Mechanics turn down the concessions.

I'm really not trying to fight you bubba, your an officer and centerpiece to all our operations. You deserve respect and good pay. I'm not your enemy and I mean that sincerely. But your attitude is no different than the company's attitude. I do not fly (I'm afraid of heights, lol) I do not want your pay or equivalant, I am not a pilot. We are a very good collection of the best techs in the business, we intend to be treated as such. This movement is not just isolated to United, but other companies have handled their people much better. This is a serious statement sir, and if you don't honestly evaluate it soon, then it will be you that doesn't get the point. Busting us down, berating us, threatening will only cause your airplanes to sit. We are part of your team, we are part of your family, start treating us like it.
 
MM and Prechill,

It appears you are two peas in a pod, so I will addres you both at the same time.

You say (or someone in this thread did) that the aircraft flies itself on auto pilot. Wow! Such insightful thoughts. And what exactly does a Gate Mechanic do while the airplane is on the ground with no write-ups? Is he in the shop fixing parts or in the shack reading his Sun-Times, eating donuts and BSing with the guys?

I have never thought that being a mechanic was a glorious job, nor have I thought it was a job that was not worth something. I believe that, just like in almost every job in the world, the market place has a good idea what a job is worth and the people who do that job get about that much pay.

You seem to believe that pilots are overpaid. You are perfectly entitled to that thought. However, you seem to think they are overpaid because YOU, the mechanic, has installed a box by plugging together two plugs and affixing it to the aircraft with a screwdriver and so now YOU are flying the aircraft! Hope you are there next time the flaps won't come down, or the gear, or the autopilot wont engage! WHAT SHOULD I DO IF THERE IS NO MECHANIC AT FL370????? Dare I ever got to work without my trusty mechanic on the jumpseat? Footage at 11!!

The funniest thing about all this is that one does not even need to argue the points with you, as you are your own worst enemy. One just needs to sit comfortably and watch the train wreck of your logic and wisdom.

I know what I did to get the job. I know what I do to stay qualified to do the job. I know just how difficult my job is to do. I know just how difficult and expensive it is to replace me. I also know all of those things for your job. Therein lies the problem. You have not quite figured it out yet.

You also seem to think that a Bankruptcy Judge will do things that he will not be asked to do by the creditors committee. You seem to think that he will look at ALL aspects of the company in making determinations as to what he will and will not approve. YOU ARE WRONG! The Judge does what HE IS ASKED TO DO! He makes decisions based on what he is asked to do and if the only group that refuses to participate in cuts is 141M, then you will be first on the chopping block. What SHOULD the company ask for from 141M now that you have forced the company into BK? Perhaps we should ask that he abrogate ALL your contracts and that Boeing take over the MM for UAL? I do not believe that the company should. But what I think and what the creditor committee thinks are two different things.

You have hurt not only yourselves but all your fellow employees at UAL. You have given the IAM another black eye (perhaps quite intentionally, but then who knows how warped the political agenda of AMFA supporters truly is?), and you have shown yourselves to be willing to put 84,000 careers and probably 200,000 livelihoods on the line for what? 6-7% pay cuts and the CHANCE that if war breaks out or there is another terrorist attack against the airlines you might lose more jobs? Well, DUH! Did you think that this agreement would supersede the inevitable aviation industry contraction caused by either of those horrific events?

You guys need to check the mirror. You are one loose bolt short of really hurting yourselves, and hopefully, the company will give you a lifeline by reworking your deal somehow. However, this brnksmanship is farce in the extreme, and I know about 70,000 UAL employees are now HOPING you get your a$$ handed to you on a platter by the BK judge, should it come to that! None of us like to be threatened, but that is exactly what you have done to the other 70,000 employees livelihoods.

Go in peace, and go far, far away.

mancityfan
 
Plus you can come work at my shop...but I'm not sure what I can do with a pilot...can you wash cars...lol...I'm just kidding, I swear just a joke, I hope you have a good thanksgiving and this will be worked out...just keep the IAM out of it
 
So you pose this as my issue...well count the numbers buckaroo...there's alot more than just little ol me who are just a little upset with things around here and it's funny how such a small group of guys who don't seem to know their place just took the lift from under your wings
 
Pick out any text you want to copy by left clicking and highlight the area
you want to COPY then put the cursor where you want to put the info.and
left click again to PASTE.Hence the term CUT AND PASTE.You may need to practice a few times as I had to to get it right.Most anything you read can
be cut and pasted.www.lockergnome.com is a good website for tips and tricks
as is www.techtv.com/callforhelp .
As for what is going to happen now its anyones guess but I believe they
will tweak and give it back again.Thats usual for the iam.One big thing
they could have done but chose to ignore is not giving back the 4on 2 off.
Also upper management never announced any paycuts for themselves.I know
the union wants Utecht and Norman out.They should have listened.I dont think
people are unreasonable,but maybe some people felt they just needed to send a
message I dont know.I need to speak to my pal at the union office to ask what
he thought about this stuff.I have been off work on rdo.later

p.s tell me how your computer lesson went.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 11:00:55 AM wts54 wrote:

Pick out any text you want to copy by left clicking and highlight the area
you want to COPY then put the cursor where you want to put the info.and
left click again to PASTE.Hence the term CUT AND PASTE.You may need to practice a few times as I had to to get it right.Most anything you read can
be cut and pasted.www.lockergnome.com is a good website for tips and tricks
as is www.techtv.com/callforhelp .
As for what is going to happen now its anyones guess but I believe they
will tweak and give it back again.Thats usual for the iam.One big thing
they could have done but chose to ignore is not giving back the 4on 2 off.
Also upper management never announced any paycuts for themselves.I know
the union wants Utecht and Norman out.They should have listened.I dont think
people are unreasonable,but maybe some people felt they just needed to send a
message I dont know.I need to speak to my pal at the union office to ask what
he thought about this stuff.I have been off work on rdo.later

p.s tell me how your computer lesson went.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Thx for the tips, I will try it soon. Now its time to go eat some turykey.

