Negotiations........why?

[Albert]

Albert, one big issue yet to be resolved regarding seniority is that of the crew chiefs.  US has specific seniority for them whereas AA uses AMT occupational/classification seniority.

To follow up, Im looking at the LAA seniority list here at LGA  the  top 4 are crew chiefs so they wouldnt put up much of a stink 

 

[Albert]

Albert, one big issue yet to be resolved regarding seniority is that of the crew chiefs.  US has specific seniority for them whereas AA uses AMT occupational/classification seniority.

 Sorry RK I just realized you were talking about mechs. I got to  slow down  and read before I write but  some of these guys here are driving me nuts. I'll repeat myself  I feel like Eddie Albert and some of these guys are the rest of the cast in Green Acres if you are old enough to remember the show

 

[Roadking5560]

Yes, I'm old enough to remember the show and believe it or not I can sing the opening theme song, although you may not want to hear me sing it! LOL 

 

[Buck]

dfwgen,
They are setting up a DL/AA/US reconciliation committee and will determine the differences and how to best address them. They will meet bi-monthly with rotating meeting locations.

Why is it that Delta used or is it using Southwest to average their industry wages?

 

[lineguy43]

I'm curious. So what do you belive I should be paid then? According to the BLS the average person dealing with bags in all industries make about $12.00 per hour. That's the true "Market" for that job. Unions are not supposed to be dictated by the market though for your information. They're supposed to try to raise that bar.

If the market were a living breathing entity and you went in front of it and asked what it wanted to pay you, I can tell you what it would come back with. Minimum wage. The lowest possible number it can get or force you to take. That's reality. It doesn't care about what you want or what you feel your needs are.

So you just like that market you quote believe you should be paid more than me, OH, the agents, FAs, support ataff, (Maybe the Pilots, management, The CEO, Tom Brady) McDonald's, Walmart.

Just remember that not everyone might think you're worth as much as you think you are. I bet the passengers who want the cheapest seat they possibly can get would also say, YOU'RE OVERPAID.

 
I kinda hate these conversations that pit us against each other the airlines that are union love it but the fact remains the likes of the twu and iam and the NMB and the class and craft for A@P's have created this animosity between ramp and AMT's because of the socialist structure of these industrial unions. Aircraft Maintenance is about as diverse in skill sets than any other occupation in aviation. Thats what allows the weak AMT's to blend in with the ones who really have talant. I started in this biz on the ramp but for less than a yr I went and got my A@P and through the years developed my skill set now after over 30 yrs in the industry and as a maintenance controller I still see things every day Ive never seen before. The management for the most part thinks a mechanic is a mechanic and we are all the same WE ARE NOT!. I suck at sheetmetal but there are guys who make it look easy. If I hurt your feelings I am sorry but I earned my right to be paid for my skill. If you really want a true indicator of where ramp should be in relation to licensed AMT's look no further than a non union company. Where I work the top pay for AMT's is 100k at this time the guys who work the ramp top out at anywhere between 20 and 25 per hr. There is room for AMT's under the twu and the iam to have heartburn. The NMB class and craft of "mechanics and related" has in been kept that way by unions like the twu and the iam and has been keeping the AMT down while propping up other classifications at the expense of AMT's. I don't care personally what they pay any other classification you get what you negotiate but when you are in a union where a member negotiating for your trade is a fleet service guy and the class and craft forces your classification to take others into it like we had to with the aircraft cleaners with AMFA the AMT is going to lose. Until the class and craft is changed and a true union can represent licensed AMT's as a seperate craft of their own I will stick to being non union. WeAAsels you like your job and do not want to be an AMT thats great but there is no reason any AMT with a license should be making less than 50 dollars an hour.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok Weaas I have some proposals for you lets begin with scope currently LUS has it at 1 flight per day LAA has it at what 14? I propose 4 daily with all the hubs we have (even if they close 1 or 2) the idea of a station such as BWI going below 4 mainline flight is slim to none.
  Lets go with retirement (this is probably  causing the friction with the ASS) I believe the company has X amount of dollars for each employee and doesnt care where they contribute it  evidence being here at US they contribute to IAM for fleet and a 401 for CSA so  if you are in the IAM fund now you can stay with it if you want it in 401 it goes there the idea of a 50 year old LAA employee joining the IAM fund is ridiculous. so we ask for some improvements on that maybe 1% or something
 Sick time 10 a year at full pay with a cap at 175 days you get a certain% when you retire. They can keep their silly point system that encourages  you to call sick 3 days if you are going to be late bottom line if you dont abuse it you will be fine
 Holidays 10 a year  regular time plus time and half like we used to get
 Work rules everything will pretty much stay the same catering,freight in some cities. You know a vendor cant walk a stroller down the jetway things like that. overtime 1.5 the first day double time for the  7th. I believe the company would go for these items I also believe if you put these items to a vote knowing a yes vote would also mean a hefty pay raise this would pass by 85% despite all the no's you would here from the breakrooms> As far as the salary figure around $27
Now my ferret friend please forgive the punctuation, mispellings and run on sentences but I just got you a contract in 5 minutes

