Management at US and UA--The Good the Bad and the Ugly

[philly rocks]

Bravo Art. You can state this until you are blue in the face but please don't let certain individuals get the best of you. The old timers (probably 90pct of us on usaviation) are in total agreement. Freedom and others need some more years of experience with the company before it will sink in so we just ignore them. You are a very valuable player with our company and your FFocus group has gone out of their way to try and explain this to the upper crust but unfortunately they are still blind sighted by two words---Corporate Greed. The more they reap the more they want more. Eventually someone will enter the equation and figure out that happy employees and customers make for a very lucrative business.

 

[luvthe9]

Freedom,

I DID have a vested interest in US until your crack management team drove me away by making bad decisions.

I am no fan boy--never was. I was a concerned customer who was not afraid to get involved and advocate for customers AND employees. I had (and still have to most carriers) enough influence to get face to face meetings with senior management, and the organization that Piney Bob, other loyal customers and I started 6 years ago has been an effective voice for both--and we now number well over 1000 members.

You choose to be blind to the truth--I respect that. Believe whatever you want to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Doug Parker is not the brilliant leader you think him to be, and neither is Scott.

I am not going to prolong this discussion, and continue arguing with you, but I will end this by saying that Doug and company consider the employees and the customers a liability rather than an asset. They can say whatever they want but their actions speak louder than words.

The only way ANY company will succeed today is to prioritize as follows:

EMPLOYEES FIRST -- Make the employees happy and they will go the extra mile-they'll be more productive, reducing costs, and will go out of their way to make the customers happy.

CUSTOMERS SECOND -- Customers pay the bills. When you take care of the FIRST, the SECOND is much easier. Happy customers keep coming back--brings in more revenue, makes the company more profitable...therefore

SHAREHOLDERS THIRD -- When you take care of FIRST and SECOND successfully, THIRD takes care of itself......

Until Doug realizes this there is no way he can succeed long term.

He should learn from REAL leaders like Gordon Bethune, Herb Kelleher and Larry Kellner.

Nuff said.

100% right Art, The morons at America West will never figure it out, Parker needs some rehab!!! Freedom must be drinking with Parker or has his or her head in the sand all the way.

 

[FlightChic]

Bravo Art. You can state this until you are blue in the face but please don't let certain individuals get the best of you. The old timers (probably 90pct of us on usaviation) are in total agreement. Freedom and others need some more years of experience with the company before it will sink in so we just ignore them. You are a very valuable player with our company and your FFocus group has gone out of their way to try and explain this to the upper crust but unfortunately they are still blind sighted by two words---Corporate Greed. The more they reap the more they want more. Eventually someone will enter the equation and figure out that happy employees and customers make for a very lucrative business.

I agree with you and Art.

 

[freedom]

.

Gordon M. Bethune chairman of aloha ?that one company that just shut it’s doors?

..Art you sound like you’d make a great labor leader , but here and now that’s just not what we need , we need sound sharp businessmen.


I don’t think parker considers the employee’s to be a liability , nor an assent , merely employees at a company …We’re a business … as such your priorities are completely wrong … it’s

1. CUSTOMERS first … and then perhaps as number 2 it’s workers.. Sure all of us here on avation would like things to be employee’s first , but that’s not how businesses are run , at least not effectively … and yes I know everyone wishes we had started at southwest , or could be more like southwest etc… but we are who we are and those of us working here can’t get back the years of our lives that we’ve invested with this company , so lets just make the best of it and try our hardest to make sure we succeed in this new era of 130 barrel oil and overcapacity ..

To the rest of you “old timers†times are changing VERY quickly … we need people who can KEEP up … I think too many of you are stuck in your ways , your old mindsets …

My priorities are getting paid , and making sure we can continue to get paid ..I’m sorry if you don’t like the level of service declines we’ve seen , but if we have to go to the level of ryan air , as long as we workers continue to be paid fairly I’m fine with it .

The doors stay open !

 

[cltrat]

Art you are 100% right the TACB views employees as necessary evils

 

[SS255]

I think that the 2 go hand-in-hand: Happy employees will want to work hard for their management, and do a good job -- which in turn leads to happy customers.

 

[Art at ISP]

Freedom,

The ideas I presented above were not from labor, they were from management...Herb Kelleher and Larry Kellner, to be specific. It's good business sense--something that's lacking in Tempe.

