Merged Thoughts

[etops1]

you know in the begining when i first started posting i read chip's posting's and i found them interesting. it sounded like it all made sense. now its like a broken record. chip please stop. if we merge then we merge if we don't we don't. you may be right on all this but people just don't want to hear it any more. i for one am for a united usairways merger but please stop bringing it up all the time. it gets old buddy. we all know you want to work for ual . we all know you want to fly the big jets. well maybe that may come true for you . but for know ,just leave it alone. united employees don't want to hear that. all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire and creating animositiy between u&ual employees. and if we do merge its gonna be a mess because everyone will hate eachother. i am not saying that it will be your fualt . but your postings do contribute. so my friend , and i say this with the upmost respect. please stop. let us read what seigel and bronner say for ourselves and let us make our own conclusions as to what it all means. i ma sure your a good man and you mean well but its not helping the cause. B)

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

Cav asked: Let me ask you this, why do the UAL guys hate you so much? What are they afraid of, or what's eating them? I really want to know!

USA320Pilot comments: Prior to their bankruptcy CBA, the United pilots have always demanded super seniority in any corporate transaction with US Airways. In my opinion, the United pilots believe they are better than the US Airways pilots because they have more widebody aircraft on their property, which pay more than narrowbody's.

This all started in 1995 when Gerry Greenwald called all of the leaders of every US Air union to Chicago for a meeting. At that meeting the US Airways unions were told that for the deal to proceed there would be a reduction in the scope of US Airways, across-the-board US Airways employee furloughs, and the United employees would receive a no furlough clause, and we would have to agree to a pre-nuptial seniority agreement, before the deal would proceed.

That's when the United employees had ESOP control.

For my work group, we would furlough about 20% of the pilots (1,000 out of about 5,000 active pilots) and we were going to see US Airways aircraft removed from service such as the F-28s, DC-9's, and MD-80s.

Well...our MEC told them we would not agree to these terms and the deal died.

Then in 2000, United ALPA tried to force another pre-nuptial agreement across the table, but this time Stephen Wolf rejected the proposal as unfair prior to the formal merger offer.

My point is simple, the United pilot group continues to try and bypass ALAP Merger Policy to obtain super seniority and they know that if there is a UCT, the US Airways pilot group will remember what the United pilots tried to do to the US Airways pilots and they are scared to death that RSA's deep pockets could cause a UCT to proceed and turnabout could be fair play.

Cav, what goes around could come around and there is nothing I can do that will stop it because once they were in bankruptcy, the pilots now want ALPA Merger * Fragmentation Policy because they are scared they could see their assets sold without an employee transfer. Ironic…isn’t it.

In fact, the new United ALPA Merger & Fragmentation language matches the US Airways ALPA agreement verbatim.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

you know in the begining when i first started posting i read chip's posting's and i found them interesting. it sounded like it all made sense. now its like a broken record. chip please stop. if we merge then we merge if we don't we don't. you may be right on all this but people just don't want to hear it any more. i for one am for a united usairways merger but please stop bringing it up all the time. it gets old buddy. we all know you want to work for ual . we all know you want to fly the big jets. well maybe that may come true for you . but for know ,just leave it alone. united employees don't want to hear that. all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire and creating animositiy between u&ual employees. and if we do merge its gonna be a mess because everyone will hate eachother. i am not saying that it will be your fualt . but your postings do contribute. so my friend , and i say this with the upmost respect. please stop. let us read what seigel and bronner say for ourselves and let us make our own conclusions as to what it all means. i ma sure your a good man and you mean well but its not helping the cause. B)

I basically told him the same thing and his reply was...

Don’t read my topics then.

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

Cav asked: Let me ask you this, why do the UAL guys hate you so much? What are they afraid of, or what's eating them? I really want to know!

USA320Pilot comments: Prior to their bankruptcy CBA, the United pilots have always demanded super seniority in any corporate transaction with US Airways. In my opinion, the United pilots believe they are better than the US Airways pilots because they have more widebody aircraft on their property, which pay more than narrowbody's.

This all started in 1995 when Gerry Greenwald called all of the leaders of every US Air union to Chicago for a meeting. At that meeting the US Airways unions were told that for the deal to proceed there would be a reduction in the scope of US Airways, across-the-board US Airways employee furloughs, and the United employees would receive a no furlough clause, and we would have to agree to a pre-nuptial seniority agreement, before the deal would proceed.

That's when the United employees had ESOP control.

For my work group, we would furlough about 20% of the pilots (1,000 out of about 5,000 active pilots) and we were going to see US Airways aircraft removed from service such as the F-28s, DC-9's, and MD-80s.

Well...our MEC told them we would not agree to these terms and the deal died.

Then in 2000, United ALPA tried to force another pre-nuptial agreement across the table, but this time Stephen Wolf rejected the proposal as unfair prior to the formal merger offer.

