mechanics lose in court

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/8/2003 141 PM jake wrote:

You are guilty of not providing responsible and honest leadership to the unfortunate people who believe your lies. These people work hard every day and expect not to be lied to.

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Who is telling the LIES? Your website or you?

 

[Checking it Out]

Dave First off, the accuracy of the post that jake posted is the truth! How do I know Simple. If the Supports in NY would have in any way, shape or form won on any of the issues you would have beed the first to post the documents for everyone to read!

Second when the attorney called for the local and asked the International and AA not to pursue the Attorney fees this was a sure bet.

Third their has been no evidence to disproof this other than the typical half truths you are posting! why not post the rest of the letters in response to your posts that was also posted on the web? at www.twuatd.org typical from you!

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[RV4]

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On 7/8/2003 141 PM jake wrote:

First, you have helped spread the false rumor that 3400 people did not receive a PIN thereby affecting the outcome of the vote. Let’s look at the truth. The TWU submitted uncontested evidence showing that only 699 people in both ratifications (joint and mechanic) complained about not receiving pin numbers and most of those were taken care of.
----------------​

Isn't it wonderful how the data and facts change with the TWU? Are we splitting and parsing words like Bill Clinton now? 699 Complained, but the database comparison of AAA showed over 3000.

Here is another e-mail from Jim Little stating that "OVER 3000" did not get PIN's!


A question from many members to Jim Little 4-24-03
A question from many members to Jim Little 4-24-03

Q: I would like to know how come only now it is important to point out that 3000 or so members did not have a chance to vote and you people didn't bring this up earlier? Why is it so important to have a revote when nothing has really changed?
Did you know that backrupcy courts allow companies to give upper management retention bonuses? check it out! after this does not pass, we will have less and management will have more. I find it hard to believe that you are looking out for my interest any more then the company.

A: Your E-mail was forwarded to my office and since I have received a number of similar E-mails I thought you would like a response: The reason we only know recently that approximately 3000 member did not receive pin numbers was information compared to the AAA data base. I still have not received the breakdown of votes by station from AAA.

I can assure you that we are well aware of management compensation in bankruptcy. we only have to look at United and Mr. Tilton. I stated that in the last paragraph of my letter that bankruptcy should be avoided. However, we cannot sign an agreement that was perjured. The Company blatantly lied to every employee, and therefore a revote is in order. The whole world is watching and the credibility of our membership and labor is important. Since the APFA is re-voting what choice do we have? This about dignity and respect. The Company squeezed us in the end, and never gave us the opportunity to discuss duration, equity and then slammed us with the 1/2 sick days. Then on April first came out with the management concessions that in no way resembled shared equity. If that was not enough, after ratification we now find out about the bonuses. I ask you can we trust them. We are all fighting to keep our company and the membership out of bankruptcy. I wonder if AA's plan is not to strip our agreements and file for bankruptcy anyway. If that is the case we are better going in with the 2001 agreement. I have struggled with this question. Despite all of our efforts the company just slapped our members in the face AGAIN. I believe it is right to give our membership a chance to revote this agreement as a number of lives will be impacted no matter which way this goes.
Sincerely and fraternally,
Jim
James C. Little
Director Air Transport Division.

View the TWU Local 514 Archive for yourself:

[url="http://www.twu514.org/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi?flavor=archive&id=20030423103046&list=TWU514"]http://www.twu514.org/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cg...046&list=TWU514[/URL]

 

[Checking it Out]

Bob wrote;
AA was in better shape than both USAIR and UAL. Why did they end up with a better deal in BK than we did out of BK?
Bob how do you think this?
If you are unemployed and watching work leave in floods out the door! How can anyone be better off?
I believe the TWU members are more than happy to have a job! This is more than obvious right now!
Bob what will you do if you get your wish and the bases are eliminated? I think if this should happen I would be more than happy to exercise my seniority and bump you out!
Amfa will not be here too red circle you ass. Like they did at NWA.
Also you guys complain about the vote. The courts have said twice we would be better off to stay out of bankruptcy you still are unable to comprehend this?
Also please tell us why amfa International stepped in and voided their last Constitution Convention with no vote of the Membership?

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 7/8/2003 6:30:07 PM Checking it Out wrote:



If you are unemployed and watching work leave in floods out the door! How can anyone be better off?

People still work at UAL and USAIR, and they went BK. What makes you think that we would all lose our jobs? Because the company threatened us? Why would the company send out more than they already do? Our OSMs are already "competatively" priced.

I believe the TWU members are more than happy to have a job! This is more than obvious right now!


Yes, we can see that with the ever rising AMFA card count, they already have over 40%.

Bob what will you do if you get your wish and the bases are eliminated? I think if this should happen I would be more than happy to exercise my seniority and bump you out!

Dont tell me what I wish for.
Bump me out and come to NY? Go right ahead, by the way you will have to find at least $350,000 for a house, or you could pay around $1800/month for rent.


Also you guys complain about the vote. The courts have said twice we would be better off to stay out of bankruptcy you still are unable to comprehend this?

