Airbus Hearing In Phl

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Industry Observer, It is nice to see one of the IAM members that fully understand the need to outsource the airbus work. You are intelligent and understand the issues. The company has stated that this outsourcing will not cause any job losses. The IAM has never performed this work so they aren't losing anything.

I am not affiliated with your union but I am also hearing that several of your co-workers are supporting the outsourcing issue. A few people on the CLT Line are rapidly voicing their frustration with the IAM. It is not about saving jobs but saving the company. I expect Fleet Service to be the next dept. that is outsourced. My recommendation is for the company and IAM to agree on pay rates (BID) to work on the airbus work, as Pineybob has stated numerous times. Times are changing and you will see those airbuses leaving for Mobile once the judge rules in the company’s favor in the next hearing.

 

[Mike W]

Smoke,
I'd like to see how they plan to outsource Fleet Service since they have contracts in place that prohibit it. Then again this management hasn't seen a contract that they wouldn't like to try and violate. At least the lawyers are showing a profit.

 

[ClueByFour]

Industry Observer, It is nice to see one of the IAM members that fully understand the need to outsource the airbus work. You are intelligent and understand the issues. The company has stated that this outsourcing will not cause any job losses. The IAM has never performed this work so they aren't losing anything.

I am not affiliated with your union but I am also hearing that several of your co-workers are supporting the outsourcing issue. A few people on the CLT Line are rapidly voicing their frustration with the IAM. It is not about saving jobs but saving the company. I expect Fleet Service to be the next dept. that is outsourced. My recommendation is for the company and IAM to agree on pay rates (BID) to work on the airbus work, as Pineybob has stated numerous times. Times are changing and you will see those airbuses leaving for Mobile once the judge rules in the company’s favor in the next hearing.

I will bet you two trolls, one disclaimer that I'm not a US Airways employee, and one of those spiffy new ticket jackets that two things will happen:

1. US is going to lose large before the 3rd circuit (they failed to stay a preliminary injunction, not lift a TRO--perhaps a lawyer or even a business school graduate can let you know about the difference). It's not every day that a federal district judge spanks somebody like Cindrich did to US in his initial opinion and order.

2. The IAM will be doing to airbus work.

I will also make three observations:

1. Statements like yours are typically made by trolls on internet BBs, or by vertically challenged executives who try to make it up with ego.

2. Anybody who sends aircraft to a third party vendor and has them come back with major mechanical difficulties is truly a moron. Anyone who does this less than one year after losing an express affiliates' flight at a major hub after an outsource shop screwed up the trim cables is just stupid. You know, history tends to repeat itself, learn from one's mistakes, and all that stuff.

3. The only place the airbuses will be going is to the desert when they time out, which will increase CASM and ultimately hasten the demise of US. I'll bet that will look great on the old resume. I mean, Frank Borman was a busy guy after Eastern, right? Who was running Pan Am when they went under?

 

[repeet]

28yearsnojob
Posted on Jan 13 2004, 09:22 PM

IAM promised small cities mda if mainline pulled out. that did not happen

Ok, so now it's the I.A.M.s fault that US Airways can't figure out how to launch Mid Atlantic. No, wait, the fact that Mid Atlantic doesn't exist yet, doesn't really enter into your blame quotient. does it.

You AMFA guys. I used to be one, but now? How can you want, to agree to, give away our jobs, and let the remander of us work for less. Tell me, is that the real mission of AMFA. To help corporate Ameriica turn the American working class into the third world.

No thanks. I think better of myself and the talented professionals that I work with everyday. We have a mission too. A living wage for honest work.

So, will the men with intestinal fortitude please stand up. Here's our battle cry:

 

[ClueByFour]

Also I am growing very tired of the name calling. If you render an opinion that is not blessed by the self appointed on here you are a troll or worse. That's frankly offensive considering that the thread regarding the ethics book published by US is widely critisized as censorship by the very same people who shout down ANY dissent elsewhere. You can look up hypocracy in the dictionary or you can see a textbook example here.

You notice how folks like "smoke and mirrors" and "Do It For Dave" typically drop one-liners here and there that are controversial at best and then are unheard of again for a week? That is the behavior of a troll.

