More MEM Cuts

[WorldTraveler]

Ok, it’s my turn. Take a deep breath and let’s talk rationally and w/o emotion… that is what you want me to do so it would only be far to expect you to do so as well, would it not?

No. For frontline employees, there is an increase each year (or step). To reach the top of the scale takes 11 years. That happens outside of performance reviews.

Separately, each year DL takes the rates at other "peer" carriers (they only use top-of-scale rates, BTW), and averages. From that number, the come up with an industry average, which is then used to either increase or decrease the base rates at each step. Furthermore, they do not unilaterally impose the same percentage increase/decrease on all steps. For example, the increase coming in January is a 4% raise for the top step. All other steps will only see 2%.

That said, merit employees (now as management in the rest of the world) *do* have a portion of their pay predicated on performance. Management has pay grades (7, 7S, 8, etc), with each grade having it's own pay bandwidth.

To be clear, DL merit employees pay raises are entirely performance (merit) based and are tied to the performance evaluation. It is very possible that a merit employee could receive no salary increase but if that happens, they likely are on a performance improvement plan with definite actions that are required to improve their performance.
Frontline employees, IIRC, also are not eligible for general pay raises if they are on a performance improvement plan. Correct me if I am wrong.
Please let me know if outside of BK DL has ever reduced the pay scale based on what has happened in the market. I want dates and numbers.

Dunno. BTW, this isn't an "outstation" thing; it's the same story in the hubs. We've discussed cross-utilization before; NW had it pre-BK, and DL doesn't. They'd rather have vendors instead. Shame really. It can be really efficient when done correctly.

Yeah, I know. I read it. That counterpoint was the same boilerplate talking points we always hear. It's like corp comm handed him a sheet to put his name on. Disappointing, really. He's fairly articulate, and really shoulda used his own words.

I didn't say they don't exist; I said they're few and far between, and diminishing with each passing day.

No, Josh’s point shows that DL is indeed converting RRs to FT – they just are not doing it in small stations like yours.
Let’s be real honest, Kev.
You know full well that if you look at the trajectory of DL’s reduction in FT positions in your station that you will likely walk into work one day and they will tell you that you are the last man standing as a FT employee – with all the implications that might have.
I have said it time and time again and you know full well that DL would have never staffed your station and those at the dozen or so other small/medium stations that the IAM won to be kept as mainline staffed below wing. Your interest and 99% of your focus has been in protecting your rarefied bacon because it is an exception not just to DL’s staffing formula but increasingly the way AA and UA and other carriers staff their medium/small airports; the simple fact is that DL continues to staff its hubs and large mainline stations using a healthy proportion of FT employees which includes RR/PT to FT conversions and that is not likely to change – unless the industry as a whole eliminates FT ramp workers – which is not out of the realm of possibility (read on).

Unless they've been told otherwise in the screening and/or interview process. Doesn't help that DL outsources most of that... Frankly, there are also some people in mgmt. at the station level that simply shouldn't be. One of the company's stated goals for 2012 was to "increase bench strength in middle mgmt." We'll see...

And I would still love to see you step forward and do what is necessary to be one of those leaders…. But you have to decide you are willing to accept the systems as it exists enough to be a part of it. Absent your willingness to be a part of the solution, it is hard to condemn others who are making an effort – even if I whole-heartedly agree with you that they are not what the organization wants.

You're kidding right?


You assume I exist in a vacuum.

No I am not kidding (if I were I would put a smiley thing next to my post) and no I do not assume you live in a vacuum… but you also seem to think that you have some privileged position on the truth that no one else can have and that you represent all of the truth. There is clearly a healthy balance on both sides… and healthy conversation is dependent on acknowledging that the other party has a legitimate position.

We've already discussed this in a now closed thread. You know that DL reports FTE's w/o a breakdown of FT/PT/ready Reserve. If a benefitted position ceases to exists, but is backfilled with ready reserves, the overall numbers reported won't reflect that lack of "protection." We've also discussed that I can see that data, and you have acknowledged that you cannot.

