Machinists Union Merger Update

[Phantom Fixer]

well 700u you still refuse to answer my question about what is you job function so i going to assume that you work in the IAM union hall and you are scared sh*tless that if IBT wins you will have to leave yor cushy union job and have to go back to the tool crib and work for a living like the rest of your hard working union brothers so what are you afraid of just answer the question

help me get my facts right

[post="311505"][/post]​

B737 MECHANIC,

You are slinging a lot of mud about 700 not answering your questions...and accusing him of being an IAM HACK.

On the other hand....I have leveled issues as opposed to open insults with you..and you to refuse to take "the issues" by the horns.

What we have here...is two seperate "Trade Unionists" sparing over who's union is best...and whom does it protect the most in a very singular manner.

The issue is NOT nor should it ever be about one individual in this case.

The issue for a true dyed in the wool "Trade Unionist" is how many jobs are protected...and how many more jobs can be created in an "in-house" fashion?

If niether side can get past their love of self and stick to the real facts and issues?....I hope the both of you stay silent and far far away from anything that might impact the greater masses future here.


Lastly....IBT Union talks about bringing work "In-House" is still just hollow words at this point...and quite possibly at any point. This is nothing I want to bank my future or any number of others future on.

The IAM , warts and all , still has the best scope langauge the will protect far more people for the long haul than what you are pushing.

When it comes to scope and job retention....you haven't a lot to bragg about. The old phrase "One in the hand beats two in the bush" comes to mind.

Think about this real hard while you are kidding yourself and selling out those junior to you. Remember their faces and names when you come back from your absence caused by the belly ache that 700UW gave you....you might have gotten your 16 hours of sick pay....but you would be getting it on the backs of others. This my friend makes you as evil and as self -serving as any corporate hack either of us has ever endured before.

 

[SSBB]

I would like to know 700 job function also with over 7000+ post I cant see that he has had a wrench in his hand for quite awile.

There is a TOPIC YOUR CHOISE IBT/IAM that showes only 26% of the people reading these topics voited for YOUR IAM.

Will you show up for talks at PHL or CLT ??? REF topic (COME AND TALK get your ????? answered ) Which I didn't see any thing from you there thought for sure you would of added your two cents

700UW under 500 PIT JOBS MAY COME BACK Post #4 "see the IAM is good for some thing" Post #40 in reply to Post #39 "Because they don't want to work in PHL. Is that to hard to figure out" IAM mentality offered a job but don't want to work. There hiring out siders to fill these jobs.

700UW WHAT DO YOU DO?????
Besides post all day negative, negative, negative


700UW WHAT IS YOUR FUCTION :unsure:

 

[ODIN]

By Don Treichler, Teamsters Airline Division Director

Over the past few days, a number of you have asked questions concerning the Teamsters’ position on a number of issues. Many of your questions were prompted by memos and flyers published by the Machinists (IAM) that are misleading, in error, and intended to falsely inform you. The IAM does not want you to know that Teamster contracts, representation, and bargaining are better. Below are questions and answers that should put to rest the incorrect information you have been given.

Question: Who will be recognized as your representative? The IAM claims (9-26-05 memo and flyer) that it will be recognized automatically as the representative of the US Airways and America West Airlines mechanics once there is a merger. Is that true?

Answer: The answer is NO; there will be no automatic recognition of the Machinists. The IAM allegedly filed with the National Mediation Board (NMB) for a single carrier ruling (equivalent to a merger) on September 30. The carrier and both unions have an opportunity to respond to this filing. Should the Board rule THAT a single carrier does not yet exist, then members will continue to be represented by their current unions. Should the Board rule that a single carrier does exist, then the IBT has two additional weeks in which to provide a sufficient showing of interest to force an election between the two unions.

Question: What is a showing of interest and what is required to force an election between the two unions?

Answer: In this case, the Teamsters must provide a showing of interest that equals or exceeds 35% of the total eligibility list of the two mechanic groups. To achieve 35%, the IBT needs several hundred cards signed by IAM members to add to its America West members. Once this threshold is met, there will be an election and you will have a choice between the unions.