Failing that, some of these guys are actually in US management, in which case (speaking only for myself) I feel that I can address the folks who have (and continue to) run my favorite airline into the ground in the manner they so truly deserve until such time as the moderators tell me to back it off a notch, or the aforementioned morons in CCY do something (anything, really) to earn my respect as a customer, investor, and businessman.

Beyond all that, you will never actually see these aforementioned "troll like" posters ever actually engage in debate. They drop the one liners and scram. Ergo, my conclusions. If they want to debate the Airbus outsourcing issue, for instance, I'll be more than willing; it is so much fun to club the proverbial baby seals with the ClueByFour.

 

[E-TRONS]

REPEET,

Don't fall for that we support farmout crap for one moment. That is classic pot-stirring at best. The truth be known is that anyone who believes in the AMFA's philosophy wouldn't think of farming our work out.

Furthermore, Any farmout occurring at an AMFA represented carrier such as NWA was INHERITED from a previously negotiated IAM agreement. Once it's gone it's a long shot in getting it back in house.

After witnessing the distressing results with the "Alabama Slammer" (A/C 700) after going thru Mobile Aerospace and their quality oriented maintenance program, who in their right mind would support such a notion???

Maybe Dave would care to answer that???

 

[1990Supra]

You notice how folks like "smoke and mirrors" and "Do It For Dave" typically drop one-liners here and there that are controversial at best and then are unheard of again for a week? That is the behavior of a troll.

Failing that, some of these guys are actually in US management, in which case (speaking only for myself) I feel that I can address the folks who have (and continue to) run my favorite airline into the ground in the manner they so truly deserve until such time as the moderators tell me to back it off a notch, or the aforementioned morons in CCY do something (anything, really) to earn my respect as a customer, investor, and businessman.

Beyond all that, you will never actually see these aforementioned "troll like" posters ever actually engage in debate. They drop the one liners and scram. Ergo, my conclusions. If they want to debate the Airbus outsourcing issue, for instance, I'll be more than willing; it is so much fun to club the proverbial baby seals with the ClueByFour. [/quote]
Cluex4,

I believe you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Troll it most certainly is.

 

[repeet]

E-TRONS

I wouldn't have thought that AMFA would back concessions, but that's how they are being represented. Why didn't someone from PIT step in and refute that position. Why is it a CLT AMFA supporter has to step in to set the record straight. I think that the problem is actually the broken spirits of our brothers in PIT.

A Union is only what the membership makes it. IAM, AMFA, or whoever, they will do what the membership wants. Unfortunately I fear that our membership is half defeated. That is where we need to get proactive now. Unless some judge forces a vote upon us, a broken membership is the only thing we need to worry about.

The job of leadership is to create a vision, and the IAM has given us a goal to be unified on:

 

[delldude]

E-TRONS

I wouldn't have thought that AMFA would back concessions, but that's how they are being represented. Why didn't someone from PIT step in and refute that position. Why is it a CLT AMFA supporter has to step in to set the record straight. I think that the problem is actually the broken spirits of our brothers in PIT.

A Union is only what the membership makes it. IAM, AMFA, or whoever, they will do what the membership wants. Unfortunately I fear that our membership is half defeated. That is where we need to get proactive now. Unless some judge forces a vote upon us, a broken membership is the only thing we need to worry about.

The job of leadership is to create a vision, and the IAM has given us a goal to be unified on:

LET ME TELL YOU HERE AND NOW.... so you find it difficult to accept that AMFA has actually given away in house work/and or concessions?NWA....ring a bell???and what about this crap about "our union brothers in pit are broken"?my friend and union brother,you were in PIT for a recent stay...for some unknown reason,i must say you have been listening to the wrong people.....I FOR ONE AM TELLING YOU WE IN PIT ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE RESOLVED TO THE SUPPORT AND ADMINISTRATION OF OUR CONTRACT! TAKE IT TO THE BANK!
DID AMFA FILE PETITION IN FEDERAL COURT TO SUPPORT OUR CONTRACT AND DEFEND OUR CONTRACT AGAINST OUTSOURCING?WELL MY FRIEND??
and i must ask,how would an AMFA supporter from CLT step in to set the IAM record straight regarding AMFA and their inability to prevent outsourcing and/or concessions?for some reason your logic escapes me here.
AND FURTHERMORE LET IT BE KNOWNIT IAM HAS A TOTAL RESOLVE TO DEFEND AND PROTECT THE CONTRACT FOR ANY AND ALL INVOLVED.
OUR SPIRITS ARE NOT AND HAVE NOT BEEN BROKEN!
YOU ARE THE MEMBERSHIP AND I SUGGEST YOU LIVE UP TO WHAT A MEMBER SHOULD BE!

