I have heard the same. This is why you AA'ers need to fire the TWU and vote AMFA in. Otherwise you guys will have to take what the TWU gives you which very well could be the IAM. I'm telling you guys you need to act quickly before it is too late. AMFA all the way guys, good luck.
Vote for Union
- Thread starter Mr Eagle
- Start date
I have heard the same. This is why you AA'ers need to fire the TWU and vote AMFA in. Otherwise you guys will have to take what the TWU gives you which very well could be the IAM. I'm telling you guys you need to act quickly before it is too late. AMFA all the way guys, good luck.
We never really did. The International just kept stalling, they finally agreed to ask Nov 30th, the company declared BK on Nov 29th.
Nearly every airline union in the history of the RLA asked to be released after their members rejected a TA, especially if the rejection came after three years of negotiations, and over a year under NMB mediation, but the TWU refused to even ask. The pilots and FAs had good cause to kick the can down the road, by 2010 we were already at the bottom of the industry, they werent. We needed to push the process but the International , the lawyers they hired, the reps from Tulsa and the Title II reps from the fleet locals who did whatever Don told them to do blocked any attempt to get to a release. The line Locals and AFW pushed for it at every opportunity.
The Title II rep from Tulsa accused me of wanting to strike, I told him that although I was willing to strike if it came to that I doubt that we would be allowed to strike, that we would most likely end up in a PEB. I base that on the fact that since 1997 the industry as a whole had consolidated and if a pilot strike at AA in 1997 drove a PEB then more than likely so would a mechanics strike in 2010. Yes I know that NWA took on the mechanics in 2005 but not only is AA bigger than NWA was but the supply of mechanics was not the same in 2010 as it was in 2005 )neither was the supply of seats). AA had made no preparations for a strike, probably because they had assurances from Don that nothing would happen, NWA was prepared and had been preparing for roughly 18 months with a huge supply of riffed A&Ps out there, that supply has evaporated. Our pilots were also engaged in contentious negotiations as were the FAs and AA most likely would not get the cooperation that NWA got from their pilots and FAs when the mechanics went on strike. So based upon the likely success of a mechanics strike, and the fact that conditions favor further disruptions by other groups my guess was we would be placed into the PEB process.
So, tell us whats going on with USAIR and the IAM and why the IAM is sitting idly by while their members concessions and labor are converted into record profits that are not shared with them? Why isnt the IAM demanding a release? Have they even sought mediation?
TWU/IAM, six of one/half a dozen of the other. The TWU at AA was always known as a "docile" union, the IAM at one time had a good reputation and they represented more airline workers than any other union, its sad to see what they became.
[quote']
Rumor has it the TWU and Iam have come to a deal in which thevtwu will get fleet svc and the Iam will get tge mechanics . Has anyone heard this also?
[/quote]
I dont know if they could just hand us over but I have no doubt that they will try and find a way of settling it without it going to a vote. here's one reason why. Lets say they dont come to some sort of an agreement, well if there is a vote there would be three choices. TWU, IAM and "No Union".
Looking at the performance of both the TWU and IAM No Union could end up with the most votes.
Its hard to justify paying $700 a year in dues for the worst deals in the industry. Mechanics who pay nothing get better deals than we get. Both USAIR and AA were the first to give concessions outside of BK and have suffered under them the longest. Delta went BK two years after AA rolled over and three years after US rolled over yet their mechanics are making nearly $5/hr more. So they went through BK and recovered much of what they gave up in less than 7 years. AA's BK related concessions will span from 2003 to 2018!!!!! FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!