You are again trying use a data point to draw a false conclusion in an deliberate attempt to deceive.

It is the STANDARD in American business for employee counts to be reported to FTE’s… DL is doing EXACTLY what the rest of the business world does that uses a combination of FT and PT employees.

If you have data that you have that you seem to think I do not, feel free to let us know. Since you have said that you can’t even see the system seniority list for your department and how bids are filled (likely true), then I doubt you have any access to data that I can’t see.

Further, the DOT still requires US airlines to publish enormous amounts of data that other industries do not have to do and even if you do have access to some data now, it becomes public not to many months later.
My assertion remains – and there is indeed plenty of data to show – that DL has done a better job of protecting the positions of its existing FT employees better than any of its network carrier peers over the past 10 years which has included BK.
The means by which DL has done that is precisely by not continuing to replace FT positions with new FT positions but by using RRs, a practice that you see used to the max degree in your station, specifically because your station would not be one DL would have staffed w/ mainline people.
But they are keeping those former NW medium/small stations mainline staffed by not continuing to replace FT positions as they are vacated – but they are not doing the same thing to the same degree in their large/medium stations.

Your perspective and bias is known and it is not shared by the majority of DL employees, even within your department because a minority of ACS below wing people are in your situation.

Oh, I don't know... Let's see: Work ethic.. pride... the desire to remain continuously employed... Pick one.

What a ridiculously inaccurate assessment. You really have no idea how life at a unionized carrier works, do you?

As for formal evaluations, that's correct. That does *not* mean that were not performance standards that employees were expected to consistently adhere to, and were accountable for.

No, it’s not ridiculous or inaccurate… and I know that unionized companies do have performance standards… but the simple fact is that a periodic written, standardized evaluation system is the most effective way of measuring INDIVIDUAL performance and holding people accountable for what they do or do not do. For that reason, the system is almost universally used in large non-union companies and resisted by unions.

Nothing wrong with adapting; where I draw the line is when that becomes a euphemism for the erosion of middle class standards of living in this country.

I’ll close by saying with absolute certainty that the erosion of the middle class in the United States moved into high gear with the reelection of President Obama and no change in control of the Senate or House. Now that it is a given that ObamaCare will be imposed on the American people, you can be assured that whatever gains the US has made in the past few years in bringing US manufacturing jobs back to the US will all be erased. If the definition of middle class includes FT employment and a benefits package that includes private health insurance, then you will see within the next four years the greatest erosion of the middle class in the history of humanity.
I am not joking and I am not exaggerating.
I don’t generally post political statements on here and am only doing it because of your continued focus on the economic health of the middle class. Your focus is commendable but what you address here is such a small part of the total picture that is happening that it is not possible to respond to the concerns you raise at DL without addressing the much larger issues.
People on here and in America as a whole consistently underestimate how expensive health care really costs overall or to their employers who provide the coverage.
You will see huge segments of the US population that will lose access to private health coverage and even more jobs lost or downgraded from FT to PT with no benefits because of the imposition of government controlled health care. Companies cannot shell out more and more for private insurance and pay higher taxes as well. Private health care coverage will be sacrified. Count on it. And since health care coverage is the largest fringe benefit, the justification will be that FT jobs with benefits will be sacrificed. There will be a huge increase in PT and contract positions where benefits are not part of the equation. You can take that guarantee to the bank.
Those who think the US can add government controlled health care and end up with the same economy as Europe because Europeans have government controlled health care will be severely shocked at how badly the US economy will end up, in part because there are a number of real economic factors that are part of the American economy that do not face Europe that will cause government controlled healthcare to have deep and lasting negative effects that will serve to shrink the American middle class – the largest and most sought-ever in the history of humanity – faster than any other event that has occurred. EVER. WORLDWIDE.
What DL does with FT vacancies in your little station will pale in comparison.

 

[700UW]

Wow, seems Kev touched a nerve.