Seems to me I remember many comments complaining about the Bush vote a couple of years ago. Well I guess you guys figured if you cant beat them join them, the corruptable system put in place by Little makes the Florida ballots look honest. Who needs pregnant chads when you have sequential PINS and delete thousands from the vote?
Also please tell us why amfa International stepped in and voided their last Constitution Convention with no vote of the Membership?

Did they? I have no idea. Why havent we recieved the minutes from the TWU 2001 Convention, you know the one that left our "right" to vote on any agreement in place although they dont adhere to it?



​

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/8/2003 6:30:07 PM Checking it Out wrote:


Bob wrote;
AA was in better shape than both USAIR and UAL. Why did they end up with a better deal in BK than we did out of BK?
Bob how do you think this?
If you are unemployed and watching work leave in floods out the door! How can anyone be better off?
I believe the TWU members are more than happy to have a job! This is more than obvious right now!
Bob what will you do if you get your wish and the bases are eliminated? I think if this should happen I would be more than happy to exercise my seniority and bump you out!
Amfa will not be here too red circle you ass. Like they did at NWA.
Also you guys complain about the vote. The courts have said twice we would be better off to stay out of bankruptcy you still are unable to comprehend this?
Also please tell us why amfa International stepped in and voided their last Constitution Convention with no vote of the Membership?

TWU SOLIDARITY!



----------------​

I for one would enjoy watching your selfish ass try to survive in New York with your current pay and your Okie attitude.

I dont have a license but I will sure go just to watch this one!

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/8/2003 605 PM Checking it Out wrote:


Dave First off, the accuracy of the post that jake posted is the truth! How do I know Simple. If the Supports in NY would have in any way, shape or form won on any of the issues you would have beed the first to post the documents for everyone to read!

Second when the attorney called for the local and asked the International and AA not to pursue the Attorney fees this was a sure bet.

Third their has been no evidence to disproof this other than the typical half truths you are posting! why not post the rest of the letters in response to your posts that was also posted on the web? at www.twuatd.org typical from you!

TWU SOLIDARITY!


----------------​

OK,

So the TWU Local 514 e-mail system is FULL OF LIES then?

 

[toroshark]

Is it true that RV4 does not have a A/P license? Does RV4 have a FCC license at least? Just curious about the background as I consider the arguements.

 

[jake]

----------------
On 7/9/2003 939 AM toroshark wrote:

Is it true that RV4 does not have a A/P license? Does RV4 have a FCC license at least? Just curious about the background as I consider the arguements.

----------------​

The answer to you question is that Dave (RV4) is a welder in Tulsa. No A&P, No FCC, maybe I should've waited for him to respond.

 

[twuer]

To "Bob" and RV4. . .I''m afraid (for your sakes) that "Jake" was correct, though long winded! I have seen all the evidence to verify it. I''m new to the boards, could you fill me in on your positions. Are you paying TWU dues? Elected officials, what? By reading the past posts it appears to me that you two guys are a bit disgruntled with the whole TWU thing. Am I correct in assuming this? And forgive me for saying this, but you seem a bit pissed off that you lost the law suit. I am pondering both AMFA and TWU at this point but have seen NO evidence to sway me toward the AMFA side. You (being AMFA)talk about the job you guys are doing at NW, well, didn''t they out-source their labor overseas recently? Or is this something I just "heard"? And what about the new contract (pre 9-11)that TWU got for you (us). Many people worked long and hard to ensure that the members would get what was coming to them. I myself appreciated the pay raise. Noone, let me repeat, NOONE could have predicted 9-11. The reason for the big downturn in the whole airline industry. It seemed to snowball from there. Being a due-paying member of the TWU, I have faith in those I have elected to run this union. So far they haven''t let me down. Can you honestly say the same about the AMFA leaders? And do you honestly think that Bankruptcy would have been the better solution? Let''s put even more people out of a job!! And any union that will send work over seas is not portraying the true meaning of "union" to me. I would like to hear your comments. . .even from you "Jake" and any other TWU supporter. Do you have anything else to add on the TWU behalf???

in union solidarity. . .
TWUer

 

[RV4]

 

[RV4]

Talk about mis-information and hiding facts!

I notice Local 514 already deleted the archived e-mail I posted earlier where Jim Little admitted over 3000 members did not get to vote on the contract!

And don't think we didn't save our own archives of this data.

Yesterday you could read the truth...

This is all you get from their site today:

Entry Not Available
The Archived message you're trying to find isn't there.
You might want to e-mail the list owner at: webmaster@twu514.org with your problem
Go back to TWU 514
L I A R S, and I N F O R M A T I O N deletion.

I think that speaks wonders about the TWU and their industrial union ways.

ROFLMAO

Here is the post that triggered the deletion of information from the Local 514 e-mail Archives:


A question from many members to Jim Little 4-24-03
A question from many members to Jim Little 4-24-03

Q: I would like to know how come only now it is important to point out that 3000 or so members did not have a chance to vote and you people didn't bring this up earlier? Why is it so important to have a revote when nothing has really changed?
Did you know that backrupcy courts allow companies to give upper management retention bonuses? check it out! after this does not pass, we will have less and management will have more. I find it hard to believe that you are looking out for my interest any more then the company.

