Mechanics turn down the concessions.
- Thread starter atabuy
- Start date
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On 11/28/2002 9:06:52 AM RV4 wrote:
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On 11/28/2002 9:00:33 AM jb wrote:
RV4,
What??????????
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Dig your head out and you will understand
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RV4,
I apologize as I didn't see your entire entry.
I'll be quick to admit that that it's a bit messed up for you to all be in the same union. I understand (from an outsiders point of view) that mecanics should be represented by a union that represents only mechanics. To otherwise have it is to just be a union in the business of collecting union dues and nothing else. I'm with you on that one.
Is this the right time for the IAM v. AMFA fight? Perhaps once the first hurdle is cleared then sights can be set on the next one.
This is not the time to be selfish. Is it a bad time? You bet! Please don't have the attitude that I'll just come to work and extract every last dime I can and to heck with everyone else when the doors close. It's just not right and it's not fair to the people that have invested their lives and their family's lives in this company.
For the sake of discussion...could you expand on your comments about mechanics already flying the airplanes and pilots being airmarshalls.
Thanks,
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On 11/28/2002 9:06:52 AM RV4 wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 11/28/2002 9:00:33 AM jb wrote:
RV4,
What??????????
----------------
[/blockquote]
Dig your head out and you will understand
----------------
[/blockquote]
RV4,
I apologize as I didn't see your entire entry.
I'll be quick to admit that that it's a bit messed up for you to all be in the same union. I understand (from an outsiders point of view) that mecanics should be represented by a union that represents only mechanics. To otherwise have it is to just be a union in the business of collecting union dues and nothing else. I'm with you on that one.
Is this the right time for the IAM v. AMFA fight? Perhaps once the first hurdle is cleared then sights can be set on the next one.
This is not the time to be selfish. Is it a bad time? You bet! Please don't have the attitude that I'll just come to work and extract every last dime I can and to heck with everyone else when the doors close. It's just not right and it's not fair to the people that have invested their lives and their family's lives in this company.
For the sake of discussion...could you expand on your comments about mechanics already flying the airplanes and pilots being airmarshalls.
Thanks,
Like i said, today's avionics and the system mechanics are the Pilots.
They just dont get recognized and paid as such.
No need to go to school to become a pilot, we already fly the aircraft on many occasions.
Pilots are rapidly becoming armed air marshalls, while the mechanics profession is flying the aircraft.
I am not attacking the pilots as much as you think. My beef is more with the unskilled baggage handler, floor cleaner type that are overpaid at the expense of the mechanic because they belong to the same strength in numbers inudstrial union. The massive overhead of overpaid under achieved management is another source for your needed cuts.
Look at USAirways and tell me why I should vote yes on a concession for you, just so I will be laid-off within the next 3 months? I will keep every penny I can, then once the enevitable outcome kicks me in the butt, then I will go to school or invent something.
They just dont get recognized and paid as such.
No need to go to school to become a pilot, we already fly the aircraft on many occasions.
Pilots are rapidly becoming armed air marshalls, while the mechanics profession is flying the aircraft.
I am not attacking the pilots as much as you think. My beef is more with the unskilled baggage handler, floor cleaner type that are overpaid at the expense of the mechanic because they belong to the same strength in numbers inudstrial union. The massive overhead of overpaid under achieved management is another source for your needed cuts.
Look at USAirways and tell me why I should vote yes on a concession for you, just so I will be laid-off within the next 3 months? I will keep every penny I can, then once the enevitable outcome kicks me in the butt, then I will go to school or invent something.
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On 11/28/2002 9:22:25 AM jb wrote:
For the sake of discussion...could you expand on your comments about mechanics already flying the airplanes and pilots being airmarshalls.
Thanks,
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[/blockquote]
jb,
For the sake of the length of post this request would take and given our abilites to link you to important reading material regarding this matter:
Simply GO here and read this:
http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archi...xh/peb320nw.PDF
That day of P.E.B. testimony is one of the best understandings of the mechanics job and status in the industry that I have ever seen.
Thanks for taking the time to ask, and also thanks for taking the time to learn the issues.