Funny you seem to know exactly whats going on at DL yet you claim you dont work there.

Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kev touched no nerve at all.

You and he seem to think you have the right to parrot a DL mgmt is bad - union model is the only thing that can save the world mindset when every data point shows that DL is doing a pretty good job on its own (indeed far better than its peers) w/o a union model (which you clearly hate) and its own people recognize that which is why representation elections consistently fail at DL.

What we have consistently seen is not only a denial of those realities but a continual bias for one's personal situation to the detriment of the ability to tell the whole story; the vast majority of DL employees simply don't see the doom and gloom that is posted on here by those who supposedly have access to what really goes on inside DL.

I don't have to spend 40 plus hours per week on DL property to be able to figure that all out.

When those realities are incorporated in what is posted on here, then I will have no reason to continue to participate in this forum.

I have no expectations that I will be able to "retire" from this forum anytime soon.

 

[Kev3188]

To be clear, DL merit employees pay raises are entirely performance (merit) based and are tied to the performance evaluation. It is very possible that a merit employee could receive no salary increase but if that happens, they likely are on a performance improvement plan with definite actions that are required to improve their performance.
Frontline employees, IIRC, also are not eligible for general pay raises if they are on a performance improvement plan. Correct me if I am wrong.

Correct. IIRC, they also get a unilateral increase in base rate anytime frontline employees do, to ensure that they continue to make more than those they're supervising.

Please let me know if outside of BK DL has ever reduced the pay scale based on what has happened in the market. I want dates and numbers.

Didn't say they did. I said it's possible, which is correct.

No, Josh’s point shows that DL is indeed converting RRs to FT – they just are not doing it in small stations like yours.

Not on a large scale basis, and certainly not as much as the company's PR would suggest. They're not doing it in many places (large, small, otherwise) outside of the outlier examples I noted.

I have said it time and time again and you know full well that DL would have never staffed your station and those at the dozen or so other small/medium stations that the IAM won to be kept as mainline staffed below wing. Your interest and 99% of your focus has been in protecting your rarefied bacon because it is an exception not just to DL’s staffing formula but increasingly the way AA and UA and other carriers staff their medium/small airports; the simple fact is that DL continues to staff its hubs and large mainline stations using a healthy proportion of FT employees which includes RR/PT to FT conversions and that is not likely to change – unless the industry as a whole eliminates FT ramp workers – which is not out of the realm of possibility (read on).

More than a dozen, and no, they don't actually staff all "large" stations.

...And as much as you'd like to frame me as someone driven solely by self-interest, it's not that way. My concern is not just for my co-workers sysytem-wide, but for America's working class. Call it naive, idealistic, whatever; just don't call it self-interested.

No I am not kidding (if I were I would put a smiley thing next to my post) and no I do not assume you live in a vacuum… but you also seem to think that you have some privileged position on the truth that no one else can have and that you represent all of the truth.

The only "privilege" I have is that I'm a current employee, and I also happen to have lots of friends across the system in stations of all sizes. It's not my own reality, it's *our* reality.

It is the STANDARD in American business for employee counts to be reported to FTE’s… DL is doing EXACTLY what the rest of the business world does that uses a combination of FT and PT employees.

Yeah, I know. That's nice, except we're talking about DL, and your claim that they "protect" FT jobs better than other carriers. The truth is, with the numbers not publicly broken out, you can't see enough pieces of the puzzle to accurately make that statement. If you are now able to see the breakdown of FT/PT/Ready Reserve, by all means let us know.

Since you have said that you can’t even see the system seniority list for your department and how bids are filled (likely true), then I doubt you have any access to data that I can’t see.

I said I can't see it from home.

No, it’s not ridiculous or inaccurate…

Sure it is; you implied that people merely need be able to fog up a mirror in order to keep working. At best it was pandering to anti-labor stereotypes.

Your focus is commendable but what you address here is such a small part of the total picture that is happening that it is not possible to respond to the concerns you raise at DL without addressing the much larger issues.

Precisely why I noted it being symptomatic of a larger problem.