Doug does not even understand his best customers.. here are some quotes from a Town Hall referring to Chairmans Preferred members, the HIGHEST level--100,000 miles or 120 segments a year ---

"They think because they are chairman, they are above the law"

"Particularly for these guys. It was the last meeting we talked about the real reason we charge these $100 fees. I mean, a lot of it's to collect a hundred dollars, which is always good. Uh, but I mean, honestly, I think you guys probably know this, and it's not just US Airways that does this, the big reason very frequent flyers would buy very cheap tickets and then change them.

It's not so much to charge them $100, it's to keep them from buying very cheap tickets and the Chairman's guys are the ones that would absolutely do that. I would argue the most important people to make sure we enforce the $100 fees on. They really are, they're business passengers who are gonna use that.

This proves Doug does not have a clue who his best customers are--and neither does his team. The same contempt is evident throughout.

There's more than this, and I am trying to find it.

Don't insult the "old timers" here by telling them things are changing. They are changing, and US is ill prepared to survive long term.

You go on believing what you want, and we'll go on believing what most experts say is the truth.

Doug Parker was a good CEO (not great, but good) for a regional airline the size of America West. He did a good job there. When the merger took place, I was quoted in the Wall Street Journal as saying I was optimistic, and had great hopes for Parker and team.
The fact is they are over their heads, and YOU may not see that from where you sit.

Oh-- and I am a manager in sales--with good business and intra personal skills. I support the employees, but not necessarily the unions themselves....and I have put my money where my mouth is.

I can account for about $12 milllion in annual premium revenue which has left US Airways for good....and we tried to help Doug and team save that business, but they knew better.....

Let's just agree to disagree. I will go on living in the real world and you can enjoy working where you do and having your kool aid breaks...since it seems to work for each of us, no need to continue fighting.

Enjoy.

 

[US1YFARE]

Freedom,

"They think because they are chairman, they are above the law"

"Particularly for these guys. It was the last meeting we talked about the real reason we charge these $100 fees. I mean, a lot of it's to collect a hundred dollars, which is always good. Uh, but I mean, honestly, I think you guys probably know this, and it's not just US Airways that does this, the big reason very frequent flyers would buy very cheap tickets and then change them.

It's not so much to charge them $100, it's to keep them from buying very cheap tickets and the Chairman's guys are the ones that would absolutely do that. I would argue the most important people to make sure we enforce the $100 fees on. They really are, they're business passengers who are gonna use that.

I mean really

These jerkoffs think they've figured out something that no other company has figured out--who needs the best customers?

I really wish you would post more of these inflammatory quotes so that those VFF's remaining would realize how despised they are by the arrogant POS in Tempe.

 

[dexter]

WOW, 12 million dollar loss? That is only one company -makes you wonder, scrimping on snacks and baggage charges and change fees to probably make up for the loss and make the passengers even more miserable. This company must start thinking outside the box and get to work to equalize everything. Customers/Employees/Fares/Snacks etc. This problem is only get bigger as our airline gets bigger. Remember, the more you earn the more you spend.

 

[Art at ISP]

US1YFARE,

Give me some time, I am looking in the FFOCUS archives.

 

[freedom]

Southwest gets by fine without the VFF do they not ? We’ve gotten along fine as well after their so called “Exodus†haven’t we ?

I doubt it’s the intention of DP and crew to chase away our best customers , unless it wasn’t cost effective … I’m sorry but I don’t have a spread sheet in front of me so I can’t REALLY discuss the pro’s and con’s of the changes to our elite status , but really what’s all the fuss about ? You get on a plan with your bag , leave on time , arrive on time and get your luggage … I just don’t know how much “service†is required for that kind of transaction …

Sorry folks , but the heyday of aviation is over , the pilots are bus drivers and the FA’s are turning more and more into waitresses (cash cow anyone?).

Look glamour and elitism are fine and dandy , but hommie don’t play that game, this is 2008 , oil is at or near 130 a barrel and there are MORE than enough other airlines to take our spot over if we do foolish things and end up closed down …MAXJET went under , so please don’t tell me that the business community will save us and we must please them at all costs ..

I hope you understand that this isn’t personal art , strictly business on my end , I feel that your still looking at things from the way they used to be and trying to get it back , I feel that there have been radical changes , and our entire business model may need to change as the situation dictates , to those ends I feel that the management we have in place is willing and able to try new procedures and techniques in order to keep our company functioning and competitive .