Not bad Al. A few good things I could "fly" with BUT you have to remember that only the Quarterback throws the ball and not us guys sitting in the armchairs.

We elect " by majority" members whose job it is to figure it all out and put it together and see what the other team (the company) thinks of it before we give it the thumbs up or down. I'll tell you again that those guys have a good handle on things and have done their homework.

I'm not the least bit concerned about what is eventually going to be sitting on my desk to go ahead and be able to give it my stamp of approval.

 

[WeAAsles]

I kinda hate these conversations that pit us against each other the airlines that are union love it but the fact remains the likes of the twu and iam and the NMB and the class and craft for A@P's have created this animosity between ramp and AMT's because of the socialist structure of these industrial unions. Aircraft Maintenance is about as diverse in skill sets than any other occupation in aviation. Thats what allows the weak AMT's to blend in with the ones who really have talant. I started in this biz on the ramp but for less than a yr I went and got my A@P and through the years developed my skill set now after over 30 yrs in the industry and as a maintenance controller I still see things every day Ive never seen before. The management for the most part thinks a mechanic is a mechanic and we are all the same WE ARE NOT!. I suck at sheetmetal but there are guys who make it look easy. If I hurt your feelings I am sorry but I earned my right to be paid for my skill. If you really want a true indicator of where ramp should be in relation to licensed AMT's look no further than a non union company. Where I work the top pay for AMT's is 100k at this time the guys who work the ramp top out at anywhere between 20 and 25 per hr. There is room for AMT's under the twu and the iam to have heartburn. The NMB class and craft of "mechanics and related" has in been kept that way by unions like the twu and the iam and has been keeping the AMT down while propping up other classifications at the expense of AMT's. I don't care personally what they pay any other classification you get what you negotiate but when you are in a union where a member negotiating for your trade is a fleet service guy and the class and craft forces your classification to take others into it like we had to with the aircraft cleaners with AMFA the AMT is going to lose. Until the class and craft is changed and a true union can represent licensed AMT's as a seperate craft of their own I will stick to being non union. WeAAsels you like your job and do not want to be an AMT thats great but there is no reason any AMT with a license should be making less than 50 dollars an hour.

I don't fault any man for what he wants or what he feels he deserves and I also wish him the best in getting that. But I do fault a man who concerns himself with what I want or what I feel I deserve.

We always seem to worry too much about everyone else and never enough about ourselves.

 

[WeAAsles]

Kev
The  seniority has already been decided the other things are in articles already in the contracts,  just take the best from both. Im not sure I understand what you mean about pensions. Does AA have a flat rate go into the 401 or is it a company match? At one time here at US we had both. Here at US what the company puts in my pension is pretty close to what the CSAs have contrbuted to their 401s

Al I gave you a link to our contract. Again you really should READ it.

But we get a 5.5% match for all hours worked if we contribute that much. Otherwise it's a 3% contribution.

