mechanics lose in court

[Checking it Out]

How many times did the judge Indicate the TWU members would be worse off in Bankruptcy during the proceedings?

The TWU Members voted to ratify the agreement and the errors were not enough to change the outcome of the vote.

The Judge Indicated AA and the TWU International had every right to pursue Attorney fees from these Individuals who had a baseless Lawsuit.

The attorneys for the locals called and asked this not be done!

I here rumors from some of Bobs friends that local 562 is now being looked at for mis-appropriating funds for use other than their intended porpose and That Bob Owens is spending time home when he is on the clock and about diverting funds for personal use.

Everytime the amfa supports go up against the TWU they have lost or settled out of court. Why is this? I suspect because the majority is incompitant!

I do not see how anyone would ever consider amfa! knowing these individuals above might make it in to represent someone! Help us all if this should happen!

Miss. Dave! I think you missed your mark!




HAVE A HAPPY
FORTH OF JULY
WEEKEND!

ALL YOU BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE TWU AND ALL
OTHER UNIONS AFFILIATED WITH THE AFL-CIO!


TWU SOLIDARITY GOES ALONG WAY!

 

[Hopeful]

but of course, had the judge ruled in favor of the local 562 mechanics, she would have been a damn good judge who knows the law.

 

[James T. Kirk]

Bob Owens and Dave Stewart I never knew how dishonest two people could be until I read the postings about the Judge''s rejection of your lawsuit yesterday. I have read the press reports and even talked to reporters who were there. The Judge stated that Sonny Hall''s interpretation of the Constitution that not every single modification of an agreement had to be sent out for system wide ratification, particularly when the modifications were clearly improvements, was reasonable. She said that Local 562''s claim that every time you made any sort of modification in a contract that you had to revote the whole contract made very little sense. I understand she rejected every other claim Local 562 made.

What is more important is that the Judge found that everyone, including all TWU represented employees, and the pilots, and the flight attendants would have done worse in bankruptcy. She apparently believed that this was beyond question. And this Judge is from the same Court where American would have filed for bankruptcy. So much for all of your lies and foolishness about doing better in bankruptcy. That has always been a lie.

A few days ago, the Court handling the flight attendants'' lawsuit also ruled that everyone at American would have done worse in bankruptcy. The reason you people still peddle the "better off in bankruptcy" lie is, had we gone into bankruptcy, the TWU would have been responsible for the lost jobs, lost health care, and lost pension. If that had happened, you would be attacking the TWU for a different reason. The fact is that it doesn''t matter to either of you how many people lose their jobs or lose their benefits, so long as you achieve your ultimate goal of destroying the TWU. That is the real truth, and I can only hope that, as an AA mechanic, I am never in a position where either of you are making decisions that could affect me or my family.

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/3/2003 3:55:24 PM jake wrote:

Hey idiot,
The TWU International told you exactly what was going to happen in court, and it did! You can't seem to get it through your rock hard head that our legal folks are not beginners. If you had any sense and any balls you would have told the truth, revealed all the information and if at least you were semi honest, you could've saved your membership the expense of being made fools of in front of the entire country!

P.S.

May be Seham could've done better!! ha ha

----------------​

I dont see where the membership were made fools?

Explain your thinking?

You appear to be a fool that believes everything the TWU International tells you, I hope they dont tell you to stand up for your rights. That would leave your coward brain waves, scrathing your head, your ass, and your groin.

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/4/2003 10:35:43 AM James T. Kirk wrote:


Bob Owens and Dave Stewart I never knew how dishonest two people could be until I read the postings about the Judge's rejection of your lawsuit yesterday. I have read the press reports and even talked to reporters who were there. The Judge stated that Sonny Hall's interpretation of the Constitution that not every single modification of an agreement had to be sent out for system wide ratification, particularly when the modifications were clearly improvements, was reasonable. She said that Local 562's claim that every time you made any sort of modification in a contract that you had to revote the whole contract made very little sense. I understand she rejected every other claim Local 562 made.
----------------​

Why dont you post copies or references to all of these "press reports" you have read, that make these claims?

