes to man lowest in hours- company has "job continuation" where they can bypass
Lost right to refuse to have 10 hour shifts
Lost company paid LTD
Lost longevity pay
Lost weekend premium(base)
Lost uniform cleaning and had provision cut in half
Lost job protection "P" and "S".
I'm sure there are more but I think that should keep you busy.
If you are inclined to debate these losses I'm willing, now tell us what you claim we kept by not fighting. Don't bother bringing up NWA, different time, different situation, besides if you are not willing to fight for at least half the things on that list you have no business being in a union. Especially when Non-Union workers have many of those things.

I don't know about you but AA isn't "everything" to me, so if the worst that could happen by fighting is we all lost our jobs I still have something, I have my skills, my tools and my self respect along with plenty of other things that are even more important than being an employee of a company that doesn't respect the value we provide. The NWA guys didn't lose everything, they moved on. Under your "sky is falling" scenario, so would we.

well said Mr. Paine,

Overspeed read above, click your heels 3 times and wish you knew what the hell you are talking about!!!!

 

[1AA]

30 years and still waiting to regroup? When I look around at work I see a group that has lost everything as far as the job is concerned, and have lost the will to fight for this job, at least as long as we have the TWU. Lets see if we lost more than we kept, I'll list what we lost, you list what we kept. We lost;
Our Pension
Our Employer paid medical
Our retiree medical
50% of our pay
50% of the jobs
OT for hours all hours in excess of 8
Double time for hours in excess of 12
Seniority rights-management picks crew Chiefs
Vacation-lowest vacation accrual in the industry, probably any industry
Lost five Holidays
Lost more than half the pay for the 5 that remained
Lost seven Sick days
lost half pay for the first two days sich each occurance
Lost 70 days IOD Time
Paid Lunch
$3meal allowance on OT
Outsource fuel tank work from the lines
Outsource 15% of line maintenance
Outsource an unlimited percentage of OH as long as total spend for Outsourcing remains under 35% of Maintenance spend subject to exclusions and changes at the companys discretion
Outsource A&P work to OSM and Fleet service
Lost shift premiums
Lost penalty hour
Lost OT goes to man lowest in hours- company has "job continuation" where they can bypass
Lost right to refuse to have 10 hour shifts
Lost company paid LTD
Lost longevity pay
Lost weekend premium(base)
Lost uniform cleaning and had provision cut in half
Lost job protection "P" and "S".
I'm sure there are more but I think that should keep you busy.
If you are inclined to debate these losses I'm willing, now tell us what you claim we kept by not fighting. Don't bother bringing up NWA, different time, different situation, besides if you are not willing to fight for at least half the things on that list you have no business being in a union. Especially when Non-Union workers have many of those things.

I don't know about you but AA isn't "everything" to me, so if the worst that could happen by fighting is we all lost our jobs I still have something, I have my skills, my tools and my self respect along with plenty of other things that are even more important than being an employee of a company that doesn't respect the value we provide. The NWA guys didn't lose everything, they moved on. Under your "sky is falling" scenario, so would we.

How sad that many still think the TWU saved jobs and is doing a good job. Hate to see what the list would look like when the same knuckleheads think the TWU is doing a bad job.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Oh yeah, Tech, where if an experienced AMT wanted to go into Tech Services - he would lose his seniority. Yet another brilliant move by the TWU.

I would have to agree with Vortilon. Tying title groups with seniority is a tool of manipulation. In my opinion it is a stupid, foolish, short sighted rule. The company should not treat a 30 year employee like a day one employee just because they want to try something new. A real UNION would not stand for that crap.

This rule can hurt new people as well. I have had my own experience with this. When I started back in 2000 I took a job in Fleet Service because that is where American Airlines had openings. I originally wanted to get into maintenance. I had several years background doing commercial electrical work and wanted to transfer out as soon as I was off probation. Sickness caused me to miss work while on probation. As a consequence my probation was extended by six months. That took me to Oct of 2001. A month later 9/11 happened. After that I felt I had better stay in Fleet if I wanted to keep my job.

So long story short I came in with a skill (electrical) and a want (a maintenance position) but got stuck in a job I did not really want for 11 (12 with probation) years because of that stupid rule. The end of the joke is it did not matter, because the company contracted out Tulsa Fleet anyway.

In my opinion if an employee is qualified and has the necessary (relevant) documentation to back up their claims they should be allowed to go anywhere they like that their seniority will afford them.

 

[swamt]

How sad that many still think the TWU saved jobs and is doing a good job. Hate to see what the list would look like when the same knuckleheads think the TWU is doing a bad job.

And overspeed will claim that AA wanted far, far more headcount than what they got. Little does he know that this was just a tactic. AA called for far more heads to be released just so the TWU could sell the fact that they wanted more. I said this in the very beginning that this was going to happen so that it would "appear" that the TWU fought for jobs. So once again it was collusion between the TWU and AA. Also little does overspeed know, that AA got more headcount reduction than they really needed by working the TWU the way they did, and the TWU thinks they did a great job and won the fight because AA never got that "phantom" number they claim they wanted. It was all a game to both AA and the TWU from the very beginning. A game that was dealing with peoples lively hoods. Really hope you guys get more serious about firing the TWU this time around...

