Merged Thoughts

[USA320Pilot]

Another interesting point about this discussion is that Seth Schofield – Gerry Greenwald, Stephen Wolf – Jim Goodwin, & Dave Siegel – Glenn Tilton have not asked me their opinion on a corporate transaction between the two companies.

Each set of chief executives has attempted or completed a corporate transaction between the two companies, but up to this point none have pulled off the merger.

Will it occur? Maybe, maybe not, but I am certain that if the airlines had combined in 1996, neither airline would have entered bankruptcy, and the very real possibility of United selling more assets and becoming an even smaller carrier would not exist today.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Bear96]

Another interesting point about this discussion is that Seth Schofield – Gerry Greenwald, Stephen Wolf – Jim Goodwin, & Dave Siegel – Glenn Tilton have not asked me their opinion on a corporate transaction between the two companies.

Each set of chief executives has attempted or completed a corporate transaction between the two companies, but up to this point none have pulled off the merger.

Will it occur? Maybe, maybe not, but I am certain that if the airlines had combined in 1996, neither airline would have entered bankruptcy, and the very real possibility of United selling more assets and becoming an even smaller carrier would not exist today.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Good thing (as you keep telling us, again and again) you don't gratuitously mention UA or its possible demise as often as possible.

And it must be nice living in a world where apparently only UA (and not U) is faced with "the very real possibility of selling more assets and becoming an even smaller carrier."

 

[767jetz]

USA320 said: "Let's put some things into perspective, which happened before you were hired at ALPA."

767jetz responds: First of all I was never "hired" by APLA. I work for United Airlines, buddy. Second, how on earth do you know how long I have been an ALPA member? I'll give you a hint... A lot longer than my time at UA.
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USA320 said: "...change ALPA Merger Policy from date of hire to the new policy, which calls for an arbitrated list in the future."

767jetz responds: So by your own words you agree that date-of-hire is no longer ALPA's merger policy, and therefore, UA pilots were just following the rules and NOT "trying to obtain super seniority." So to summarize again, your claims of bypassing ALPA merger policy are incorrect since the merger policy calls for an arbitrated list which follows specific guidleines to include CAREER EXPECTATIONS. Thank you for finally admitting that you are wrong.
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USA320 said: "I have made significantly more money at US Airways than if I elected to return to United."

767jetz responds: Nobody asked about your income, and I don't really care. But since you brought the subject up, I will say it's an interesting play on words buddy. Well if you had returned to UA and started at the bottom again I can see how you would have made less. But I think we all know that if you had never left in the first place you'd be flying your beloved 777 and would have made alot more. Sounds like buyers remorse to me.
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Now, back to sleep...

As I said before... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

YYYYYYYYYYYYAWN!

Are we there yet?

 

[firstamendment]

The Future!

You know, fly, if you and 767jetz don't like what a certain captain is saying, nobody is making you hop over to the US board to read or to smear your venom. Over on the UAL board, you spread the UAL kool-aide and that's fine, but if you have nothing but hate for you know who, please send him personal emails, because your BS here fighting him is as old and tired as his merger theories, so please dialogue something new and perhaps intelligent...and you too 767jetz.

 

[Fly]

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Fly @ Feb 28 2004, 02:06 AM)
The Future!


You know, fly, if you and 767jetz don't like what a certain captain is saying, nobody is making you hop over to the US board to read or to smear your venom.

You're right! No one is making me. I do it because I can. B) You see, the US board is NOT owned by US, therefore, ANYONE who chooses may use the board.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

What's interesting about this thread is that my initial post never mentioned United Airlines, but as soon as I cut and pasted comments by David Bronner and Dave Siegel -- in traditional fashion within minutes of my post -- some United employees jumped all over the thread, even though their company was not mentioned.

Why are the United employees commenting on the US Airways board on a topic that did not address their company, until the United employees interjected UAL into the discussion?

Again, the majority of my initial post was cut and pasted recent information from US Airways' top two officers, which was purposely inserted into an interview and speech.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

I believe that UAL employees interject here because you have, on numerous occasions implied that USAirways/RSA will be buying United (or certain UA assets) and I believe that you have even stated that USAirways would be the surviving entity, which most UA employees view as something along the lines of Joe's Hot Dog Stand buying/taking over McDonalds.

Granted you have not mentioned that RSA/USAirways will be aquiring the assets of United specifically this time, would you care to speculate on what US/RSA might be interested in purchasing? USAirways is probably having problems purchasing office supplies at the present time, and the airline assets RSA chief is talking about may be shares in Southwest, afterall he does run a retirement fund and is probably looking for a good return on investment.

 

[firstamendment]

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Fly @ Feb 28 2004, 02:06 AM)
The Future!


You know, fly, if you and 767jetz don't like what a certain captain is saying, nobody is making you hop over to the US board to read or to smear your venom.

You're right! No one is making me. I do it because I can. B) You see, the US board is NOT owned by US, therefore, ANYONE who chooses may use the board.

Fly, you react with emotion every time you open your mouth.

You're right and nobody is telling you you can't come over to the US board, but when you complain about Mr Munn coming to your boards to talk about issues, you act like a child about it, but it is ok for you to come over here and act like an idiot? That is hypocritical. Nobody owns the boards and I would challenge you to take a look at some of the immature remarks you have made. I know we all get passionate, but your postings suggest you have major issues with US Airways. I don't understand why you waste your time over here. You have nothing of substance to contribute to US Airways and you show no compassion, care, or concern about this company or anyone who works here.