 

[delldude]

:down: IAM is only for the numbers in the big cities after the contracts are opened
look out if you are from a small city

Your comments are accurate. We need a real union on property. Many of my fellow union brothers at the Pit hanger have given up on the IAM. I hate to admit this, but I support the company in outsourcing the airbus work if it means saving this company. The IAM must listen to Dave's plan and give it a chance. The unions must work with this management team.

you must know that your PROMANAGEMENT post tends to amuse the DUDE...i seem to recognize this same diatribe as recently as last july/august...same flavor,same content...DOITFORDAVE......spare me please.....can anyone else here see this for what it is?
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Smoke and Mirrors Posted: Jan 14 2004, 12:06 AM


Member


Group: Member
Posts: 30
Member No.: 2,239
Joined: 29-April 03



Industry Observer, It is nice to see one of the IAM members that fully understand the need to outsource the airbus work. You are intelligent and understand the issues. The company has stated that this outsourcing will not cause any job losses. The IAM has never performed this work so they aren't losing anything.

I am not affiliated with your union but I am also hearing that several of your co-workers are supporting the outsourcing issue. A few people on the CLT Line are rapidly voicing their frustration with the IAM. It is not about saving jobs but saving the company. I expect Fleet Service to be the next dept. that is outsourced. My recommendation is for the company and IAM to agree on pay rates (BID) to work on the airbus work, as Pineybob has stated numerous times. Times are changing and you will see those airbuses leaving for Mobile once the judge rules in the company’s favor in the next hearing.

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so both of ye are in concert......outsourcing will not cause any job loses until we get rid of the 737's...right dave?? CLT line will rapidly voice their opinion,DAVE and it isn't with IAM its with D.A.V.E.....so my friend....screw your diatribe and have a great US AIRWAYS DAY.....may the court be with US...IAM...LOL

 

[E-TRONS]

Anyone claiming to support the company's farmout stance sure as hell won't do it in public.....only behind the safety of their keyboard where it's easier to stir the pot with such utter nonsense!!

I assure you the majority of maintenance employees WILL NOT EVER support any farmout attempts in CLT, PIT or anywhere. And if you find one individual who does I will bet that they were one of the suckers that fell for all of Dave Lorenzo's deceit!!!

YES VOTERS: What do you say now????????? Yeah I know.....everyone voted no :angry: .

DELLDUDE: Take a chill pill. I am not trying to undermine the IAM but I will not hide the truth of the matter either. I hope you are looking into what you hear personally rather than relying on whatever Schifano or Lieberger say as gospel.

You hurt an animal once and they will NEVER forget. That is exactly what happened when the IAM FORCED the 2nd vote upon us....insulting us by claiming we were confused??? They said they will support whatever we decide. But I guess a $1.25 Million BRIBE got in their way. If it wasn't a bribe why would the company ONLY pay the IAM if the concessionary deal was ratified??? It was for expenses right??? Then it should have been paid regardless of the outcome.

I remember how pissed Lieberger was upon learning the pact was rejected.....and the disparaging comments towards the membership that followed. You think word doesn't get around??? Guess again. The IAM ALONE killed our trust. Period!!

Just for the record Dude, NWA Mechanics are still receiving full pay and benefits because AMFA told management to see them when their contract was up for renewal. So naturally the IAM was furious that AMFA rejected the notion of concessions and went on to blame AMFA for threatening the airlines viability. In fact it was only a short time later that NWA's financial strength was made public after AMFA did some digging into the financial dealings of NWA. A report that showed NWA as being rather profitable???? This announcement was follwed by a petition by the IAM for a 10% raise for their members who gave in to concessions when AMFA would not even entertain the thought. How about that??? Ask Frank and Bill to explain why the IAM RUSHED to discuss concessions when AMFA did not <_< .