Question: How is representation decided in such an election?

Answer: With 50% plus 1 or more of the total members voting, the union with a majority of the votes cast is certified as your representative.

Question: Is it true, as the IAM claims, that there exists a danger that less than 50% of the total members may vote thereby resulting in loss of representation?

Answer: This is technically possible, but it really is only an IAM scare tactic. The IAM said the same thing at Piedmont and they were as wrong there as they are here. The IBT anticipates an election and we expect a high turnout of voters, well in excess of 50% of the total post merger mechanic class and craft.

Question: Is the IAM correct that, since US Airways is the surviving carrier, the US Airways IAM mechanic’s agreement will prevail?

Answer: NO. The IAM made the same claim at Piedmont and they were wrong. Piedmont management then tried to make the same claim and they were forced to accept the IBT’s position on the courthouse steps. As your certified representative, the IBT will negotiate an amalgamated agreement from the two existing agreements and we fully intend to improve these. By contrast, the IAM is stuck with your bankruptcy driven agreement that they have yet to publish.

Question: Is it correct, as alleged by the IAM, that US Airways mechanics risk a loss of seniority under IBT policies? Is the rumor true that the IBT will insist on dovetailing the seniority list?

Answer: NO. As the IBT stated previously, we expect seniority integration to be based on date of hire with no further furloughs because of the merger.

Question: Is it correct, as the IAM alleges, that the IBT will not bargain to retain heavy maintenance?

Answer: NO. The IBT will bargain to retain all heavy maintenance and bring in additional business. The IBT did this at Continental and other carriers. IBT job security language (scope) is the strongest in the industry, while the IAM’s has been weak.

Question: The IAM states that it is bargaining a transition agreement with the Company (US Airways). Is that true and what does that mean?

Answer: If the IBT is certified, the company is required by law to bargain with us. That would make irrelevant anything that the IAM is doing now.

Question: How is the IBT better than the IAM insofar as wages and job security are concerned?

Answer: The IAM already told you that their bankruptcy-negotiated wages and scope are what you are going to get if they represent you. The IBT wages at AWA are already higher than your current wages and the Teamsters are bargaining to get the AWA wages higher. US Airways is out of bankruptcy and can no longer justify a claim for bottom feeder wages. We intend to negotiate the wages higher. The Teamsters have the highest AMT wages in the industry and the world. The Teamsters have the best scope (job security) language in industry. The Teamsters have the power, strength, and experience you need to aggressively bargain for you and to properly represent you.



In conclusion, we ask each of you to complete and return a Teamster representation card in order to ensure that there will be a democratic election, which allows you to choose the IBT as your bargaining representative

 

[Phantom Fixer]

People....This is an internet board....and what a person does or whom he/she works for is NOT an area that needs to be addressed.

This board has rules about 'Outing" people....and nobody here should be stupid enough to OUT themselves by disclosing anything about their work or whom they work for.

If anyone has an issue or an axe to grind with another indivdual?....be smart enough to send them a private message or e-mail.

700's function and indentity is privledged information...and has no bearing on the topic what so ever.

 

[tug_slug]

People....This is an internet board....and what a person does or whom he/she works for is NOT an area that needs to be addressed.

This board has rules about 'Outing" people....and nobody here should be stupid enough to OUT themselves by disclosing anything about their work or whom they work for.

If anyone has an issue or an axe to grind with another indivdual?....be smart enough to send them a private message or e-mail.

700's function and indentity is privledged information...and has no bearing on the topic what so ever.

[post="311541"][/post]​

Excellent post Phantom

 

[SSBB]

Well all I see is a negitive person that doen't see anyway but the IAM way. Just makes you think, I for one am looking for the ANSWERS of Which union is going to be best for the whole. I would go for the VOTE if there are that meny members conserned about there jobs there should well over the 50%+1 so lets put it to the members and let the union that wins repercent us all no cring no winning just move on for the best of all

 

[Phantom Fixer]

Well all I see is a negitive person that doen't see anyway but the IAM way. Just makes you think, I for one am looking for the ANSWERS of Which union is going to be best for the whole. I would go for the VOTE if there are that meny members conserned about there jobs there should well over the 50%+1 so lets put it to the members and let the union that wins repercent us all no cring no winning just move on for the best of all

[post="311546"][/post]​

OK....What you see is just what YOU see.

