Merger "facts"
- Thread starter Ukridge
- Start date
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
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wts54,wts54 said:
AND THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE SO MISTAKEN. Don't make assumptions about the USAirways employees. We don't think like UAL or AA.
We honor contracts and our scope, and if U would buy UAL, they would slot in by seniority just as our Constitution reads. There is no such thing as stapling. We don't behave that way, and our Constitution and Bylaws dictate and govern us.
Well Fly that was quite an incoherent posting.Fly said:... If you come here, you'll soon despise them as much as we do (and you'll see why we have been so scared about a merger with U and why we are actively trying to get rid of AFA). They (the UAL AFA) has one purpose...to use our dues to try to make AFA bigger. They violate our contract themselvesand refuse to represent us because they are the ones doing the violating. I trust United more than the AFA here...you'll see! (Pit, not trying to flame you.....go ask Int'l about the closing of the Taipai base, k? Wow, how did those incredibly junior TPE f/a's manage to get those int'l HKG and NRT bases when people senior on the seniority list were trying to get in there AND the contract clearly states that ALL transfers must be done in seniority? gee, I don't know...could it be that those f/a's had to stay in Asia because they couldn't get work visas for the states? Could it be that AFA would lose the easy "Yes" votes and $39 per month? Is that why they (AFA) refuse to answer that question at AFA meetings? <_< )
Light - ohhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm
Just for the record, I and many of my colleagues (UA F/As) are very glad we have had AFA representation, especially over the past couple of years. And for any neutral observers, I won't bother to get into a tit for tat argument with Fly, but suffice it to say much of her/his info about the goings-on at AFA/UAL is about as accurate as her/his belief that AFA/U still has a no-furlough clause.
Fly you seem quite miserable. I hope flying with you isn't as painful as reading your postings. If you are so miserable with a union, there are quite a few non-union F/A options out there you have been free to explore over the years. But, seeing as how you have stuck with UA for 18 years, might I suggest that the only reason you have found it bearable to be here this long is because of the work your union has done on your behalf over the decades.
Bear...you have a PM.
Please try to contain yourself next time. roflmaoooo You LIKE the representation from AFA? omg....what part? The 10 year contract with no raises that no one admits voting for? The one we surprisingly "voted in" by 51% that we took when United was making hand over fist? The one that the AFA told us was the "best" we were going to get? The one we got right before the pilots received their industry leading contract? Get real! Do you fly? or sit in an AFA office? Even our reps are disgusted with AFA Int'l. I sent you some links to private UAL forums...you go take a look, then tell everyone here that the rank and file are happy.
Of course I would have sent ALL of this to you privately, but you decided to publicly air it.
btw, why should I want to work in a different job just because I am forced into this lousy union? I know I could do a crappy job and they still couldn't fire me because my union would never let that happen but I actually do a good job. I've read what Pit, Dea and Light Years have written about the balance unions bring to companies and commend THEIR union for trying to maintain the status quo in such an awful period in aviation. I don't believe the AFA Int'l is as quite on the up and up.
Next time you want to bash me, ask yourself this....Why are we forced to stay in the union? Why can't we quit? (oh yes, I know, we CAN quit...we just have to keep paying the dues) :down:
Oh Bear - hope I'm the Qualified Purser on your flight real soon That would be fun! 
MEOW
Please try to contain yourself next time. roflmaoooo You LIKE the representation from AFA? omg....what part? The 10 year contract with no raises that no one admits voting for? The one we surprisingly "voted in" by 51% that we took when United was making hand over fist? The one that the AFA told us was the "best" we were going to get? The one we got right before the pilots received their industry leading contract? Get real! Do you fly? or sit in an AFA office? Even our reps are disgusted with AFA Int'l. I sent you some links to private UAL forums...you go take a look, then tell everyone here that the rank and file are happy.
Of course I would have sent ALL of this to you privately, but you decided to publicly air it.
btw, why should I want to work in a different job just because I am forced into this lousy union? I know I could do a crappy job and they still couldn't fire me because my union would never let that happen but I actually do a good job. I've read what Pit, Dea and Light Years have written about the balance unions bring to companies and commend THEIR union for trying to maintain the status quo in such an awful period in aviation. I don't believe the AFA Int'l is as quite on the up and up.
Next time you want to bash me, ask yourself this....Why are we forced to stay in the union? Why can't we quit? (oh yes, I know, we CAN quit...we just have to keep paying the dues) :down:
Oh Bear - hope I'm the Qualified Purser on your flight real soon
That would be fun! MEOW
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PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
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C'mon on Fly....
