M & R Vote For A UNION.

[blue collar]

It sucks losing heavy jobs to outsourcing, but how much should you give up in order to keep all that heavy in-house? Are you guys happy about being 2nd from lowest paid in the industry and still having 50% heavy outsourced?? In my eyes, it should be about quality of the jobs, not the quantity.

 

[TRAVIS]

It sucks losing heavy jobs to outsourcing, but how much should you give up in order to keep all that heavy in-house? Are you guys happy about being 2nd from lowest paid in the industry and still having 50% heavy outsourced?? In my eyes, it should be about quality of the jobs, not the quantity.

700 will not answer that one, It makes his IAM look bad also Lockheed Martin and Caterpillar don't count either as IAM poor representation because he said so....quote 700 ( I just tell it like it is.) :blink:

 

[737823]

It sucks losing heavy jobs to outsourcing, but how much should you give up in order to keep all that heavy in-house? Are you guys happy about being 2nd from lowest paid in the industry and still having 50% heavy outsourced?? In my eyes, it should be about quality of the jobs, not the quantity.

Actually it's more than 50% outsourced considering the CBA language only requires 50% of maintenance spent in house (audited every month), the 50% spent at low cost MROs goes a lot further than even the bargain basement IAM contract.

But to a business unionist, it is all about keeping more dues paying members on the payroll and not the quality of the jobs they protect. 700UW is just like Overspeed for the IAM.

700 will not answer that one, It makes his IAM look bad also Lockheed Martin and Caterpillar don't count either as IAM poor representation because he said so....quote 700 ( I just tell it like it is.) :blink:

He is conditioned to defend the IAM no matter how ridiculous his reasons are. He defends the IAM scabbing AMFA at NWA by calling it "ancillary duties"; boasts that the IAM spent $5 million representing the TWA FAs (as if that is a tremendous sum, especially for the IAM) to get the seniority the IAM sold away; insists the company adds concessionary language to contracts when in fact it takes two parties to negotiate.

Josh

 

[blue collar]

Actually it's more than 50% outsourced considering the CBA language only requires 50% of maintenance spent in house (audited every month), the 50% spent at low cost MROs goes a lot further than even the bargain basement IAM contract.

Not splitting hairs here, but it is actually 50% billable hours, not mx spend. And my question remains even if it is only 43% or 40%... Is it really worth making $10k-$20k (or more) less per year to still give that much heavy away?

 

[737823]

Not splitting hairs here, but it is actually 50% billable hours, not mx spend. And my question remains even if it is only 43% or 40%... Is it really worth making $10k-$20k (or more) less per year to still give that much heavy away?

You are right, but 700 keeps saying it is 50% of spend:

50% of heavy maintenance dollars must be done inhouse, it is audited monthly. It took two chapter 11 filings for the scope to permit outsourcing, you forget we won a major arbitration case against the company in regard to the airbus outsourcing.

And the mechanic and related were the only group to get pension back after it was terminated, fleet had the IAMNPF, M&R didnt.

US has more holidays, sick and vacation than their AA counterparts and AA is going to get decimated on Friday, and that truly suck.

And US doesnt have OSMs performing A&P work., AA does.

Allowed?

US violated the IAM CBA, the IAM took them to court, won an injunction against the company as it was declared a major dispute.

The ruling was overturned on appeal and it went to arbitration where the IAM prevailed once again.

Our CBA was abrogated in 2005 in the second chapter 11 case and the final offer CBA permitted outsourcing, in bankruptcy. Now 50% of all mtc dollars must be done in-house.

You are right, the IAM lost 46% of the MTC workforce through the second bankruptcy in 2005 the agreement is highly concessionary. But still they do outsource more than 50% if you consider this language:

32 (K) The Company may assign GSE Mechanics in LAX and
33 CMH to the Interior Maintenance bid area.

Livery work may be outsourced and the billable hours do
39 not count as base maintenance work, but other work performed by
40 the vendor during the livery visit may be outsourced and the
41 billable hours for such other work will count towards base
42 maintenance work.

http://www.iamdl142....ril 3, 2008.pdf

Josh

 

[blue collar]

You are right, but 700 keeps saying it is 50% of spend:




You are right, the IAM lost 46% of the MTC workforce through the second bankruptcy in 2005 the agreement is highly concessionary. But still they do outsource more than 50% if you consider this language:

I'm sure you're ecstatic about the concessionary agreement, judging by the amount of disdain you hold towards an organized workforce.

 

[700UW]

US never painted planes in-house, we never had the capability, it was work never done by US mechanics, due to the tough EPA regulations in regards to stripping and the painting of planes.

And it took two bankruptcies to bring the concessions on, it is the first section 6 negotiations since bankruptcy and we will see what happens.

 

[737823]

US never painted planes in-house, we never had the capability, it was work never done by US mechanics, due to the tough EPA regulations in regards to stripping and the painting of planes.

And it took two bankruptcies to bring the concessions on, it is the first section 6 negotiations since bankruptcy and we will see what happens.

As Bob has said before, you helped usher in the concessions. Is this agreement something you are proud of? You go around touting the IAM M&R agreement as if it were industry leading, sure certain elements are a cut above AA TWU but it is nothing to be proud of.

Josh

 

[700UW]

No I nor the IAM helped usher it in, what dont you understand about Section 1113 and that our CBA was ABROGATED?