700UW may be a lot of things...and Yes , he's an IAM guy through and through. He was Pro-IAM when US was a stand alone carrier...and he's Pro-IAM in the present. He is what he is. Does attacking him give you any greater insights to the awnsers you seek? My bet is NO. Does asking him to OUT himself get you any closer to the awnsers you seek. again...my bet is NO.

The only things certain in this post merger world is this.

One...the combined company is going to try to do it with as few people as possible.

Two...the combined company is going to try to out-source as many jobs as they think they can get away with.

Three...Two Unions are not going to survive on this property...and you need to hedge your bets with the one that is going to insure the most survivors in this enviroment.

Four... Like or not...We are now an un-officially combined workforce..and We had better find a way to put asside our differences and work from a common ground...and logic dictates that the common ground means a pay check coming every week for the absolute maximum of people that are currently employed by this combined company.

I for one am not a big fan of the IAM...and Yes I have had my issues with their willingnes to keep people informed...and I've also griped about their lack of taking the fight to the enemy at times. However...I'm smart enough to know , that everything the IAM lost was not in battle with the former U Management in a direct confrontation...The Companies gains against labor have all come from a "Rubber Stamp BK Judge" whom is DUTY-BOUND" to protect the investors in said corporation.

Today...NW has filled a motion with it's BK Judge to abrogate ALL Union Contracts if 1.4 Billion dollars in concessions aren't obtained...and remember this is the same company that has already forced AMFA Members into a STRIKE and have outsourced thousands of AMT jobs completely out of this country. Do you think they are going to fare any better...would they fare better if the IBT was doing the bargaining? Most likely not...as a BK Judge is again , DUTY BOUND to protect the investors in NW.

One day...and I hope its soon...Middle America is going to wise up and take the fight to Corporate America and stop fighting amoung themselves for scraps.

Vote with Knowledge...not Emotion. Vote for what is going to keep the most employed...as opposed to catering to the percentage that know they are going to survive based only on senority , regardless of whom is doing the collective bargaining for all of us.

 

[diogenes]

The IBT needs to check their history books regarding decertification.

IBT represented fleet service in 4 US Air stations (BOS, BUF, PIT, PHL) prior to the PSA and Piedmont mergers in the late 1980's.

After all of the mergers, an election was held. The vote went against representation, the IBT was decertified, and fleet service ceased to be represented.

Followed shortly by furloughs and pension freezes for agents, but NOT the mechs, f/a's and pilots who retained representation.

I'm a big fan of unions in theory, but I've been a critic of HOW (the IAM in particular) they operate.

They certainly need to be more accessible to the membership.

The Teamsters have issues here, as well.

http://www.thenation.com/docprem.mhtml?i=20020902&s=moberg

Some are saying the IBT is NEGOTIATING heavy maintenance. I'd want that in hand BEFORE I voted - I've been 'promised' before. If the IBT can get it in writing, they improve their case before the membership.

One other thing. Many agents in those four IBT fleet stations at U thought if the IBT won, all of the newly represented folks from PI and PSA, regardless of seniority, would be stapled to the bottom, i.e. a 1988 PHL agent would be senior to a 1963 CLT agent. This explains a lot of the NO vote.

Now whether than was true or IAM propoganda, I don't know. I never could get an IBT or IAM rep to give me a straight answer.

My advice. Spend the time and money to take IBT and IAM contracts to an independent labor lawyer, and get the facts. Both unions will BS you, and you can't afford that.

Then, form some solidarity. You've got some pros in managment that know how to exploit division.

Don't tell me Doug won't do it. He has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders, not to you.