 

[Art at ISP]

Freedom,

You hear me talking but you are not listening. It's not personal with me either.

I am not looking for things to return to the way they were because it's not possible. I am a realist. I am not living in fantasy land. However, CO, AA and DL appear to be in equal or better shape financially, even with announced cuts and mergers, yet they can offer value to their customer with a desirable product yet US cannot or will not. And stop using WN as a comparison. They used to be your primary competition in the west..in the east your competiton IS UA, AA, CO, DL, etc.......NOT WN.

The gist of what I am saying is that DP and team have made some stupid decisions, which have come back to bite, and they have cut too severely in order to keep the bottom line.

While US is not alone in making some of these changes, the planning and execution has been deplorable. Taking out closets, without realizing you needed to put the emergency equipment somewhere else--thereby taking up overhead space which should be usable to customers. Putting oxygen tanks next to the ovens on some aircraft....

Transitioning to a reservations system because it was cheaper--on the surface. It was not properly tested, it was not properly configured, and now- 15 months it's still not functionally sound--and has cost US MILLIONS in lost revenues and lost customers.

While there are some charges which should be considered, US continually nickels and dimes customers in ways that other majors don't. ONLY UA has joined the no 500 mile minimum...I know YOU don't care about that but most of my members do.

I am a realist. Fact is that US has the highest unit costs of any major. If they had been able to negotiate with labor, they would have gotten more efficiencies. If they had PLANNED the changes better they would not have incurred the costs they have, and might not have one of the worst DOT records.

Yes US is a success. On a recent trip to Europe, I was part of a group of 37 people. Of those 7 did not receive their luggage when they arrived in MXP. Of those 7, ALL were on US Airways.

Your team has things backward. Scotty says they will cut back on services and amenities because we won't pay for them.

Other airlines are offering the services and amenities and as a result people are buying up.

I just paid for F on CO EWR to SEA next week. It was a full coach outbound, and the difference was not great, but it was extra revenue. No one in their right mind would pay for US F, which is really CO economy with bigger seats.....

Nuff said my friend... just don't insult us because we don't agree with you. You will lose in that argument.

 

[as the prop turns]

Once again, comparing to Southwest. When are these people going to understand that USAir is competing in a global market. Forget it Art, they can't think past their "regional" mentality.

 

[freedom]

Ah but WN is GREAT comparison , their not some regional airline anymore , their ALL OVER THE PLACE …. You see THAT is what happens when you have innovation and aren’t afraid to take risks …

Knock south west all you want , but what is the ONLY major airline expected to turn a profit this year ? Who’s number one in customer satisfaction ?which airline do we all constantly wish we worked for ?

I read your complaining about how DP and crew have taken some gambles and had some failures … well we’re still here , and it’s IMPORANT that we’ve taken some gambles … our potential new airline CANNOT afford to have management that isn’t afraid to try new things or make drastic changes when necessary ..

Failure is a PART of success , I think parker and crew have learned MANY valuable lessons with all that’s happened and will be FANTASTIC management for a huge company that will be created with our two airlines …


Bla bla bla , regional mentality … well guess what , our regional airline SAVED us airways butt (in my view , there’s no need to have THAT debate ) and our REGIONAL airline was the first to jump on delta , but because the DELTA management team was short sighted and focused on doing things the way they’ve always been done , they lost money and time , and only later did they realize that they NEEDED to merge …

As far as labor is concerned ART , I think the company is doing what it needs to do .. Even in my own work group I’ve had to deal with many who have really far out their expectations … (COC award anyone ?) … in MY reality we have to make sure that labor doesn’t get too crazy in their demands , we in labor will have to learn to settle for what is fair and not simply all that we can get ..

I feel bad that so many are still locked into their old BK labor contracts , but at the same time I have to wonder if the reason for that is simply that they haven’t been able to settle for reasonable goals … times have changed , if these folks don’t change with them , they’ll still be in their BK contracts for many more years ..

You say no one in their right mind would pay full fare for US AIRWAYS first class , well I see full seats.

 

[dexter]

Southwest rampers top out at 26.00 an hour and are unionized....see, you take care of the employee they take care of the customer and the company still makes money.

Art, is it true US F/C seats are the same size as CO Y/C ?