 

[WorldTraveler]

btw, 700, what is fishy in Denmark is their astronomically high tax rates. Do you realize that taxes and gov't revenues constitute over 57% of the economy, the 9th highest level in the world. They get a lovely gov't health program for that level of taxes.


The US in contrast has an economy based on taxes as 15% of the economy, 191 on the world's list of countries and accompanied in that area of the list only by Singapore among highly developed countries.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2221rank.html?countryName=Denmark&countryCode=da&regionCode=eur&rank=9#dahttps://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2221rank.html?countryName=Denmark&countryCode=da&regionCode=eur&rank=9#da

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out why the US economy works compared to the rest of the world.

back at you, later, Kev.

 

[Kev3188]

Wow, seems Kev touched a nerve.

So it would seem. Unfortunately, passive-aggressive posting seems to be the norm...

back at you, later, Kev.

I can't hardly wait.

 

[700UW]

btw, 700, what is fishy in Denmark is their astronomically high tax rates. Do you realize that taxes and gov't revenues constitute over 57% of the economy, the 9th highest level in the world. They get a lovely gov't health program for that level of taxes.


The US in contrast has an economy based on taxes as 15% of the economy, 191 on the world's list of countries and accompanied in that area of the list only by Singapore among highly developed countries.


https://www.cia.gov/...e=eur&rank=9#dahttps://www.cia.gov/...e=eur&rank=9#da

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out why the US economy works compared to the rest of the world.

back at you, later, Kev.

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course it's off topic because it touches on the issue that government and labor can't make everything right unless of course they saddle the economy with inordinate amounts of debt and work rule restricitions that drive business away....
is Denmark's economy really that much better that it is worth its citizens shelling 4X as much money to the government than Americans do?

And if the answer is no - as any reasonable person would conclude, then it absolutely is relevant when we talk about the cost of health care here and Kev's assertion that DL is leading the decline of the middle class.

It is simply impossible for a company to create a high standard of living for its employees if its gov't continues to create an environment that is hostile to business by saddling it with costs that others do not have to pay.

you like that word passive-aggressive, don't you, Kev?
Apparently just like with the representation debates, you think it is ok for you to be able to make your point but the other side cannot - and can't interject the same emotion that you want to use.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

I'm glad you replied in a spirit of congenial conversation - really, not sarcastically, and that is how we will continue unless you choose to change the tone....

You and 700 seem to assume that because I don't spend 40 plus hours per week at DL that I am disconnected from what is going on.... I'm not.. and again, I can read the data that is publicly available and paints a picture that is not like the one you want to paint. If you want to use data to make your arguments, either use public data, post what you think you can post, or recognize that your arguments will be on the basis of emotion and subjectivity. That is just the reality. And you still have the opportunity to refute the publicly available data... but you haven't - because it doesn't support the story line you want.

800 people converting from RR to FT is more than 7.5% of the current ramp workforce.. that is not an insignificant number and it is larger than the unionized ramp workforce at AS.

What DL has done better than other carriers and will continue to do is to protect the jobs of existing FT employees even in stations they would not have staffed but the cost for giving you the ability to stay where you are is that you as a FT employee will become a rarer and rare entity. At some point it is quite certain that you will no longer have the option to remain as a FT BW employee in your station. It is up to you to have a contingency plan and hope that it will happen at a time when you can qualify for a severance package that will be worth the while for you to change jobs - assuming you don't want to uproot your family - and you clearly want to stay where you are, and I don't blame you.
The option is to make the move to customer contact at the airport where you will likely be able to stay quite a bit longer.

And I absolutely recognize you are focused on a larger group of people than yourself. But your DL specific issues whch you continue to address here do not affect the majority of DL employees.
The issues you raise are ones that have to be addressed at a much larger level, most of which are beyond the realm of Delta Air Lines. I have long said and continue to believe that you COULD make a significant impact in the political realm - but you have to step out of your life here at DL and jump into a much bigger and more complex world and find solutions that will address problems that affect not just you and your fellow DL colleagues -even in small stations - but throughout the US.