Quote and Name the "reporter" you spoke with and give us a reference.

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/4/2003 10:35:43 AM James T. Kirk wrote:


Bob Owens and Dave Stewart I never knew how dishonest two people could be until I read the postings about the Judge's rejection of your lawsuit yesterday

The fact is that it doesn't matter to either of you how many people lose their jobs or lose their benefits, so long as you achieve your ultimate goal of destroying the TWU. That is the real truth, and I can only hope that, as an AA mechanic, I am never in a position where either of you are making decisions that could affect me or my family.
----------------
​

I am not trying to "destroy the TWU", they are doing a fine job of that themselves, without my interference.

I am simply attempting to replace them as our bargaining agent. You're the one being dishonest! The only reason the TWU would be damaged by AA Mechanics leaving is becuase they represent no other major, and have a history that is concession based ignorance. And you think that is mine and Bob's fault? Yeah right!

My question is this:

If AMFA sucks so bad, and the TWU is superior, why is there NOT a TWU card drive a Northwest? The Northwest Mechanics are not restricted by the Commie AFL-CIO no-raid clause. The NMB bar is passed for them to change unions.

Why dont you go up there to Northwest, sell your concessions in exchange for jobs and save all those mechanics from themselves. You surely are not just selfish and want the superior TWU all to yourself do you?

I think the proof is in the advancement of AMFA in the industry while the TWU holds One Major Carrier and leads the industry backwards in pay and benefits on a continuous schedule.

If the TWU was so superior, why did the Horizon Mechanics vote to DUMP the TWU in favor of AMFA?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Bob Owens and Dave Stewart I never knew how dishonest two people could be until I read the postings about the Judge''s rejection of your lawsuit yesterday. I have read the press reports and even talked to reporters who were there. The Judge stated that Sonny Hall''s interpretation of the Constitution that not every single modification of an agreement had to be sent out for system wide ratification, particularly when the modifications were clearly improvements, was reasonable. She said that Local 562''s claim that every time you made any sort of modification in a contract that you had to revote the whole contract made very little sense. I understand she rejected every other claim Local 562 made.

What is more important is that the Judge found that everyone, including all TWU represented employees, and the pilots, and the flight attendants would have done worse in bankruptcy. She apparently believed that this was beyond question. And this Judge is from the same Court where American would have filed for bankruptcy. So much for all of your lies and foolishness about doing better in bankruptcy. That has always been a lie.

A few days ago, the Court handling the flight attendants'' lawsuit also ruled that everyone at American would have done worse in bankruptcy. The reason you people still peddle the "better off in bankruptcy" lie is, had we gone into bankruptcy, the TWU would have been responsible for the lost jobs, lost health care, and lost pension. If that had happened, you would be attacking the TWU for a different reason. The fact is that it doesn''t matter to either of you how many people lose their jobs or lose their benefits, so long as you achieve your ultimate goal of destroying the TWU. That is the real truth, and I can only hope that, as an AA mechanic, I am never in a position where either of you are making decisions that could affect me or my family.




James T. Kirk



Kirk,
Your circular thinking is quite unbelievable.
It has always been my understanding that judges were ''supposed'' to rule on a case based on it''s merits (Justice!) rather than their own perception of how their ruling would effect an entity (or thier career). You expound the problems in our society when you side with injustice, and due process as long as it does not affect commerce (or you).

Get Off Your Knees!!!
IMHO,
UT

 

[RV4]

UAL_TECH,

James T Kirk and the rest of the cowards from the TWU are not interested in FAIR rulings from Judges based on LAW, they only want FAVORABLE rulings based on FEAR!

 

[FWAAA]

----------------
On 7/5/2003 8:30:02 PM RV4 wrote:


UAL_TECH,

 James T Kirk and the rest of the cowards from the TWU are not interested in FAIR rulings from Judges based on LAW, they only want FAVORABLE rulings based on FEAR!

----------------​

Hope you know welding better than you know the law of equitable relief (like injunctions).

