Us Air Needs To Cut Costs By Yearend

[RowUnderDCA]

Do legacy carriers pay the most amount of money to their least productive employees, when you figure in sick and vacation days? Is there an appreciable difference between the productivity of a 4 year flight officer and a 20-year flight officer? What about a flight attendant? Customer Service rep? Actually, I'm most likely to believe that a senior reservation agent could be significantly more productive than a junior one. But is the differential in pay reflect that realistically?

This seniority compensation system has created a very unstable economic equation. It is now that it has finally become unsustainable.

The perverse incentive that labor has gone along with is that you are chained to your company because you perceive that you only get rewarded for you years of labor in the later years. Is that an accurate assessment of how senior folk feel? "I was used and abused for so many years, so now it's my time to reap the rewards of this rediculous system." Hey, I'm just asking.

Again, an obvious reason why U has too much money going out for every dollar coming in.

I'd kind of hope that U would be able to offer early retirement in conjunction with a cost savings plan that shrinks the differential between new hires and top outs to one that more nearly reflects the productivity differential and reduces the unstable economic condition.

But, hey, I'm the one that thinks our tax code SHOULD be used to shrink the difference between the wealthy and the working class, if only to encourage our existence in ONE, unified American economy. Now, THAT's socialist-ic-ish.

 

[cavalier]

We're all shills for something....Well, except me.

Enough of the shill routine.

Bill. Can we use the term "huckster" instead?

 

[X-U]

"Do legacy carriers pay the most amount of money to their least productive employees, when you figure in sick and vacation days? Is there an appreciable difference between the productivity of a 4 year flight officer and a 20-year flight officer? What about a flight attendant? Customer Service rep? Actually, I'm most likely to believe that a senior reservation agent could be significantly more productive than a junior one. But is the differential in pay reflect that realistically? "

Thgere is more to it than productivity. An experienced employee can make all of the difference in an emergency situation, or better yet, prevent the emergency from ever happening.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Point taken. I had conceived of that in my mind as 'increased productivity,' but I see how that could be hard to quantify.

It's just that everything in the aviation industry seems to be in such extremes. Sort of the way our country is going: haves and have nots, those that are granted rights and privileges and those that are denied them (can you believe we're debating that?!)

Anyway, it seems to me to be an extremly difficult dynamic to get out of, especially, in this economic environment and airline travel market. Yes, there may be simple things that U management does poorly, but that doesn't mean that their aren't really HARD problems that they are making a painful, but not idiotic attempt at solving.

 

[funguy2]

RowUnderDCA:

You make some great points. Thank you.

I remember being astonished that UAIR did not find a way prior to or inside of bankruptcy to offer early-retirements, and try to remove some of the highest payed employees such that average pay could be lowered (and thus reflected in lower CASM, and a happier well-adjusted workforce who might have felt less "screwed" by management).

US Airways did not do this. I think it was a MAJOR blunder of the current management. Now, due to the nature of furloughs, etc, management may still be able to implement such a system, and bring back more junior furloughs in order to lower overall labor expenses.

Now, due to the nature of a pilot's career, and "forced" retirement at age 60, I doubt very many pilots would take the company up on this issue. However, I suspect the company might be able to find enough res, airport, ramp agents, and mechanics, who might be willing to take an early retirement, and perhaps find employment in another related area, for another airline, or do something completely new, for the right retirement package.

P.S. I understand that some aviation employees from all areas have jet-fuel instead of blood and would never leave the industry voluntarily.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

P.P.S. I understand that some aviation employees from all areas have jet-fuel instead of blood and would never leave the industry voluntarily.

No kidding. And believe me, this aviation biz persistence isn't limited to big time airlines. The little FBO owner that lives next door to the small town WWII airport and fuels three planes a day won't consider changing professions in order to feed his family!

 

[diogenes]

Do legacy carriers pay the most amount of money to their least productive employees, when you figure in sick and vacation days? Is there an appreciable difference between the productivity of a 4 year flight officer and a 20-year flight officer? What about a flight attendant? Customer Service rep? Actually, I'm most likely to believe that a senior reservation agent could be significantly more productive than a junior one. But is the differential in pay reflect that realistically?

This seniority compensation system has created a very unstable economic equation. It is now that it has finally become unsustainable.

The perverse incentive that labor has gone along with is that you are chained to your company because you perceive that you only get rewarded for you years of labor in the later years. Is that an accurate assessment of how senior folk feel? "I was used and abused for so many years, so now it's my time to reap the rewards of this rediculous system." Hey, I'm just asking.

Again, an obvious reason why U has too much money going out for every dollar coming in.

I'd kind of hope that U would be able to offer early retirement in conjunction with a cost savings plan that shrinks the differential between new hires and top outs to one that more nearly reflects the productivity differential and reduces the unstable economic condition.

But, hey, I'm the one that thinks our tax code SHOULD be used to shrink the difference between the wealthy and the working class, if only to encourage our existence in ONE, unified American economy. Now, THAT's socialist-ic-ish.

Row,

I believe it has to do with an ongoing mindset at U.

The powers that have been, as well as those that be, seem to take intense satisfaction in causing as much employee discontent and disatisfation as is possible.

That is not hyperbole on my part. In matters great and small with which I'm familiar, shafting the employee has been job one. From scheduling, to arbitrary award of VTO and OT, to duty assignments, to grievance handling, to you name it, the sole constant has been pissing the employee off. I have seen very legitimate grievances go forward, and have each level of the company that handles that grievance basically rubber stamp 'denied' on it. Even when their OWN documents spoke against them.