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On 11/28/2002 9:22:25 AM jb wrote:
For the sake of discussion...could you expand on your comments about mechanics already flying the airplanes and pilots being airmarshalls.
Thanks,
----------------
[/blockquote]
jb,
For the sake of the length of post this request would take and given our abilites to link you to important reading material regarding this matter:
Simply GO here and read this:
http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archi...xh/peb320nw.PDF
That day of P.E.B. testimony is one of the best understandings of the mechanics job and status in the industry that I have ever seen.
Thanks for taking the time to ask, and also thanks for taking the time to learn the issues.
From what I hear the mechanics at USAir were told that the concessions would be enough. It's never enough. This is from the USAir D-141M website.
__________________________________________________________
Dated November 26
US Airways¡¦ management notified the employee representatives that an additional $200 million in annual cost reductions from changes in work rules and benefits are needed to help the bankrupt carrier improve its operations.
US Airways¡¦ targeted cost reductions from District 141-M members include:
„h Elimination of aircraft receipt and dispatch by Mechanic & Utility employees.
„h Reduce the Utility function at PIT, CLT, and PHL to only thru-flight cleaning.
„h Outsource lavatory and potable water servicing.
„h Discontinue using Mechanics to de-ice aircraft.
„h Outsource plant maintenance work.
„h Outsource Ground Equipment maintenance (GSE) from all stations except BOS, CLT, LGA, PIT, and PHL.
„h Daily maintenance checks to be performed by vendors.
„h Eliminate occupational injury (OJI) bank.
„h Delete real estate provisions in plant closings.
„h Eliminate the two percent 401(k) match.
___________________________________________________________________
Do you really think the ERP for the mechanics at UA will be different? IT'S NEVER ENOUGH. I would bet that the IAM will get the vacation issue changed to an increase in the percentage and it will pass. It still doesn't mean that BK won't happen and it doesn't mean that they won't come back asking for more. Show me some real incentives for buying the ERP. Job protection, no outsourcing while mechanics are laid off, have a retirement multiplier that will get some of the old timers out now. How about some real language about not abrogating our contract. The original T/A was full of too many holes. If they get the concessions out of the mechanics then that should be the end of it. If they need to ask a judge to throw out our contract then maybe it's time to close the doors. Enough is enough. I'm tired of giving to save poor management.
__________________________________________________________
Dated November 26
US Airways¡¦ management notified the employee representatives that an additional $200 million in annual cost reductions from changes in work rules and benefits are needed to help the bankrupt carrier improve its operations.
US Airways¡¦ targeted cost reductions from District 141-M members include:
„h Elimination of aircraft receipt and dispatch by Mechanic & Utility employees.
„h Reduce the Utility function at PIT, CLT, and PHL to only thru-flight cleaning.
„h Outsource lavatory and potable water servicing.
„h Discontinue using Mechanics to de-ice aircraft.
„h Outsource plant maintenance work.
„h Outsource Ground Equipment maintenance (GSE) from all stations except BOS, CLT, LGA, PIT, and PHL.
„h Daily maintenance checks to be performed by vendors.
„h Eliminate occupational injury (OJI) bank.
„h Delete real estate provisions in plant closings.
„h Eliminate the two percent 401(k) match.
___________________________________________________________________
Do you really think the ERP for the mechanics at UA will be different? IT'S NEVER ENOUGH. I would bet that the IAM will get the vacation issue changed to an increase in the percentage and it will pass. It still doesn't mean that BK won't happen and it doesn't mean that they won't come back asking for more. Show me some real incentives for buying the ERP. Job protection, no outsourcing while mechanics are laid off, have a retirement multiplier that will get some of the old timers out now. How about some real language about not abrogating our contract. The original T/A was full of too many holes. If they get the concessions out of the mechanics then that should be the end of it. If they need to ask a judge to throw out our contract then maybe it's time to close the doors. Enough is enough. I'm tired of giving to save poor management.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
Why is it that the union representing the mechanics at USair and Continental are having trouble with their balloting system? I believe that you will soon see that there will be questions at United concerning the mechanics ability to re-understand what they have already voted NO on. Do these mechanic groups at their respective airlines have something in common? Other than being responsible for the lives of thousands of passengers annually. I believe that RV4 has struck a chord. Do you think that the reason that the mechanics at United voted NO could be that their profession has a value? If a pilot earns $200,000 annually what should a mechanic earn. NO disrespect to any pilot reading this, but it is safe to say that the mechanic profession is just as important as yours. The age and adage of strength in numbers is over, especially if you never apply it. I cannot understand why the FRENCH LABOR groups use strength in numbers to shut the system down. While all the industrial unions under the AFL-CIO do is talk and balk. Are these generally Socialists Laborers better union members than those here in the United States?