I wish you well at those endeavors.

Be assured that I continue to enjoy the opportunity to rationally discuss these issues with you. Genuinely.

 

[Kev3188]

you like that word passive-aggressive, don't you, Kev?
Apparently just like with the representation debates, you think it is ok for you to be able to make your point but the other side cannot - and can't interject the same emotion that you want to use.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Hey, if the shoe fits...

You and 700 seem to assume that because I don't spend 40 plus hours per week at DL that I am disconnected from what is going on.... I'm not.. and again, I can read the data that is publicly available and paints a picture that is not like the one you want to paint.

The one that needs to be painted is the one that takes all relevant data into consideration. You are missing a key component of said info, and therefore can only infer what you think is appropriate to draw an (inaccurate) conclusion.

800 people converting from RR to FT is more than 7.5% of the current ramp workforce.. that is not an insignificant number and it is larger than the unionized ramp workforce at AS.

800 alleged people includes all of ACS, but you already knew that. here's the sentence in question from the article Josh cited:

"More than 800 Ready Reserve employees moved into open full-time jobs in 2011."

Since you specifically noted the ramp, feel free to let us know how many of those were in Dept. 120, and just how much they offset the number of vacated spots.

And I absolutely recognize you are focused on a larger group of people than yourself. But your DL specific issues whch you continue to address here do not affect the majority of DL employees.

Actually, they do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Your * that RR conversions are not just BW is notable and one I did not make... thank you for making that distinction.

I don't know how many of those conversions were for the ramp but if you do and don't want to say, then there is no more overall understanding than from my position.

I am not and have never discounted your perspective... but data does tell a story that is bigger than any one person's perspective. I'm sorry but all of the anecdotal information you have does not change the story if you cannot frame it in some sense of totality. If you told me that "X00 people were walked out in the last year because of undocumented issues which DL said they had addressed w/ the unemployee" then you have something of a case.

But I have consistently used data that does tell the whole picture, even if it does not show all of the details. You want to disregard the big picture because it doesn't match the details you have.

Doesn't mean your details are wrong or that I doubt them... they just are not large enough to alter the big picture for which there is abundant data.

And it still comes down to the fact that, at the core of the issue, I don't disagree for a minute w/ your assertion that DL is engaging in a slow but systematic downgrading of ramp work from FT to RR and contract.... but all work, just like DL's toilet paper suppliers, are part of a market for which DL like every other company - must evaluate the cost effectiveness of what they do relative to other - cheaper alternatives.

I sympathize with you staring at X more years in order to finish a career w/ that reality in front of you - but it doesn't change the fact that knowing that reality, you MUST act to ensure the future you want or be content to accept what is put in front of you.

You are smart, resourceful, and proactive enough to know you have thought about these realities.....

I'm just not sure why if you have a plan B and C, why you are so preoccupied w/ an eventuality that is not goign to be moved by all we write on this forum but in all likelihood by issues well above both of our levels... and which you from your vantage point, COULD possibly change at some higher level.
Or you could accept that things will change and your best course of action is to make sure you are well-positioned to personally win, regardless of what happens around you.

It is my desire that you once again land squarely on your feet and win in the midst of the turbulence that will most certainly continue to be part of the airline industry, even if DL navigates it better than its peers.

 

[737823]

With all this discussion of RRs moving to FT positions, without having access to personnel records its very difficult to say if 800 people really did move up or not. I can understand why you maybe suspicious of DL's claim particularly with it being a response to an article in newspaper but without surveying every RR and FT employee at DL or having access to personnel records its very difficult to know. My firm generally publishes promotions both at my office, other offices in the US and abroad. The thing is it doesn't include all promotions, and you never have the full picture of why someone got promoted, under what grounds, terms, etc. Again, this is a difference between the culture of CBAs and seniority lists and at-will employment. Kev will call CBA transparency and accountability and I will grant that to an extent but it still is not completely fair and objective.