I just came over to your boards for a quick visit, you can kick me in the teeth anytime I know you hear this all the time and at the risk of sounding redundant ad nauseum, the members are AFA. If you feel your leaders have no talent, care enough to organzie your group to get rid of them. WE did that at U 3 years ago. Just as your work force organized themselves to bring in a union, they have much power to change the "landscape". Don't complain, run for election. At that level, you can at the very least, persuade your group to make change.
I just came over to your boards for a quick visit, you can kick me in the teeth anytime
I know you hear this all the time and at the risk of sounding redundant ad nauseum, the members are AFA. If you feel your leaders have no talent, care enough to organzie your group to get rid of them. WE did that at U 3 years ago. Just as your work force organized themselves to bring in a union, they have much power to change the "landscape". Don't complain, run for election. At that level, you can at the very least, persuade your group to make change.
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
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skyflyr69 said:
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
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- 0
WRONGinsp89 said:Be careful what you ask for hotshot, you just may get it. What's your seniority number ? ? I thought so.wts54 said:
US Airways merged the Piedmont, PSA, and the Trump F/A's their date of hire seniority. We even gave the former Trump F/A's from Eastern their date of hire from EAL because those were the terms when Trump bought the Shuttle.
So please don't talk to us about shoes. Our shoes have been slippers where this issue is concerned. The way the UAL f/a's on this line conduct themselves concerning this issue shows me they walk in hard, wooden, uncomfortable shoes... The EXACT reason I hope we never, EVER merge with you guys.
WRONG
US Airways merged the Piedmont, PSA, and the Trump F/A's their date of hire seniority. We even gave the former Trump F/A's from Eastern their date of hire from EAL because those were the terms when Trump bought the Shuttle.
So please don't talk to us about shoes. Our shoes have been slippers where this issue is concerned. The way the UAL f/a's on this line conduct themselves concerning this issue shows me they walk in hard, wooden, uncomfortable shoes... The EXACT reason I hope we never, EVER merge with you guys.
Well the feeling is mutual,but nonetheless there wont be any U/UA merger.It
will be more like a fire sale.
US Airways merged the Piedmont, PSA, and the Trump F/A's their date of hire seniority. We even gave the former Trump F/A's from Eastern their date of hire from EAL because those were the terms when Trump bought the Shuttle.
So please don't talk to us about shoes. Our shoes have been slippers where this issue is concerned. The way the UAL f/a's on this line conduct themselves concerning this issue shows me they walk in hard, wooden, uncomfortable shoes... The EXACT reason I hope we never, EVER merge with you guys.
Well the feeling is mutual,but nonetheless there wont be any U/UA merger.It
will be more like a fire sale.
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
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Let's keep in mind that this is an internet board filled with extreme, bitter, and angry opinions... not everyone feels the way some express here. Thankfully, MOST of us that do disagree are able to discuss things maturely...
I know plenty of UAL F/As who are happy with the AFA and respect the constitution and by-laws they and thier predeccessors worked so hard for. That said, while the general feeling at US has always been DOH in any merger or acquisition, I'm sure there are some who feel different. To each his own.
I was on an Airbus trip shortly after the Shuttle had fully integrated in to mainline. The other two flight attendants had been in the same class.... at Eastern Air Lines. One had gone to the Shuttle with Donald Trump and kept EAL seniority. The other had stayed with EAL until the end, and then started over at USAir. When Trump sold the Shuttle to USAir, the F/As kept thier seniority. When Shuttle Inc fully merged into US Airways, they kept that same seniority that went all the way back to Eastern. If I'm not mistaken, the number one US F/A became number two.
So here was two flight attendants who began thier careers together but had significantly different seniority (a few years) at the same company years later. Was the F/A from USAir bitter towards her former classmate? No, they had a great time catching up... Neither of them ever thought they would be at US Airways, one chose US after EA, one ended up there more senior simply by being bought and sold numerous times. They even joked about who they might run into at United (this was during the merger time). It just goes to show that we can't predict where we end up. I'm sure those pretty, California-girl PSA stewardesses never thought they would be flying transatlantic flights for an east coast carrier with little western presence, just as those Pan Am stews never thought they'd see a 737 to Omaha. Our uniforms, aircrafts, and identities change, but we don't. The only thing we have to hang onto is our seniority.
Another thing worth hanging onto is brotherhood and respect for our peers, no matter where thier paycheck comes from. Let's hope our wonderful industry and it's wonderful people bounce back, and hope for less heartbreak and ruin rather than for more.
I know plenty of UAL F/As who are happy with the AFA and respect the constitution and by-laws they and thier predeccessors worked so hard for. That said, while the general feeling at US has always been DOH in any merger or acquisition, I'm sure there are some who feel different. To each his own.