airknocker
Member
- Aug 21, 2002
- 52
- 0
Well, looks like your mechs are a bit of a speedbump on UAL's road to recovery. Don't worry all you other folks, the IAM will get it's mind made right by appropriate pressure by UAL mgt and the traditional IAM unconfused revote will set things straight. Just like U everyone will sign on with fiscal responsibility and before you can say Steve Wolf, you'll be in Chapter 11. UAL mgt will have free rein to steer your futures anyway they, not you, see fit. It is not pleasant, but UAL like U was infected by Mr. Wolf long ago and the chickens have come home to roost. Misery loves company.
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
This brings another question. Is the airline industry regulated or deregulated? Should a business that is mismanaged be allowed to recover in Bankruptcy court at the expense of labor? Many here state that the pilots at United are overpaid. Whose fault is that? Not the pilots or their union. All of the major airlines, except possibly Southwest were being mismanaged prior to 9-11 so please do not attempt to go there. If a company believes that it has the assets to pay a labor group at a certain level and it does so it is not the labor groups fault when that company fails. To blame the cost of labor on the companies inability to conduct business, is bad business.
UnitedChicago
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 756
- 0
Hello all. Happy Thanksgiving!
Let's try not to get too nasty or upset by the vote. I think it's a waste of time to thrash the mechanics at this point. It's a holiday and they deserve respect like all of you do.
It's encouraging that Tilton is eager to get back to the table to hash out a new agreement.
The good news is that 2 of 3 groups approved the contract. Now lets get that parties back to the table and a new T/A for a vote ASAP.
I know the mechanics and management can come to terms and ratify their portion of the givebacks.
Take car everyone. Have a wonderful turkey day! Don't eat too much! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
Let's try not to get too nasty or upset by the vote. I think it's a waste of time to thrash the mechanics at this point. It's a holiday and they deserve respect like all of you do.
It's encouraging that Tilton is eager to get back to the table to hash out a new agreement.
The good news is that 2 of 3 groups approved the contract. Now lets get that parties back to the table and a new T/A for a vote ASAP.
I know the mechanics and management can come to terms and ratify their portion of the givebacks.
Take car everyone. Have a wonderful turkey day! Don't eat too much! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
- 0
wts..,
could you tell me how to transfer an article into a post. I know you didn't type and article word for word.
I'm a rookie and I'm still learning, lol.
Thx. and happy thxgiving.
BTW what do u think is going to happen next. Are we going to vote on the same package? like US Air did. From what Tilton is saying it sounds like the same package just tweaked a little bit. Maybe they'll give us our vacation back but increase the percentage. I guess we'll see soon.
Later and happy thxgiving to everyone!
could you tell me how to transfer an article into a post. I know you didn't type and article word for word.
I'm a rookie and I'm still learning, lol.
Thx. and happy thxgiving.
BTW what do u think is going to happen next. Are we going to vote on the same package? like US Air did. From what Tilton is saying it sounds like the same package just tweaked a little bit. Maybe they'll give us our vacation back but increase the percentage. I guess we'll see soon.
Later and happy thxgiving to everyone!
All you have to do is read the USAirways board to see what the future holds. We voted down the first contract 57% to 43% and then were told by the IAM and the company that we did not understand what we were voting on. The next vote after much pressure passed 57% to 43%, many of the yes voters are not with U anymore and when the company gets their next wish list many more of us will be gone. The IAM will of course get their legal fees, ect!! I hope you have better luck then us here at U.
mastermechanic
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 202
- 0
mancity fan..my man, your back