My point is simple, the United pilot group continues to try and bypass ALAP Merger Policy to obtain super seniority and they know that if there is a UCT, the US Airways pilot group will remember what the United pilots tried to do to the US Airways pilots and they are scared to death that RSA's deep pockets could cause a UCT to proceed and turnabout could be fair play.

Cav, what goes around could come around and there is nothing I can do that will stop it because once they were in bankruptcy, the pilots now want ALPA Merger * Fragmentation Policy because they are scared they could see their assets sold without an employee transfer. Ironic…isn’t it.

In fact, the new United ALPA Merger & Fragmentation language matches the US Airways ALPA agreement verbatim.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

If you would have posted this information before I would not have hounded you!

It makes more sense now and frankly I agree with you about the UAL pilots wanting the entire ball of wax, and that NOT being right or fair in the least. Wow talk about Karma!

Then you have the IAM, which UAL mechanics threw out, and U mechanics with the IAM, that would mix like oil and water. Between the pilots union problem and the mechanics union problem and with dissension between the groups, I can't see how it could be worked out?

 

[Stick-n-Rudder]

USA320Pilot,

I quote you:

"Prior to their bankruptcy CBA, the United pilots have always demanded super seniority in"

Is this any different than what you and your ALPA rep's have proposed to the ALPA represented pilots at the U S Airways wholly owned express operators?

 

[Dilligas]

Let me ask you this, why do the UAL guys hate you so much?

What are they afraid of, or what's eating them?

Hmmm...

Surely you jest, Cav...

Just venture into cyberspace and read the rantings for the last 3+ years, both on here and on Yahoo... the UAL people and the U people for that matter have been subjected to a never ending barrage.

Such an embarrassment.

"Respectfully",

D

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Surely you jest, Cav...

Just venture into cyberspace and read the rantings for the last 3+ years, both on here and on Yahoo... the UAL people and the U people for that matter have been subjected to a never ending barrage.

Such an embarrassment.

"Respectfully",

D

You mean this isn't regurgitation of information?! What a disappointment!

 

[EternalOptimist]

you know in the begining when i first started posting i read chip's posting's and i found them interesting. it sounded like it all made sense. now its like a broken record. chip please stop. if we merge then we merge if we don't we don't. you may be right on all this but people just don't want to hear it any more. i for one am for a united usairways merger but please stop bringing it up all the time. it gets old buddy. we all know you want to work for ual . we all know you want to fly the big jets. well maybe that may come true for you . but for know ,just leave it alone. united employees don't want to hear that. all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire and creating animositiy between u&ual employees. and if we do merge its gonna be a mess because everyone will hate eachother. i am not saying that it will be your fualt . but your postings do contribute. so my friend , and i say this with the upmost respect. please stop. let us read what seigel and bronner say for ourselves and let us make our own conclusions as to what it all means. i ma sure your a good man and you mean well but its not helping the cause. B)

Etops1,

I think A320 should continue to post whatever he desires to debate, that is what this place is for. We all a have choice to read or skip his posts.

Do I agree with everything he posts? NO, but he has a contribution here that I feel is important.

It might be boring around here with his viewpoint.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

It might be boring around here with his viewpoint.

I'm happy to agree with you that reading his contributions, (and yes, having the right to do so) can be done as long as one recalls that it is should be done strictly for entertainment purposes.

 

[EternalOptimist]

I'm happy to agree with you that reading his contributions, (and yes, having the right to do so) can be done as long as one recalls that it is should be done strictly for entertainment purposes.

That is my point, lighten up about him. It's just his opinion, everyone has one, you know like________s.

 

[A320 Driver]

I guess it's possible for some folks to think of a merger as a cure all for our problems. Personally, I don't think so. This whole fiasco started with mergers and their related headaches. I don't want another one.

Mergers stink!

A320 Driver :unsure:

 

[700UW]

You don't seem to understand, DELETED has beaten his ICT(imaginary corporate transaction) for a year or more now, you would think he would learn by now.

He twists articles and never post true facts.

 

[funguy2]

He twists articles and never post true facts.

Exactly. Once, USA320Pilot used an article which discussed the possibility of trans-atlantic airline mergers by 2010 as eveidence of the UCT.

With all that spin, its no wonder I am dizzy.

 

[DorkDriver]

"USA320Pilot comments: Prior to their bankruptcy CBA, the United pilots have always demanded super seniority in any corporate transaction with US Airways. In my opinion, the United pilots believe they are better than the US Airways pilots...."

Isn't that how the mainline MEC views the WO pilots? What makes you think you are entitled to 100% of anything at another property? LOA 83 was negotiated with zero input from the WO's even though it scoped us out of an aircraft on our own property.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Do they drug test Klingons?