With regards to early retirements, why should the company spend one sou on this, when it is much more fun to run employees off, downgrade them, fire them, or furlough them?

 

[PITbull]

Row,

Just curious. From your post above, does a person in your employ have the exact same salary when they were hired? Does a 20- year employee who is non -union, make the same amount as when he/she started?

Once an employee tops out, for a U f/a example, their 14th year of service, as a unionized employee, the only increases are contractual. And that could take up to 4 years after the amendable date of a contract. For exmple USAirways f/as had a 3 year agreement 1993 and became amendable in 1996. However it took an additional 4 years to negotiate a new contract...May of 2000. So basically 7 years. If you follow that continum with U f/as we never benefited from any contractual increases because we went right into concessions, and never realized 1 red penny, where we sit today...now looking at concession #3.

We haven't had a contractual raise since the 1993 agreement. Just curious, and with all due respect, if you have been with the same employer for years, have you had to wait 11 years and counting for any increase in salary???

That is where the employees at U sit. And no increase in site.

Wouldn't it be great to say that all "goods, services" and taxes, have not gone up since 1992?

Giving increases in wages and incentivising one's employees is in every business model. There's a cost to doing business.

 

[bluetoad]

Why would management offer an early retirement when they are going to get what they want in the end anyway? This way they will not be liable for the early retirement payments? There is alot of chest thumping going on here but the only group I see trying to stand up to management is the IAM. The pilots have capitulated, the res agents have nothing left to give, Flight attendents will give in shortly. Whether you like it or not, management is winning this battle. The only question is when they have won the battle, what will be left? What will have been accomplished? The demise of the airline career will be complete for the people who love it most. We will still have an airline who's cost's are not as low as Southwest or JetBlue and we will most likely be looking at yet again a new management team as our last one would have decided that they have done all they can do and are moving on to bigger challenges and more time with the family.

 

[usfliboi]

"This is a no-brainer, we must do what we must do"

Shill? I don't think so. Each of us "must do what we must do"

As a customer I have decisions to make regarding continuing to fly US Airways. Based on the Negative Attitudes posted here I'd be gone 6 months ago. Based on what I view and hear from the workers I meet, I'm NEVER leaving unless the doors close.

Management has IMO the dirtiest detail of all. Cleaning up 20 years of screwups and bonehead decisions, allowing US Airways to become a bloated dinosaur. Now faced with unheard of challenges in the industry all of those chickens have come home to roost. They have a task to complete and great portions of it are painful to be polite and all of the rhetoric from labor will not change the basic facts. COSTS are to high PERIOD and if 40% of your total costs come from one area, that's where you go FIRST to cut. Thus round 3 in proposed wage and benefit cuts. It's simple economics. If I can "Buy" res agents for $9/hr on the street right now, why am I paying $21/hr? Would you go to Target and buy the 10 pairs of Lee Jeans @ $21.00 each or go to K-Mart and get the same Lee Jeans for $15.00. Why expect Dave to do what you won't do in your personal life, when it comes to labor? That's the dilema management faces.

Labor - Want to keep the doors open? Face the hard facts above. Mostly not your fault. No whinning about "Fair" LIFE IS NOT FAIR. This is a crappy hand you've been dealt. Continue with the failed tactics of organized labor and end up like Bethlehem Steel. Find a new path, adapt and perhaps flourish after a down period. Remember most workers in this country roundly reject unionism as being in their best interests. Many, like me like the "Concept" but abhor what unions have become. Unions represent less than 15% of the workforce down from near 40% in the 60's. Your ideas have been rejected, pure and simple.

So it appears that everyone must do what they must do. Hope there is an airline after the dust settles.

Bob! That nail was hit rt on the head.

 

[usfliboi]

Sniff, Sniff!

Do I smell a shill?

Typical ! No one can have an opinion but a couple on here! If its different stake umm!!!

 

[usfliboi]

Bob, you forget the rules around here. If you don't chant "full pay 'til the last day" you're a shill. If you don't remind everyone that "the concession stand is closed" you're a shill. If you suggest that there's something wrong with how the unions play the game, you're a shill. If you point out that the company needs to do more than simply stop paying the CEO, you're a shill.

another nail on the head!

 

[mweiss]

He was totally shocked to discover WN agents actually made more (and this was prior to the concession rounds), and said, "I never would have believed that!"

It all depends on how you define how much a person makes. Personally, I'd go for the "how many dollars in cash and benefits do I take home each week?" approach. Based on that metric, you're absolutely right that WN employees make more.

So why is US's labor component of CASM so high? Sounds to me like you're being used inefficiently. So, if you want to be competitive, you need to be paid the same amount of money per ASM as WN employees. Want more money? Service more ASMs. Simple as that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

mweiss,

The next time I'm sitting on a company scheduled 3 hour "productivity break" I'll keep your suggestion in mind. Maybe I can find a plane just sitting there and take it to where-ever will create the most ASM's.

Course the crew that was supposed to fly that plane, the passengers that were going to ride it, and the company probably wouldn't be too happy with me.

Jim

 

[diogenes]

It all depends on how you define how much a person makes. Personally, I'd go for the "how many dollars in cash and benefits do I take home each week?" approach. Based on that metric, you're absolutely right that WN employees make more.

So why is US's labor component of CASM so high? Sounds to me like you're being used inefficiently. So, if you want to be competitive, you need to be paid the same amount of money per ASM as WN employees. Want more money? Service more ASMs. Simple as that.

Well, hand the reins of the company over to me, and I'll get right on it!