A: Your E-mail was forwarded to my office and since I have received a number of similar E-mails I thought you would like a response: The reason we only know recently that approximately 3000 member did not receive pin numbers was information compared to the AAA data base. I still have not received the breakdown of votes by station from AAA.

I can assure you that we are well aware of management compensation in bankruptcy. we only have to look at United and Mr. Tilton. I stated that in the last paragraph of my letter that bankruptcy should be avoided. However, we cannot sign an agreement that was perjured. The Company blatantly lied to every employee, and therefore a revote is in order. The whole world is watching and the credibility of our membership and labor is important. Since the APFA is re-voting what choice do we have? This about dignity and respect. The Company squeezed us in the end, and never gave us the opportunity to discuss duration, equity and then slammed us with the 1/2 sick days. Then on April first came out with the management concessions that in no way resembled shared equity. If that was not enough, after ratification we now find out about the bonuses. I ask you can we trust them. We are all fighting to keep our company and the membership out of bankruptcy. I wonder if AA's plan is not to strip our agreements and file for bankruptcy anyway. If that is the case we are better going in with the 2001 agreement. I have struggled with this question. Despite all of our efforts the company just slapped our members in the face AGAIN. I believe it is right to give our membership a chance to revote this agreement as a number of lives will be impacted no matter which way this goes.
Sincerely and fraternally,
Jim
James C. Little
Director Air Transport Division.

View the TWU Local 514 Archive for yourself:

[url="http://www.twu514.org/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi?flavor=archive&id=20030423103046&list=TWU514"]http://www.twu514.org/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cg...046&list=TWU514[/URL]

 

[Checking it Out]

Checking it Out wrote;
Also please tell us why amfa International stepped in and voided their last Constitution Convention with no vote of the Membership?

amfa Bob Owens response;
Did they? I have no idea. Why havent we recieved the minutes from the TWU 2001 Convention, you know the one that left our "right" to vote on any agreement in place although they dont adhere to it?

Bob now this is a bright response? you are the one that has been pushing for amfa for years on many websites and you don''t even understand who you are supporting? Looks stupid to me!

Look up article 33 of the constitution! By the way everyone! Bob''s President also voted to suspend the voting procedures during the last Contract vote which in turn the membership elected him! Looks stupid again doesn''t he? oh yes, local 514 has been passing out the new Constitution to its members for a long time. Bob, maybe you need to ask your President about why he doesn''t inform you and the members of this? Looks stupid again!

Mis-Information Typical amfa hype!

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[jake]

Dave, I guess I didn’t take it slow enough for you! Let’s re-cap shall we? The Presidents council resolution had nothing to do with making the full text agreement available to the membership. It was simply to restructure the requirement to have the agreement available 30 days prior to ratification and to eliminate, on a one-time basis the requirement to have a mail ballot. The council left it up to Mr. Little as to what company to use. He chose Triple A because they are recognized by the Department of Labor, and are the most commonly used outside ballot association. Once again, the Bulletin from Mr. McDonald associated with the E-mail from Mr. Little and Mr. Yingst, had nothing to do with the vote that was taken at the Presidents council. The Director’s Update and bulletin information were explaining the reason voting was suspended on 5-09-03. The voting was re-started on 5-10-03 after appropriate questions had been answered.

Now Dave, show me the database which you reference. The information contained in Mr. Little’s 4-24-03 E-mail was preliminary data from Triple A. After 4-24-03 Mr. Little asked Triple A for a comprehensive breakdown of all of the issues surrounding the vote. They provided to the TWU a report that stated 699 complaints were gathered system wide, for both “Joint†and “Mechanic & Related†ratifications. In addition, as was explained at our union meetings, a comprehensive comparison of data bases and mailing lists was also made by AAA which showed only 300 (out of over 30,000 eligible) members in both ratifications had not been sent PINs by the time the voting was done. So how is it that you can claim that 3400 members didn’t get a chance? Is your math a little fuzzy? The results show that out of 15,825 eligible mechanics, only 2,486 did not vote. Your AMFA supporting pukes had close to 90 days to submit evidence on all the allegations, but provided none. What the judge found was that neither the TWU or AAA did anything improper or illegal during the ratification.

Find something to prove me wrong because right now you are looking like the fool and liar that you claim not to be. I am the TWU, that’s why I have taken it upon myself to challenge all the lies and discontent that you help spread. I will always maintain that people like you and your cronies are the jerks (uninformed as you may be) that help destroy work of many good labor people. You certainly have the right to disagree with the Union on issues, but to try to destroy it by lying and spinning the truth is not the sign of a man that is concerned with his colleagues’ futures.

 

[twuer]

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On 7/9/2003 5:07:33 PM RV4 wrote:




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Didn''t here from you RV4. A bit on the defensive aren''t you?? Do you have anything in writing, that is good, from AMFA?? "Jake" is whippin'' your tail buddy. I need some solid eveidence from you. What can AMFA do for me that TWU isn''t? Work with me here. . .