Management Raises
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BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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- #47
openview,
I'll agree that some employees are easier to replace than others and if the non-union mid and lower level folks took a bigger hit proportionally in previous concessions, they deserve to be balanced out. Likewise, if the unions are getting negotiated increases, these folks should get the same proportional raise.
Where we disagree is the theory that because some needed more training, experience, education, or whatever they should be immune to cuts or receive proportionally bigger raises. There is no one at this company that can't be replaced, from the lowest to the highest.
Jim
I'll agree that some employees are easier to replace than others and if the non-union mid and lower level folks took a bigger hit proportionally in previous concessions, they deserve to be balanced out. Likewise, if the unions are getting negotiated increases, these folks should get the same proportional raise.
Where we disagree is the theory that because some needed more training, experience, education, or whatever they should be immune to cuts or receive proportionally bigger raises. There is no one at this company that can't be replaced, from the lowest to the highest.
Jim
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Answer: Jerry Glass needs to change his hard stance against employees. Stop protecting his department "crazies", that he doesn't like to over ride them when they are blatantly WRONG. Its embarrassing.jack mama said:
And tell him to please Listen first, before his mouth starts moving. He always convinces himself that he is right and never listens to the other side. Take the employees side even once in awhile. Train his department to discern what "mitigating circumstances" means!
Change the heavy-handed culture up there ASAP.
And he needs to apologize to the AFA PIT President for a recent event. Only then will the feeling of distain start to desipate for all of management including the CEO. There can be no forward movement on no "going forward plan" with this type of animosity between Labor relations and the employees. In my mind's eye, his arrogance and attitude is the biggest obsticle at U.
PS: And give the MMS dept employees "time away" (unpaid)
PITbull:
Please remember that the majority of the "management" people that will receive these raises are admin reps, analysts, and technical specialists, many of whom earn less than the flight attendants you represent. These people have also experienced whopping 15% total salary growth over the last ten or fifteen years. Don't lump these people in with the managers and above. They are front line employees just like the ones you represent.
While I agree that changes in certain specific management postions that are unable or unwilling to adapt would be benficial, the same argument can be made for our union organization. Many of our managers (on both sides) are valuable and should be kept. Others need to go. As for our union employees moving up into these jobs if they are offered. Would you give up the protection of a contract under the current situation for a job which could be yanked out from under you tomorrow? I won't.
Please remember that the majority of the "management" people that will receive these raises are admin reps, analysts, and technical specialists, many of whom earn less than the flight attendants you represent. These people have also experienced whopping 15% total salary growth over the last ten or fifteen years. Don't lump these people in with the managers and above. They are front line employees just like the ones you represent.
While I agree that changes in certain specific management postions that are unable or unwilling to adapt would be benficial, the same argument can be made for our union organization. Many of our managers (on both sides) are valuable and should be kept. Others need to go. As for our union employees moving up into these jobs if they are offered. Would you give up the protection of a contract under the current situation for a job which could be yanked out from under you tomorrow? I won't.
Thowing bags on a planae!!!!!That's a good one. How insulting can one get. i would say, that alot of the passengergers who are flying uS would love to have there bags thrown n the plane and meet their destination. By, the way can your mamma cook an apple pie as well as I can. :down:
Mweiss: Since you don't work here, you can not being to Understand how Seniorty works on any leval. In all departments the Company has messed with Seniorty. And yes, they have continuted to lay off in Seniorty order. I don't believe grievances of that sort come into play. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong. :angry:
BoeingBoy. They should. You obviously worked hard to become a pilot. And continue to have to work at it in training, classes, certifications, knowledge etc. No different than the engineer getting his masters or a IT programmer required to learn a new software language. Unions ask all to share in the pain equally. Yet the risks and rewards are not equal.
Harry Callahan
Veteran
This is a great post. Other than the suspending from cables,(thank God we don't do that) everything else said in there could also be changed to fleet service. Till you people live our jobs you have no idea. For one dime less this work is not worth it.pitguy said:
Thanks pitguy for a very well said post.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #59
Just so it's clear, the Managers that I'm talking aren't specialists in any way, and I'd be surprised if they have a 4 year degree let alone an advanced degree. A lot of the Managers are getting new titles, but their job duties have remained the same. A look at the COBs shows that there are now several Director jobs in PHL that were never there before. There used to be only one Director, and he was the Station Director who was in charge of the entire station. It looks like the Shift Managers on the ramp are now going to be called Ramp Managers, and the old Ramp Manager (there was only one) is now going to be called Director of Ramp Operations.openview said:
One last point on the raises that were supposedly given out. These raises are an increase of over 25% for these Managers. I don't want anyone to think that these Managers were already making a lot of money, and the increase was only 10%. These Managers were making in the $55,000 range before the raises.
"Start thinking intelligently. Just as management states they need to retain folks to prevent an exodus, they are not treating labor the same way. Why?"
Becaue they(management) are voting with their feet and leaving. Mangement is leaving everyday and looking for a job that will pay them what they think they are worth. They are not afraid to say "shove this job." Union labor on the other hand is not leaving. Union labor is not leaving because either they are trapped here by a lack of ability to find another job that pays at the level they are used to, their personal situation prevents them from leaving, or they lack the initiative to leave and find a job that pays them what they think they are worth. If you are afraid to leave, do not have the determination to improve your skills, then you are destined to work for the wages that someone else dictates to you. The market will dictate the wages labor is paid. You can fight and rage against it, I respect your determination, but in the end you will be paid at the level the market demands for your particular skill set.
Becaue they(management) are voting with their feet and leaving. Mangement is leaving everyday and looking for a job that will pay them what they think they are worth. They are not afraid to say "shove this job." Union labor on the other hand is not leaving. Union labor is not leaving because either they are trapped here by a lack of ability to find another job that pays at the level they are used to, their personal situation prevents them from leaving, or they lack the initiative to leave and find a job that pays them what they think they are worth. If you are afraid to leave, do not have the determination to improve your skills, then you are destined to work for the wages that someone else dictates to you. The market will dictate the wages labor is paid. You can fight and rage against it, I respect your determination, but in the end you will be paid at the level the market demands for your particular skill set.