Is the concept and facts of the law too hard for you to understand?

 

[737823]

No I nor the IAM helped usher it in, what dont you understand about Section 1113 and that our CBA was ABROGATED?

Is the concept and facts of the law too hard for you to understand?

I understand the law and yes the concessions were imposed but doesn't change the fact that you have among the worst CBA in the industry.

Just like Hawaiian added part-time reserve not the IAM...it takes two parties to negotiate.

Josh

 

[700UW]

The HA part-time has nothing to do with the M&R at US.

HA has been in chapter 11 since 9/11, go ask those members why they ratified the language.

It took two bankruptcies and three rounds of concessions with a CBA abrogation to bring the CBA to where it is, before that it was one of the best in the industry, and we shall see what happens if an agreement is reached soon during Section 6 negotiations, the first one since 1999.

 

[CactUSmx]

I heard today from union officials that the IAM is in the process of organizing a card drive at all AA maintenance stations in the next few weeks. What will it take for the AA guys to sign an IAM card?

 

[CactUSmx]

I personally believe money talks bullshit walks. If the IAM were to get US Airways mechanics a good contract to mirror Southwest or United's The IAM would sell itself to the AA mechanics. But I can't see the IAM getting guys to sign cards at AA with the current contract IAM has in place the only thing I See the IAM has over TWU is we get 10 vacation days IAM has a well funded pension and ThevIAM accumulates 10 sick days a year. I can't see AA Mechanics signing cards on that alone. Can You?

 

[TRAVIS]

I personally believe money talks bullshit walks. If the IAM were to get US Airways mechanics a good contract to mirror Southwest or United's The IAM would sell itself to the AA mechanics. But I can't see the IAM getting guys to sign cards at AA with the current contract IAM has in place the only thing I See the IAM has over TWU is we get 10 vacation days IAM has a well funded pension and ThevIAM accumulates 10 sick days a year. I can't see AA Mechanics signing cards on that alone. Can You?

You can bet Parker and the boys want the AA contract, just like they wanted the IAM contract last time that we are stuck with
Got this from the AA post. If you want the money it will not be with the IAM or TWU.
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We agreed to give up the Pension,[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We agreed to unlimited foreign outsourcing[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We agreed to no defined limit on heavy maint outsourcing, the only lititation would be that no more than 35%, subject to exclusions, of the total maintenence spend on work covereed under the agreemnt can be outsourced. If RR backs out of TAESL they can increase that percentage "accordingly".Likely to around 50% of "work covered under this agreement". That means work on MD-80s(being retired), 757s(being retired), 767s, 777s(already outsourced) and 737s(already partially outsourced). Airbus is work we never did so its not covered under the agreement, the company did agree that AA mechanics would work all aircraft that AA flies but did not say that all work on all aircraft AA flies is covered under the agreement, so if we do line maint but outsource the Heavies they will take the position they have complied with the agreement. We used to have language that said that if we bring work not covered under the agreement in house for a period of time it becomes part of the agreement but we eliminated that language. So they could bring Airbus work in, then outsource it and it would not fall under the 35%. As new aircraft come on line the total spend (on work covered under the agreement) will shift towards Line Maintenance, meaning eventually all of the remaining Heavy Maintenance can be outsourced while still staying under the 35% cap.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]In addition to that we gave up our Holidays, if we work all ten formerly recognized Holidays we net just 20 hours extra pay for the year. We used to gross 20 hours pay for each Holiday Worked.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We get a weeks less vacation at every step, starting off the first five years with just one week of Vacation.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We only get 5 sick days, the first at half pay each occurance.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We pay more out of pocket for our Medical than anyone else.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We get straight time for training before or after our shift.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We do not get reimbursed for our passports.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We have no tool allowance.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We have no contractual rules on Travel emergencies.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If we cant afford to contribute to the 401K the company contributes nothing. They admit that they estimate that 30% will contribute nothing.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We only get 10 IOD days.[/background]


[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We have no contractual rules on CS.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We have no DAT days.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We get 1 cent per hour for afternoon shift[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We only get 1.5x after 8 hours on Field trips.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]We never ever go beyonf 1.5X[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]The company picks the Crew Chiefs, not seniority.[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Employee pays 100% of retiree medical regardless of years of service(UAL they pay between 40 and 80% depending on years of service)[/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]There is more, but if it wasnt so sad it would be comical watching the guy in a glass house throe rocks. Everything that he is accusing UAL mechanics of doing we did, and then some. Sure we have more guys paying dues, some in our book are barely above minimum wage, but I never thought that the objective of joining a Union was to maximize the number of dues payers at the expense of everything else. Sure you dont want to lose your job but isnt that why we negotiate Seniority and Recall rights so when you become senior you will enjoy security and if you do get Rif'd you have something good to go back to? If you are going to give everything away than of what value are Seniority and recall? [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]If we truly believe our labor has value then we should force the company to do without that labor unless they pay a fair amount. If that means they RIF and outsource then so be it, other carriers are starting to realize that outsourcing does not provide the value they thought it did and are slowly bringing work back in house. We may never see the volume of in house work we once saw but then again they may never see the supply of qualified workers that was once available either. Reducing our compensation wont fix either of those situations.[/background]

 

[TRAVIS]

Parker and the the boys have TA agreements with the TWU for a raise all in two weeks LOL.