If you knew thing one about law, then you''d understand that the judges have ruled according to law. When seeking an injunction, not only must the moving party demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits, but must also demonstrate irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted. Since the TWU locals and the FAs did not show irreparable harm (and AA proved it would be harmed beyond repair if the injunction were granted now), the judges made the only lawful decision. The injunctions sought against AA were correctly denied.

If, after trials on the merits, the TWU locals and the FAs prevail, then the judges can order relief. Until then, the status quo is the only lawful decision.

Too bad the TWU''s lawyers and FA''s lawyers haven''t been able to convince you of that legal reality.

 

[Buck]

----------------
On 7/5/2003 1001 PM FWAAA wrote:

----------------
On 7/5/2003 8:30:02 PM RV4 wrote:



UAL_TECH,

 James T Kirk and the rest of the cowards from the TWU are not interested in FAIR rulings from Judges based on LAW, they only want FAVORABLE rulings based on FEAR!

----------------​

Hope you know welding better than you know the law of equitable relief (like injunctions).

If you knew thing one about law, then you''d understand that the judges have ruled according to law. When seeking an injunction, not only must the moving party demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits, but must also demonstrate irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted. Since the TWU locals and the FAs did not show irreparable harm (and AA proved it would be harmed beyond repair if the injunction were granted now), the judges made the only lawful decision. The injunctions sought against AA were correctly denied.

If, after trials on the merits, the TWU locals and the FAs prevail, then the judges can order relief. Until then, the status quo is the only lawful decision.

Too bad the TWU''s lawyers and FA''s lawyers haven''t been able to convince you of that legal reality.

----------------​

I may not know much about the law, but I do understand what you are saying. However how the judge rules is immaterial when we as the mechanic and related of the TWU have been harmed by the actions or inactions of the organization itself. To sue yourself is somewhat awkward in itself. Those individuals that did not receive a ballot and then where told it did not matter because no damage was done, must see it in the opposite.

 

[AAmech]

----------------
On 7/6/2003 6:39:59 AM RV4 wrote:

I have NO DOUBT that the TWU Constitution and therefore the LAW allows for Sonny the Bus Driver Hall to dictate terms of our contracts. That is why I seek and support the AMFA!


----------------​

Having "Delle the Real Estate Agent" dictate our contract terms would be better?

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 7/5/2003 1001 PM FWAAA wrote:

----------------
On 7/5/2003 8:30:02 PM RV4 wrote:



UAL_TECH,

James T Kirk and the rest of the cowards from the TWU are not interested in FAIR rulings from Judges based on LAW, they only want FAVORABLE rulings based on FEAR!

----------------​

Hope you know welding better than you know the law of equitable relief (like injunctions).

If you knew thing one about law, then you'd understand that the judges have ruled according to law. When seeking an injunction, not only must the moving party demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits, but must also demonstrate irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted. Since the TWU locals and the FAs did not show irreparable harm (and AA proved it would be harmed beyond repair if the injunction were granted now), the judges made the only lawful decision. The injunctions sought against AA were correctly denied.

If, after trials on the merits, the TWU locals and the FAs prevail, then the judges can order relief. Until then, the status quo is the only lawful decision.

Too bad the TWU's lawyers and FA's lawyers haven't been able to convince you of that legal reality.

----------------​

I hope you are better at living life than your are at reading and comprehension.

I never claimed the ruling was not based on law. I claimed some cowards favor certain rulings!

I have NO DOUBT that the TWU Constitution and therefore the LAW allows for Sonny the Bus Driver Hall to dictate terms of our contracts. That is why I seek and support the AMFA!

I don't need to be convinced of anything. You are the one with an obvious lacking in certain basic skills required to hold a educated debate on an internet bulletin board. i.e. Read and Comprehend?

HELLO?

 

[Buck]

----------------
On 7/6/2003 7:49:12 AM AAmech wrote:

----------------
On 7/6/2003 6:39:59 AM RV4 wrote:

I have NO DOUBT that the TWU Constitution and therefore the LAW allows  for Sonny the Bus Driver Hall to dictate terms of our contracts. That is why I seek and support the AMFA!


----------------​

Having  "Delle the Real Estate Agent" dictate our contract terms would be better?