 

[B737 MECHANIC]

"I have leveled issues as opposed to open insults" as you say if calling anyone a IAM HACK is an insult i am so sorry for hurting any grown adults feelings, ijust wondering what drives him to think the IAM is the only why to go and the rest of us are crap, he must have a big stake in the IAM, and you need to stick up for him, let him do it for himself i would have a lot more respect if he call me a self serving person than hear it from some message boy, anyway i am done causing so much negative issues i am putting an end to this as with 700u most people dont want to even think about giving IBT a chance, i doesnt matter which union wins i will be laid off anyways, all for what. a bunch of high senority people can keep their jobs a little longer in a company that was finished if doug and awa and the investers he got together to save usair.

i hope i did hurt anyones feelings bye

 

[AP Tech]

I much as I dislike the IAM over some of their dealings, I look over the proposals of both unions and feel the only choice I have is to stay with the IAM. The main reason is the outsource issue, I realize the IBT is stating they want to retain overhaul and eliminate outsourcing, but all that is nothing more than a wish list. The IAM has a contract, although not a good one which is valid until 2009!! As stated before the only way it can be amended is by BK, or agreement, and I doubt that will happen.

 

[Phantom Fixer]

"I have leveled issues as opposed to open insults" as you say if calling anyone a IAM HACK is an insult i am so sorry for hurting any grown adults feelings, ijust wondering what drives him to think the IAM is the only why to go and the rest of us are crap, he must have a big stake in the IAM, and you need to stick up for him, let him do it for himself i would have a lot more respect if he call me a self serving person than hear it from some message boy, anyway i am done causing so much negative issues i am putting an end to this as with 700u most people dont want to even think about giving IBT a chance, i doesnt matter which union wins i will be laid off anyways, all for what. a bunch of high senority people can keep their jobs a little longer in a company that was finished if doug and awa and the investers he got together to save usair.

i hope i did hurt anyones feelings bye

[post="311572"][/post]​

B737 MECHANIC,

I'm not going to apologize for defending a co-worker...no matter how much I too tend to disagree with him at times. Your approach and attempts at tanking or high-jacking this thread tweeked me but good

Blast me all you want ...but you Sir have stirred the pot to a boil without even using an outside heat source. I'm refering to your attempts to getting a Board Member and fellow worker to OUT himself...as if his job has a damn thing to do with anything. Is anyone asking you to OUT yourself?

AS for your comments about being furloughed....How do you know this to be true , unless a Union Contract is accepted that allows for further outsourcing of what is and should remain your and my collective work.

Lets take this another POSITIVE step further.

HP's current fleet required todays numbers of HP Mechanics to keep the ball rolling...am I correct so far?

US has had to maintain a certain headcount to make it work too...and lots of that is driven by the need to make the current levels "In-House" work per the binding agreement between US and the IAM.

This agreement keeps a lot of things solvent for a lot of people...it also provides stability for a large number of individuals..whom would other wise be exercising bumping rights to Line Stations..thus creating a "shock-wave" of the very furloughs you are obviously expecting.

I'm willing to believe and its just a guess , that your fears are driven by senority intergration...Valid? Maybe , Maybe not?

Just to give you an insight as to whats going on in the East. CLT Base Maintenance which is a 5 Bay Facility...has 2 B-737 Q-Checks taking place...and 2 C-Check Tracks...Bay 4 of the facility is being used for "Drop-In' work that is usually beyond the scope of Overnight Maintenance that the purpose built Line Hangar handles. That's a lot of Jobs that are in the present form...No threat to your position anywhere within the current HP Maintenance chain. PIT is much the same..only that involves the Airbus Narrow Body S-Checks.

FYI...CLT has been re-calling Furloughees over the last few weeks due to a lot of retirements and some simply hauling butt out of this industry. The Junior most returnees have a DOH of June/July of 1989 that I've spoken to.

Something else to ease your anxiety...of all the Ex-PSA Mechanics I've spoken to..whom started in SAN or LAX so many many years ago...not one that I've encountered has any desire to up-root you in PHX for a return to the West.