You are seeing it again on our property. "The concession stand is closed." So why the hell is the IAM even talking to the company at this time??? They should tell them to pound salt !!! I promise you we will LOSE BIG-TIME once again. I implore you to do some research of your own because I think your loyalty to the IAM is keeping you from seeing the whole truth. Remember....knowledge is power!!

Here is a riddle: What work groups provide the IAM with the largest percentage of dues??? 1) The Mechanics 2) Utility workers 3) Rampers.

Hint: The Mechanics are now the smallest work group of the three :huh:

Pray Dude........Pray hard!!!

E-TRONS out.

 

[700UW]

What about the 4,500 mechanics at NWA that are not recieving any pay of benefits from NWA since they have been laid off while NWA airplanes get overhauled in GSO at Timco, in Singapore and in Dothan, AL?

Don't see a US Airways airplane at any of those facilities and when US tried it the IAM stopped it.

And when the IAM was at NWA they did not farm out whole airplanes which is common practice at NWA as we read this.

 

[TDR1502C]

700UW Posted on Jan 14 2004, 09:38 AM
What about the 4,500 mechanics at NWA that are not recieving any pay of benefits from NWA since they have been laid off while NWA airplanes get overhauled in GSO at Timco, in Singapore and in Dothan, AL?

Don't see a US Airways airplane at any of those facilities and when US tried it the IAM stopped it.

And when the IAM was at NWA they did not farm out whole airplanes which is common practice at NWA as we read this.

The IAM at NWA allowed whole aircraft farmouts, which is how farmouts at NWA started. As a redtail, ask me how I know. You may also want to check on your laid off mechanics numbers. I'd hate to have to tell some of my coworkers they are actually laid off according to IAM accounting and should stop coming in.

And have a nice day.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

I know for fact that NW has had a long standing history of outsourcing. A former co-worker of mine , prior to accepting employment with an un-named east coast based airline , was in fact a "technical support specialist" in Singapore.

The majority of the photos this person showed me over the course of his brief and un-inspiring time with the un-named east coast airline , were in fact NW Acft in most all instances.

Frankly....U is the last standing ground for real American workers in this industry. If the IAM loses?...this will not be an industry to steer your child or any returning Vets too , as it has been in the past 50 years

If U wins over the IAM?....the same applies.it will just compound tbe anti-labor position in play in this industry. By and large..if the IAM loses , or U folds , this industry will not be worth anything to anyone except maybe the pilots whom remain employed.

 

[E-TRONS]

700, you have a short memory.

How many mechanics went out the door at U-S Airways since 9/11? A few thousand?? How about at all the other carriers? They ALL took advantage of Force Majure and furloughed thousands!! IAM, IBT, TWU and AMFA represented carriers. It made NO difference. It's a moot point.

What about the concessions we took after the forced revote? I think you are still confused. Maybe more concessions will free up your view??

What about all the 100% plus 20% other maintenance farmout agreed to by the IAM at UAL before AMFA came in?? Let's not forget the closing of the IMC and OAK bases......again agreed to by the IAM??

Just before the UAL AMFA vote the IAM was working to re-open the IMC and had investors lined up. AMFA won. The IMC is still closed and not a peep has been heard from the IAM about it since last summer.......Need I continue??

I don't care too much about what happens else where because we have our own fish to fry. However, I do take particular notice of the actions of the IAM at other carriers because if they did it there they can do it here to us. Get it yet??

Quit making excuses for the IAM's transgressions against our profession. Dues income is ultimately the driving force behing closed doors. Without it the IAM will suffer. That is why I don't trust that they represent our best interests. The secrecy must end!!

Don't twist this around. I stand in solidarity in the battle against this hun known as Dave Lorenzo. But it is my constitutional right not to agree with everything that goes down. It's called freedom of speech and it's protected by law.

Believe what you will. I will gladly debate you all that you want. Try the truth backed up by facts. Everything else is just talk. Educate yourself as to what is going on at other airlines and who is representing them. You have a computer...use it!!

E-TRONS out.