 

[psa8979]

Thomas Paine it's ALL ! Roni Reagans fault and the Unions /Members who allowed 30+ yrs. of never thinking it would get this bad for Airline Union Workers when the PATCO Union/ Workers were FIRED and REPLACED. The ? is what UNION is going to step up and end the decline ? So far NONE ! of the Transport/Airline Unions representing above and below the wing Classifications can move beyond their own internal issues and reverse the decline.

 

[Overspeed]

30 years and still waiting to regroup? When I look around at work I see a group that has lost everything as far as the job is concerned, and have lost the will to fight for this job, at least as long as we have the TWU. Lets see if we lost more than we kept, I'll list what we lost, you list what we kept. We lost;
Our Pension
Our Employer paid medical
Our retiree medical
50% of our pay
50% of the jobs
OT for hours all hours in excess of 8
Double time for hours in excess of 12
Seniority rights-management picks crew Chiefs
Vacation-lowest vacation accrual in the industry, probably any industry
Lost five Holidays
Lost more than half the pay for the 5 that remained
Lost seven Sick days
lost half pay for the first two days sich each occurance
Lost 70 days IOD Time
Paid Lunch
$3meal allowance on OT
Outsource fuel tank work from the lines
Outsource 15% of line maintenance
Outsource an unlimited percentage of OH as long as total spend for Outsourcing remains under 35% of Maintenance spend subject to exclusions and changes at the companys discretion
Outsource A&P work to OSM and Fleet service
Lost shift premiums
Lost penalty hour
Lost OT goes to man lowest in hours- company has "job continuation" where they can bypass
Lost right to refuse to have 10 hour shifts
Lost company paid LTD
Lost longevity pay
Lost weekend premium(base)
Lost uniform cleaning and had provision cut in half
Lost job protection "P" and "S".
I'm sure there are more but I think that should keep you busy.
If you are inclined to debate these losses I'm willing, now tell us what you claim we kept by not fighting. Don't bother bringing up NWA, different time, different situation, besides if you are not willing to fight for at least half the things on that list you have no business being in a union. Especially when Non-Union workers have many of those things.

I don't know about you but AA isn't "everything" to me, so if the worst that could happen by fighting is we all lost our jobs I still have something, I have my skills, my tools and my self respect along with plenty of other things that are even more important than being an employee of a company that doesn't respect the value we provide. The NWA guys didn't lose everything, they moved on. Under your "sky is falling" scenario, so would we.

All given (taken) under threat and eventually BK. Next question.

 

[Overspeed]

And overspeed will claim that AA wanted far, far more headcount than what they got. Little does he know that this was just a tactic. AA called for far more heads to be released just so the TWU could sell the fact that they wanted more. I said this in the very beginning that this was going to happen so that it would "appear" that the TWU fought for jobs. So once again it was collusion between the TWU and AA. Also little does overspeed know, that AA got more headcount reduction than they really needed by working the TWU the way they did, and the TWU thinks they did a great job and won the fight because AA never got that "phantom" number they claim they wanted. It was all a game to both AA and the TWU from the very beginning. A game that was dealing with peoples lively hoods. Really hope you guys get more serious about firing the TWU this time around...

Like I said. I would be fine either way. I have more than 25 years. You want to take extreme risk because you think we would have gotten a different result than NWA, US, UA, HP, or what DL did to their employees then fine. I would still be working. If anything I feel very disheartened that I am sticking up for people's careers that they obviously are willing to sacrifice for me getting a fatter paycheck.

 

[Overspeed]

well said Mr. Paine,

Overspeed read above, click your heels 3 times and wish you knew what the hell you are talking about!!!!

I do Chuck. I really do, I am just not willing to step on top of thousands of lower seniority members to fatten my wallet.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

All given (taken) under threat and eventually BK. Next question.

Wrong. The TWU was given total access to all financial information such as the millions in the slush fund for the retirement accounts for the 40 thieves in 2003. They knew the BK threat was just that but kept the information from the dues paying membership. They signed confidentiality agreements so they kept their mouths shut. They chose to keep AA's secret even though it was devastating to the membership who was owed their allegiance. I don't care that they signed the confidentiality agreements. I do care that they helped AA lie their way to five year deals that ended up being nine year deals. The legal ramifications of telling the membership despite the confidentiality agreements? Can you imagine Arpey on the witness stand telling a judge that the TWU would not help them sell the lie? You guys are hilarious. Drink more koolaid and keep wearing your enough is enough shirt. Enough is never enough for the TWU. What a joke. Management laughs their collective a$$ off when they see them. How about stopping them from running over the membership? Oh, we can't do that either. The point is if the TWU had ever done what they were supposed to do and actually represent and defend the membership we would not be close to where we are today. Why don't you go to the sign shop and print up some "Vote Yes" signs for the next contract?

 

[Thomas Paine]

All given (taken) under threat and eventually BK. Next question.

Ok, so you lost that one. So according to you in negotiations all a company has to do is threaten us and we should give them whatever they want. Isn't that how it works with Non-union companies? If all they have to do is threaten us to get what they want why bother having a Union?

The next question is why do other mechanics still have most of whats on the list even after BK?