 

[swamt]

 
I kinda hate these conversations that pit us against each other the airlines that are union love it but the fact remains the likes of the twu and iam and the NMB and the class and craft for <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="mailto:A@P" href="mailto:A@P" s"="">A@P's have created this animosity between ramp and AMT's because of the socialist structure of these industrial unions. Aircraft Maintenance is about as diverse in skill sets than any other occupation in aviation. Thats what allows the weak AMT's to blend in with the ones who really have talant. I started in this biz on the ramp but for less than a yr I went and got my A@P and through the years developed my skill set now after over 30 yrs in the industry and as a maintenance controller I still see things every day Ive never seen before. The management for the most part thinks a mechanic is a mechanic and we are all the same WE ARE NOT!. I suck at sheetmetal but there are guys who make it look easy. If I hurt your feelings I am sorry but I earned my right to be paid for my skill. If you really want a true indicator of where ramp should be in relation to licensed AMT's look no further than a non union company. Where I work the top pay for AMT's is 100k at this time the guys who work the ramp top out at anywhere between 20 and 25 per hr. There is room for AMT's under the twu and the iam to have heartburn. The NMB class and craft of "mechanics and related" has in been kept that way by unions like the twu and the iam and has been keeping the AMT down while propping up other classifications at the expense of AMT's. I don't care personally what they pay any other classification you get what you negotiate but when you are in a union where a member negotiating for your trade is a fleet service guy and the class and craft forces your classification to take others into it like we had to with the aircraft cleaners with AMFA the AMT is going to lose. Until the class and craft is changed and a true union can represent licensed AMT's as a seperate craft of their own I will stick to being non union. WeAAsels you like your job and do not want to be an AMT thats great but there is no reason any AMT with a license should be making less than 50 dollars an hour.

BINGO.  Well said sir...

 

[MetalMover]

Just remember that not everyone might think you're worth as much as you think you are. I bet the passengers who want the cheapest seat they possibly can get would also say, YOU'RE OVERPAID.

That is only until there is a aircraft crash resulting in loss of life. Once those deceased passengers' survivors hire their lawyers and sue the airlines, then in that courtroom before a jury, an astronomical value will be placed on their loved ones' lives. Thus making OUR value also astronomical. People may think that pilots are overpaid, but that one time when that pilot has to fly a crippled airliner back to land, he or she is worth every penny he or she ever earned in their careers. The passenger has become accustomed to the cheap seats only because the airlines have allowed this to happen. And they made it happen mainly at the expense of the airline worker.

 

[WeAAsles]

That is only until there is a aircraft crash resulting in loss of life. Once those deceased passengers' survivors hire their lawyers and sue the airlines, then in that courtroom before a jury, an astronomical value will be placed on their loved ones' lives. Thus making OUR value also astronomical. People may think that pilots are overpaid, but that one time when that pilot has to fly a crippled airliner back to land, he or she is worth every penny he or she ever earned in their careers. The passenger has become accustomed to the cheap seats only because the airlines have allowed this to happen. And they made it happen mainly at the expense of the airline worker.

You don't have to explain it to me. I believe in your value and absolutely agree, you're underpaid.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I don't fault any man for what he wants or what he feels he deserves and I also wish him the best in getting that. But I do fault a man who concerns himself with what I want or what I feel I deserve.

We always seem to worry too much about everyone else and never enough about ourselves.

 
You called me a POS for expressing my way of thinking.
I think you steward button should be revoked. Dave, YOU are a hypocrite!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

 
You called me a POS for expressing my way of thinking.
I think you steward button should be revoked. Dave, YOU are a hypocrite!!!

And you deserve NOTHING because you are a complete sellout only looking after totally and completely your own best interest.

You love and agree with management and yet don't even have the guts to make the leap into their house because you know it's that Union contract that keeps you warm at night.

When you muster (I doubt it) the guts to go into your true calling and where you belong then maybe my thoughts about you will change a little.

 

[bob@las-AA]

And you deserve NOTHING because you are a complete sellout only looking after totally and completely your own best interest.

You love and agree with management and yet don't even have the guts to make the leap into their house because you know it's that Union contract that keeps you warm at night.

When you muster (I doubt it) the guts to go into your true calling and where you belong then maybe my thoughts about you will change a little.

 
And management loves me! Because I get paid to follow the rules, not favors, and I follow them to the letter. And you want to fault me for that.  Better to be on good terms than bad. Weren't you there when they taught that in steward school?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
And management loves me! Because I get paid to follow the rules, not favors, and I follow them to the letter. And you want to fault me for that.  Better to be on good terms than bad. Weren't you there when they taught that in steward school?

Yep I'm on awful terms with Management. Just horrendous.

Here's a reality check for you man. I don't know you and I don't care about you.

Sorry if that bursts your bubble.