Sounds like there is an enjoyment in antagonizing and p****** people off. There are enough naysayers without bitter UAL employees adding to it.

 

[AAviator]

http://www.planebusiness.com/perspectives/...1099jester.html

Some of the good captain's earlier work. AMAZING similarities

 

[TheLarkAscending]

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM

firstamendment Posted on Feb 28 2004, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Fly @ Feb 28 2004, 02:06 AM)
The Future!


You know, fly, if you and 767jetz don't like what a certain captain is saying, nobody is making you hop over to the US board to read or to smear your venom.

You're right! No one is making me. I do it because I can. B) You see, the US board is NOT owned by US, therefore, ANYONE who chooses may use the board.

Fly, you react with emotion every time you open your mouth.

You're right and nobody is telling you you can't come over to the US board, but when you complain about Mr Munn coming to your boards to talk about issues, you act like a child about it, but it is ok for you to come over here and act like an idiot? That is hypocritical. Nobody owns the boards and I would challenge you to take a look at some of the immature remarks you have made. I know we all get passionate, but your postings suggest you have major issues with US Airways. I don't understand why you waste your time over here. You have nothing of substance to contribute to US Airways and you show no compassion, care, or concern about this company or anyone who works here.

Sounds like there is an enjoyment in antagonizing and p****** people off. There are enough naysayers without bitter UAL employees adding to it.

Fly has friends at US and cares very much what happens to US. Fly has every right to read, write, agree, disagree, debate, defend and support any issues just the same as anyone else.

One way or another the issues at US are not because of Fly or Fly's posts.

 

[767jetz]

I believe that UAL employees interject here because you have, on numerous occasions implied that USAirways/RSA will be buying United (or certain UA assets) and I believe that you have even stated that USAirways would be the surviving entity, which most UA employees view as something along the lines of Joe's Hot Dog Stand buying/taking over McDonalds.

Excellent analogy.

He may not say United Airlines, But anyone who has read his garbage for long enough knows exactly who he is reffering to when he says things like "US could be the surviving entity," or "US will move assets westward." It's been said so often in his posts that it now goes without saying.

 

[767jetz]

http://www.planebusiness.com/perspectives/...1099jester.html

Some of the good captain's earlier work. AMAZING similarities

Great find! Where did you dig that up?

Obviously more of the esteemed captain's "reliable sources."

 

[savyinvestor]

If you would have posted this information before I would not have hounded you!

It makes more sense now and frankly I agree with you about the UAL pilots wanting the entire ball of wax, and that NOT being right or fair in the least. Wow talk about Karma!

CAV,

Before you jump on his bandwagon and buy his BS, let me clarify a few things.

UA pilots did not want what he refers to as "Super Seniority."

ALPA merger policy clearly states that groups will be merged according to CAREER EXPECTAIONS. The words "Date of Hire" are sepcifically absent from the policy.

At the time, UA (which was owned by the employees... paid for with our very own $$$) was in good shape and it appeared US needed a dance partner to survive long term. UA was PURCHASING another airline with my money. (Mine and every other employee who bought UA.)

Career expectations at the time meant a US pilot was never expecting to fly anything bigger than a 757/767 (maybe), and more probably nothing bigger than a 737. Of course UA pilots knew that if it went through there would be many years, even decades of law suits (Much like when TWA bought Ozark.) This would drive the company into the ground and destroy the huge investment (in actual dollars) that we all made in the company.

Therfore to avoid the hassles, avoid the law suits, and protect our investment, we insisted on a prenuptual agreement. This was to assure ALPA policy of career expectations was premptively agreed upon and upheld, and to eliminate the inevitable future law suits. After all, we had the right and the power to do so as employees who paid for said right with our own money and were using our own money to PURCHASE and asset.

Now as for the animosity between UA and US employees, I for one saw the benefits of an aquisition, even though I thought the price was too high. And I held no ill will to my counterparts at US. Until on several occasions I personally had the opportunity to ride a US jumpseat and listened to hours of lecture on why any merger will be date-of-hire. I even had one 737-200 captain explicitly claim rights to a 767 Captain slot in San Francisco! And according to him, possibly the 777!

So don't believe everything a certain US pilot on this board tells you. He does not discriminate about which facts he spins and twist.

I don't want to fan the flames, but at the time of the UAL/U proposed merger I had a U 737 captain tell me almost the same thing. He expected to go to a 757 immediately and eventually a 777. Savy

 

[Fly]

Thanks Lark....it's true, I do have friends at U and I don't wish ill will on the employees at U. Normally, my buddies and I sit around and laugh (cuz there's not a whole lot else we can do about our situation) and just hope that ALL of us will have jobs in a year. Funny, 3 years ago we sat around comparing who flew where and how long the fence would stay up. Times change!

 

[Winglet]

A US Air and UAL merger will make the AA-TWA seniority integration look like a big birthday party. Just like the AA -TWA asset buy . . . . AA pilots were worried and apprehensive (for good reason) about acquiring a dead-in-the-water company like TWA, while at TWA there were whoops and hollars of joy when the acquisition was announced. I think the exact same thing would be true of a U - UAL merger. Whoops of joy from U pilots and "oh, sh**s from UAL pilots.

 

[Atlantic]

D.O.H., with seat protection.