----------------​

Could you explain your comment?

 

[Buck]

Only if you CIO and those like you who have no desire to lead will cause those pushing AMFA to gain leadership positions. This something that has been lost to the TWU membership, the urge to participate. Those that are afraid of democracy and real member participation will always fail to change when change is needed. You can spout all you want about the Constitutional differences between the TWU and AMFA, but you know when it comes to a Constitution that supports the Mechanic Craft and Class, AMFA is the only choice. What has the TWU accomplished for its membership in the last 20 years? Concessions at every turn. The only wage gain TWU saw was that gained by American Airlines when AMFA set the pace. Your continual support of the Industrial Unionism philosophies, whereby the Fleet Service have continually made their gains at the expense of the Mechanic Craft and Class is Socialistic at its core. If you are of the Mechanic Craft and Class and you believe in your profession, then stand up for that craft. You could just resign your Inspection position and lateral over to a union leadership position for the Fleet Service? While issues in the industry are important, you need to focus on the issues facing the unionized workforce of American Airlines. At least do that much. Even if your fight is for the TWU focus your energy on preventing any more concessions at the company you work for. Quit worrying about Northwest and Southwest and AMFA, because you and I know that the AMFA is not a threat. Or did you relate a different story at the last Local 514 union meeting?

 

[Checking it Out]

Who Runs AMFA? This is the Million Dollar Question!

Local Autonomy? None Available Here!
Except when it comes to needing Money or help!

They say you do, but the reality is all unions are controlled by the National Union''s leadership. AMFA is no different. The control that the National Union has over the union membership is repeatedly spelled out in AMFA''s new constitution. These provisions in AMFA''s constitution aren''t put there by mistake. They are designed to guarantee that all Local Unions set up by AMFA remain under the absolute final control of AMFA''s National leadership. And, you would be legally bound to follow AMFA Constitution. Here''s what AMFA''s constitution says:

• Article II, Section 1, AMFA''s National Director (O.V. Delle-Femine) has the power to "grant charters, preside over the approval of Local Bylaws and the assigning of new Locals to the region in which they can be best represented."
  Article II, Section 4, AMFA''s National Treasurer has the power "to audit the books of any or all Locals, with due cause as determined by a majority vote of the National Executive Council and upon his demand a Local shall turn over to him all such books and records."
  Article VIII, Section 9, spells out the power that AMFA''s National Executive Council has over any of its Local Unions: "A Local shall be subject to revocation or expulsion for any of the following actions or omissions:
  
  1. Failure to perform duties as provided in this Constitution
  
  2. Violation of any provisions of this Constitution
  
  3. Insubordination with respect to valid orders or directives of Officers and/or Convention of the National Association
  
  4. Circulation of libelous or slanderous statements concerning any officers or members of this Association
  
  5. Failure to otherwise carry out the legitimate objectives of this Association."
  Article VIII, Section 10: Local Union officers can be put on trial and reprimanded, removed from office, or suspended from office for any of the following offenses: "incompetence, negligence, or insubordination in performance of duty or refusal or failure to perform duties validly assigned."

They say you will run your own union? Yes, AMFA''s constitution guarantees you that you will have the right to vote on your local union matters, and local union leadership, but the reality is, even at the Local Union level, you will have very little say in "union affairs." Article IX, Section 5 provides suggested quorum rules (the minimum number of Local members who must be present at any meeting to conduct Local Union business). For Locals with more than 1750, but less than 2000 members, as few as 17 people can constitute a quorum. Almost all of AMFA''s voting is decided by a majority of people actually attending a meeting. This means that as few as 9 employees can make significant decisions affecting union affairs and your job.
If AMFA got voted in, who do you think would end up as your local union leaders? In reality, the people who are currently pushing the Union will very likely end up as your Local Union leaders. Look around. Are these really the people you want having enormous power over your job rights?

Ask Alaska Mechanics what happens when they are promised Attorneys during Negotiations?
Ask them about Baseball Style Negotiations?
Ask them about their Future Retirement plans?

Compliments of The-Mechanic