As we discussed before Kev says DL has an internal target of maintaining 50% RR staffing. Is this total headcount? Total hours? Total spend? Annual hiring? What is the basis of this? DL of course can change this target at anytime they see fit, some stations may have more RRs and other have less. What specific functions do RRs serve? Gate agents, ticket counter, SkyClub, baggage services? Aren't those different classifications and pay grades too?

My point is there may not be as many RR to FT movements as Kev and others want but it is untrue and insincere to say they do not exist.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

With all this discussion of RRs moving to FT positions, without having access to personnel records its very difficult to say if 800 people really did move up or not. I can understand why you maybe suspicious of DL's claim particularly with it being a response to an article in newspaper but without surveying every RR and FT employee at DL or having access to personnel records its very difficult to know.

W/O access to various editions of seniority lists to compare/contrast, I'd say it's almost impossible. I can see them, but it's not a link posted on the front of the company webpage like other groups have.

My firm generally publishes promotions both at my office, other offices in the US and abroad.

We used to have that as well. Refer to Airlinelifer's earlier post; he put it much more succinctly than I could've. All movement- lateral or promotion was posted. There's no reason why DL can't set it up to do the same.

BTW, for lateral transfers (ie from ramp in BOS to ramp in, say, HNL), seniority is always the deciding factor. That's per the company, not me. The only kicker is if a candidate has active discipline on file. That was the same story at NW, BTW.

The thing is it doesn't include all promotions, and you never have the full picture of why someone got promoted, under what grounds, terms, etc. Again, this is a difference between the culture of CBAs and seniority lists and at-will employment. Kev will call CBA transparency and accountability and I will grant that to an extent but it still is not completely fair and objective.

With transparency comes information, and with information comes power. DL likes to hoard as much of that as possible. There is absolutely NO legitimate business reason not to post awards for everyone to see. None. If it's too costly to implement, then *maybe*, but given what I'm describing, it'd be tea in the ocean Cap-Ex wise...

As we discussed before Kev says DL has an internal target of maintaining 50% RR staffing. Is this total headcount? Total hours? Total spend? Annual hiring? What is the basis of this? DL of course can change this target at anytime they see fit, some stations may have more RRs and other have less. What specific functions do RRs serve? Gate agents, ticket counter, SkyClub, baggage services? Aren't those different classifications and pay grades too?

AFAIK, straight up headcount. RR's are in every function you listed, plus the ramp (obviously), the tower (in at least one city), and GSE maintenance. The Ready Reserve pay scale is the same for all of those positions.

Gate, ticket counter, and baggage service are all under the same dept., FWIW...

My point is there may not be as many RR to FT movements as Kev and others want but it is untrue and insincere to say they do not exist.

Dunno if you are directing that at me or Roach, but again, I didn't say that- only that there is a lot less movement than the company would like people to think.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kev,
even if it is 800 people in all of ACS which is 20K employees or more, that is still 4% on annual basis... not exactly a small number.

The problem once again is it is not where you want to see it and the RR program as you note touches all areas of ACS - you would clearly like to have a corner of your world which is "FT only, all others wait outside."

The reason why the RR program exists in every area is because it allows DL the flexibility to staff the operation at peak levels when it needs to do so and operate with a much smaller group of a higher proportion of FT employees during the off-peak periods.
Like it or not, it is DL's ability to match staffing levels to passenger demand that drives the program. Given that passenger demand even during a work day is not consistent, there is a need to bring in extra hands at certain periods of the day. Your FT people in your station undoubtedly start before the PT/RRs and are joined by them later in the day, right?

And it still comes down to that DL can find people who will accept PT or RR jobs w/ little to no benefits to do the job - and it is EXACTLY what companies do to seek out the lowest cost solution for whatever expense they must make.

If RRs weren't so good at what they do or FT employees delivered much more for their expense, then the decision to use more FT employees would be easy to make.