Peace y'all don't worry about us mechanics too much everything will be allright. Later, I'm out.
 
And yes, I hope this is a black eye for the IAM, like the one I'm wearing right now. If it makes you feel better, I got my butt kicked pretty good yesterday in the ring
 
With all this specialization and skill the mechs possess, I pray y'all don't go the way of the cheetah. Boeing isn't building too many planes lately, which provides unemployed mechanics to the job market--increasing supply. When supply increases and demand decreases...just ask Del Famine (the guy pumping sunshine up your collective a**) what happens....here's a clue...psst...the economy sux....pass the rolls?
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 11:19:00 AM mastermechanic wrote:

I'm really not trying to fight you bubba, your an officer and centerpiece to all our operations. You deserve respect and good pay. I'm not your enemy and I mean that sincerely. But your attitude is no different than the company's attitude. I do not fly (I'm afraid of heights, lol) I do not want your pay or equivalant, I am not a pilot. We are a very good collection of the best techs in the business, we intend to be treated as such. This movement is not just isolated to United, but other companies have handled their people much better. This is a serious statement sir, and if you don't honestly evaluate it soon, then it will be you that doesn't get the point. Busting us down, berating us, threatening will only cause your airplanes to sit. We are part of your team, we are part of your family, start treating us like it.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I cannot understand you. On the one hand, you berate all and sundry and seek to inflame, and then another post appears concilliatory and almost cogent.

What is it that the IAM wants that it thinks it can achieve FROM THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM by forcing the airline into bankruptcy? What? If it is something concrete, then why was it not part of the T/A?

There is a lot of talk about respect. What respect do you deserve? You get paid quite well to fix and maintain aircraft. I get paid quite well to fly those airplanes to wherever the company asks me to, in whatever weather conditions are present the day I am supposed to go, with whatever CF/MEL items have not been fixed. What is the difference? And, for what it is worth, I CONSTANTLY tell people how UAL hads the best airplanes, maintained by the best mechanics in the industry!

You seem to think the company has slighted you? How? What did they do? Was it your retro? Was it your contract? What? You are obviously unhappy with how we came to be in this position. Well, let me tell you, there are 10,000 pilots equally, if not more, unhappy than you, but guess what? We know when it is time to fight and when it is time to save the fight for another day.

Do you think pilots LIKE taking an 18% cut in their pay AND an 18% cut in their retirement? Do you think we like that the company is going to furlough 15% of the pilots (and more if there is the almost certain Iraq conflict)? Of course not! But what are we supposed to do? Thumb our nose at the company and talk to the judge about it? Would that help or hurt our LONG TERM cause?

You see, the frustration most of us feel is that it appears that the IAM has a bunch of intransigent employees who have little or no idea what they want or how to get it. They want a new union but cannot find the votes to do it. They want respect, but constantly pull stunts like this that removes what they had built up. They openly espouse taking the company through bankruptcy for the sport, while 70,000 other employees listen to their weak, infighting and past histroy excuses why they should not vote to stay out of bankruptcy. They say this is just like USAir and they are going to get screwed AFTER the deal! They see a conspiracy in every move by the company, and have yet to realize that Tilton is here for the long haul, like it or not, and that he is the last best hope for making this anything like the company you seem to want this to be!

If you could be so kind, please innumerate the points that make this deal so onerous on the 141M folks. Let us all inside the mind of a NO! voter, so that we can all understand what exactly you have so much heartburn about. If it is that 7% is too much, it will fall on deaf ears. When coupled with the backwards seat movement MOST pilots are about to experience (some for the second time in 12 months!), the 18% pay, 18% retirement, and 20% seat change is starting to add up to REAL money. I stand to lose about $67K in 2003 and another $67K in 2004 from this deal, and I am NOT one of the $200K plus guys who everyone seems to think flies these airplanes! Let me know what exactly your beefs are, so that we can all understand the reasons the IAM voted this thing down.

mancityfan
 
Couple of points quick because I have been ordered off the computer by you know who.
(1) We cannot do much about the IAM, but as you can see, they do not speak for the rank and file. They are a virus to this company and a plague to this industry, at this point I wouldn't care if the Salvation Army represented me. If you can in anyway help rid us of them, you have made alot of friends.
(2) If you can absorb a 67k cut, then something is very very wrong. You know it, I know it.
(3) If you could only grasp the hell it's been for the last 2 years Mancity, but all you say is I'm sick and tired of the mechanics complaining Our grievences have never been resolved. We've been in this same fight since the beginning. Do you realize I have not had a contract that wasn't abrogated for almost a decade and a half. This is not a union issue, this is a people issue. If Glenn Tilton and ALPA don't recognize that when you have people with over 15yrs+ willing to end their careers, their is something way more serious than a 9% paycut. Thats what you guys should be asking, and demanding answers. Your only response is we can leave. Do you think that makes us feel better. That all the effort to help build this house means nothing to those who use it for shelter, and now WE can leave.
 
Okay then if your rich then whats your problem?
The people voted it that way and hopefully it will
get re-voted and accepted,but please mellow out.
Its not the end of the world.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 2:04:28 PM UAL24 wrote:


--- This is a very real concern for you dumbasses. How many employers will hire an individual that has the words United Airlines Mechanic on the resume. Seriously, who would want to deal with that. There is a huge stigma attached to that so that will be the one silver lining in this. -----

----------------
[/blockquote]

Um..did that stigma prevent anyone from hiring the EAL folks? Judging from the number of EAL mechanics that work at current majors, it doesn't appear to.
 
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