Most at US fear being transfered to PHX..as the cost of living from a housing standpoint alone is far far out of whack when you compare it to that of either the PIT or CLT markets. Hell Man...we are already working for less as it is...and nothing else in life is getting cheaper...who the hell needs to wantingly move to PHX and make the burden even greater?

The biggest concerns period are the scope clause...that insures more favorable numbers being retained on both sides of this story. The real job losses will stim from areas where true duplication of effort are...and that's at the HQ's level , Support levels and that of the Operations Dept. These folks from the U side are going to get the bath of a lifetime when RIDC Park in PIT is closed...and they can't afford to move to PHX , if in fact a job offer is extended to them? CLT will have a few areas affected in an alike manner...but it will be limited as opposed to what will take place in PIT and the curent U HQ in CCY.

By and large...You need to temper your tantrum until all the facts meet the light of day...but one fact is for certain..the loss of any additional Heavy Maintenance in the EAST by you getting your way..is going to BY-GOD have an impact on who's still working or not in the WEST at some point.

 

[umech]

hi, well said however in my oppinion we are better off with the IBT because they have an open contract and can negociate from wages to work scope etc, all the iam has is scope of heavy maint and some utility jobs in pit and clt, NOW here is where we turn the thinking cap arround, WHAT if usairways decides to shut down all heavy in pit and clt and move it to phx ( we know its a lot cheaper to operate hangar space in phx thant in pit or clt, iam representation or not will not be able to stop the transfer of jobs from the east to the west and the pit clt mechanics i and utility will be abolished because phx is not in the iam contract language...

THERE YOU GO....SEE...... VOTE IBT...

READ THE HISTORY OF AWA and you will find out the IBT came in house after the company starter sending out all the heavy maint (pre 1995); the IBT CAME TO AWA IN 1995
INVESTIGATE BOTH UNIONS see wich is the best to represent hi quality for a few where as mediocracy representation for the many ( there is not job security) and we all know it.

i am a usairways mech of 22 years and its time for a change.

umech.-

 

[Phantom Fixer]

hi, well said however in my oppinion we are better off with the IBT because they have an open contract and can negociate from wages to work scope etc, all the iam has is scope of heavy maint and some utility jobs in pit and clt, NOW here is where we turn the thinking cap arround, WHAT if usairways decides to shut down all heavy in pit and clt and move it to phx ( we know its a lot cheaper to operate hangar space in phx thant in pit or clt, iam representation or not will not be able to stop the transfer of jobs from the east to the west and the pit clt mechanics i and utility will be abolished because phx is not in the iam contract language...

THERE YOU GO....SEE...... VOTE IBT...

READ THE HISTORY OF AWA and you will find out the IBT came in house after the company starter sending out all the heavy maint (pre 1995); the IBT CAME TO AWA IN 1995
INVESTIGATE BOTH UNIONS see wich is the best to represent hi quality for a few where as mediocracy representation for the many ( there is not job security) and we all know it.

i am a usairways mech of 22 years and its time for a change.

umech.-

[post="311587"][/post]​

umech,

You make a valid point about thier being no insurances about where the work is performed under the IAM agreement , however do have to take issue n the cost of where its being done.

PIT's cost were high for sub-standard facilities...and that alone was a driving force behind the leases there being abrogated in BK numero uno.

CLT on the other hand has a very low cost...and the CLT Airport Authority will still work with U regardless of the issues of back taxes. The CLT facility was NOT abrogated during either trip through BK...so paying for an empty un-productive shell is simply not going to happen. That opprotunity for them to stick it to us has sailed.

Maybe a change is needed in some respects...but before I vote on any changes...the Scope on Heavy Maintenance will have to be in place beforehand.

Change for the sake of change is nothing more than gambling with peoples lives in this environment.

 

[B737 MECHANIC]

thanks for the info

 

[700UW]

I work under the IAM Mechanic and Related contract, I am not a full time IAM employee.

And to Phantom Fixer, thanks.