Note also that the expected pilot demand and the need to increase pilot salaries - a direct economic reality - means that DL will cut other costs - and it is not at all unreasonable to expect DK will cut costs where it most is able to do so. UA's new contract shows along w/ the cuts AA is making in their ACS plus WN's changes show that airport ramp operations even among the biggest airlines are changing.

Finally, as much as you may or may not be a numbers person, the source of much of our debates for years has been that you don't want to accept the numbers that are out there... the discussion regarding the 800 conversions above is a perfect example.
If data doesn't fit what you believe to be the truth, then you have the choice to either come up with your own data or to resort to a non-data/subjective discussion, which means that the other party does control the facts. Everyone can understand that there is a certain amount of movement in ACS so DL's quote of 800 is a relevant statistic. It is fine to point out that the number is not just on the ramp, but you cannot say the number is not valid unless you supply one of your own.
Data is indeed powerful - and the company does not have to provide parts of it to employees in a non-union environment. Given that your prime use of the data would be to show that the ramp FT numbers continue to hire, that is not a number they want to show - but I have told you here that not only I expect it is true but that it may accelerate.
The choice once again is to figure out how you survive and thrive despite those changes and IF you think there really are things you can do to change the outcome, then take the steps necessary to do so. But recognize fully that in all likelihood the train has well left the station with respect to degradation of the BW FT ramp workforce and there are genuine economic reasons outside of DL's control that have to be addressed before DL is likely to change its plans w/ respect to the RR program, esp. BW.

Good luck and the best to you in your efforts.

 

[Kev3188]

The reason why the RR program exists in every area is because it allows DL the flexibility to staff the operation at peak levels when it needs to do so and operate with a much smaller group of a higher proportion of FT employees during the off-peak periods.

That was the program's original espoused theory; it is not the theory in use.

Like it or not, it is DL's ability to match staffing levels to passenger demand that drives the program. Given that passenger demand even during a work day is not consistent, there is a need to bring in extra hands at certain periods of the day. Your FT people in your station undoubtedly start before the PT/RRs and are joined by them later in the day, right?

No.

Note also that the expected pilot demand and the need to increase pilot salaries - a direct economic reality - means that DL will cut other costs - and it is not at all unreasonable to expect DK will cut costs where it most is able to do so. UA's new contract shows along w/ the cuts AA is making in their ACS plus WN's changes show that airport ramp operations even among the biggest airlines are changing.

Not entirely out of the realm. There's talk that the cut in profit sharing was used to fund their raises. If true, so be it. You get what you negotiate.

Data is indeed powerful - and the company does not have to provide parts of it to employees in a non-union environment. Given that your prime use of the data would be to show that the ramp FT numbers continue to hire, that is not a number they want to show - but I have told you here that not only I expect it is true but that it may accelerate.

So which is it; DL "protects existing FT jobs better than other carriers," or that the numbers of benefitted employeeswill continue to decline (accelerate)? You can't have it both ways.

The choice once again is to figure out how you survive and thrive despite those changes and IF you think there really are things you can do to change the outcome, then take the steps necessary to do so.

Already on it. Thanks.

Good luck and the best to you in your efforts.

Whatever.

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, I offered a genuine expression of good will.....

yes, DL HAS and likely will protect its current FT employees better than other carriers. You are reading about the cuts AA is imposing on their ramp personnel... and they won't be alone.

There will be a continued erosion of FT permanent ground jobs at all airlines - and some of that will be driven not just by DL's decisions but by much bigger issues.

I don't doubt the RR program has grown beyond its original goals... but it still provides the flexible staffing that DL uses to match passenger demand w/ staffing... and it is precisely that ability that allows DL to not burn $3/gal jet fuel unless it makes very good sense to do so.

And the RR program still allows DL to honor the commitments it made to FT employees like you....

Yes, I've read what the pilots have said about their profit sharing cuts and pay raises... but the AA and UA pilots still keep saying that they want what DL has, even while at the same time citing what the DL pilots gave away in scope in order to get those raises.

all the best, really.