I was on an Airbus trip shortly after the Shuttle had fully integrated in to mainline. The other two flight attendants had been in the same class.... at Eastern Air Lines. One had gone to the Shuttle with Donald Trump and kept EAL seniority. The other had stayed with EAL until the end, and then started over at USAir. When Trump sold the Shuttle to USAir, the F/As kept thier seniority. When Shuttle Inc fully merged into US Airways, they kept that same seniority that went all the way back to Eastern. If I'm not mistaken, the number one US F/A became number two.
So here was two flight attendants who began thier careers together but had significantly different seniority (a few years) at the same company years later. Was the F/A from USAir bitter towards her former classmate? No, they had a great time catching up... Neither of them ever thought they would be at US Airways, one chose US after EA, one ended up there more senior simply by being bought and sold numerous times. They even joked about who they might run into at United (this was during the merger time). It just goes to show that we can't predict where we end up. I'm sure those pretty, California-girl PSA stewardesses never thought they would be flying transatlantic flights for an east coast carrier with little western presence, just as those Pan Am stews never thought they'd see a 737 to Omaha. Our uniforms, aircrafts, and identities change, but we don't. The only thing we have to hang onto is our seniority.
Another thing worth hanging onto is brotherhood and respect for our peers, no matter where thier paycheck comes from. Let's hope our wonderful industry and it's wonderful people bounce back, and hope for less heartbreak and ruin rather than for more.
trollydolly
Member
- Sep 3, 2002
- 49
- 0
I have been holding back on making any comments regarding this topic, but at this point, I can no longer remain silent.
I fully believe that IF UAL was being bought by U, that it would be absolutely ludicrous for me to expect my 100% UAL seniority. Perhaps 50% would be a bit fairer to the people at U that chose U over UAL. I personally did not choose any other airline to apply to, but UAL, and for me to walk over to U and say goodbye to the junior flight attendants who chose to be with U is absolutely self serving and all about me, me, me, and lets forget about you. Think about it… 100% seniority, with no blood sweat or tears poured into the company that is the survivor. Then here comes senior mama from UAL, and walla, the employee who was actually hired by U has their walking shoes. Where is that fair?
Oh wait, I forgot, it is all about me.
I fully believe that IF UAL was being bought by U, that it would be absolutely ludicrous for me to expect my 100% UAL seniority. Perhaps 50% would be a bit fairer to the people at U that chose U over UAL. I personally did not choose any other airline to apply to, but UAL, and for me to walk over to U and say goodbye to the junior flight attendants who chose to be with U is absolutely self serving and all about me, me, me, and lets forget about you. Think about it… 100% seniority, with no blood sweat or tears poured into the company that is the survivor. Then here comes senior mama from UAL, and walla, the employee who was actually hired by U has their walking shoes. Where is that fair?
Oh wait, I forgot, it is all about me.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
I am a United flight attendant, but began my airline career with PSA in Concord, CA. I worked through two mergers; USAir in 1988 and Piedmont in 1989. In both instances, date-of-hire seniority prevailed. I have watched from a distance the events that have transpired over at American with regard to the TWA folks. I believe that the bylaws in place at AFA with regard to D-O-H are very appropriate.
In my experience, regardless of the paint job you started with, years of service is the fairest way to integrate the work groups. What many fail to realize is that when one carrier acquires another, they inherit the flying as well (planes, route systems).
D-O-H was very successful at USAir (actually the only successful part of both mergers). I don't have much hope that the TWA employees will prevail in their court fight, but I personally do believe the an employee with 30 years of service should become unemployed before a junior employee at the surviving carrier.
Signed,
One Happily Furloughed F/A
Proud AFA Member
In my experience, regardless of the paint job you started with, years of service is the fairest way to integrate the work groups. What many fail to realize is that when one carrier acquires another, they inherit the flying as well (planes, route systems).
D-O-H was very successful at USAir (actually the only successful part of both mergers). I don't have much hope that the TWA employees will prevail in their court fight, but I personally do believe the an employee with 30 years of service should become unemployed before a junior employee at the surviving carrier.
Signed,
One Happily Furloughed F/A
Proud AFA Member
JAMAKE1
Veteran
The last sentence should have read, "should NOT become unemployed..."
Oh and I guess UAL with it’s 3billion will just buy what ever it wants …….Are you kidding me UAL is trying to get a loan and I would bet that it would need to have at least that much cash on hand just to keep the government happy. Why so negative heck U might buy UAL how much was that loss 475million maybe U won’t take UAL employees....... just business......... if you think that way you should keep your comments to your self…….wts54 said:
Union solidarity ever heard of that………………………..
Speaking of terminally ill..... UAL is the next room on life support ass well so I would be careful ............