"No Union" which would mean decertification: would mean that mechanics no longer have a contract. After a year AMFA or the IBT could file and if they won they would come in with a clean slate. The company pretty much imposed everything they wanted on us already so its not like being without a union would encourage the company to screw us more than Delta or Jet Blue screw their mechanics, sure they could but theres a reason why Delta and Jet Blue dont screw their mechanics as badly as USAIR and AA does , in fact they may take the Delta approach and start improving things and bring the mechanics up to the rest of the industry in order to keep the AMFA or IBT out. It seems like US and AA have taken the position that the unions they have in place actually allow them to treat their workers worse than companies that dont have unions dare to treat their workers, by having the TWU or IAM in place it effectively blocks them from the threat that by mistreating their workers they may end up with AMFA or the IBT. There is little doubt that both the IAM and TWU have done a huge amount of damage to to Unionism and that both have very large percentages of members among the mechanics ranks that see zero value and are only members because if they dont pay they will be terminated.
Rumor has it the TWU and Iam have come to a deal in which thevtwu will get fleet svc and the Iam will get tge mechanics . Has anyone heard this also?
[/quote]
I dont know if they could just hand us over but I have no doubt that they will try and find a way of settling it without it going to a vote. here's one reason why. Lets say they dont come to some sort of an agreement, well if there is a vote there would be three choices. TWU, IAM and "No Union".
Looking at the performance of both the TWU and IAM No Union could end up with the most votes.
Its hard to justify paying $700 a year in dues for the worst deals in the industry. Mechanics who pay nothing get better deals than we get. Both USAIR and AA were the first to give concessions outside of BK and have suffered under them the longest. Delta went BK two years after AA rolled over and three years after US rolled over yet their mechanics are making nearly $5/hr more. So they went through BK and recovered much of what they gave up in less than 7 years. AA's BK related concessions will span from 2003 to 2018!!!!! FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!
"No Union" which would mean decertification: would mean that mechanics no longer have a contract. After a year AMFA or the IBT could file and if they won they would come in with a clean slate. The company pretty much imposed everything they wanted on us already so its not like being without a union would encourage the company to screw us more than Delta or Jet Blue screw their mechanics, sure they could but theres a reason why Delta and Jet Blue dont screw their mechanics as badly as USAIR and AA does , in fact they may take the Delta approach and start improving things and bring the mechanics up to the rest of the industry in order to keep the AMFA or IBT out. It seems like US and AA have taken the position that the unions they have in place actually allow them to treat their workers worse than companies that dont have unions dare to treat their workers, by having the TWU or IAM in place it effectively blocks them from the threat that by mistreating their workers they may end up with AMFA or the IBT. There is little doubt that both the IAM and TWU have done a huge amount of damage to to Unionism and that both have very large percentages of members among the mechanics ranks that see zero value and are only members because if they dont pay they will be terminated.
If the company refuses to meet thats grounds for a release. If the mediator is stalling they should petition the NMB for either a new mediator or a release. Its not fair, by stalling the mediator is helping US to rob their employees. The RLA inteneded to introduce days and maybe weeks for cooler heads to prevail, not allow companies to keep workers under concessions for months or years.
Obviously the IAM is ok with this, otherwise they would be pushing for a release.
Dont assume that the NMB is neutral or worry about pissing them off. Larry Gibbons, the guy in charge of mediation came from AIRCON . When he sat in with us he was glued to Burdettes hip. they hung out together, ate lunch together and were more often than not seen together. So the delay tactics are clearly his way of tipping the scales in favor of the airlines. That said the Unions need to challenge and expose him for the fraud he is. He is going to screw you if you let him, like he did with us, only with us Little helped him and the IAM is doing the same.
Same bottom of the industry "crappy pay" you mean.
OK, IIRC they brought back concessions before BK but the members rejected them, then accepted pretty much the same thing the second time, then gave yet again. The fact is that you guys have been giving huge concessions since 2002, over 11 years with no end in sight, not even a request to be released. Sad, IIRC you guys used to have a clause that kept you one percent above the highest competitor, now your hourly wage is dead last, nearly 50% below the highest paid.
- Banned
- #70
No the company filed chapter 11 on a Sunday, threw a final offer at us, and we didnt vote on anything until after section 1113 negotiations took place and we rejected the offer and voted again on it and it was approved, that was in the first case, in 2002.
Ok, I will take your word for it that you didnt vote on anything before they filed BK (the TWU called the 2003 negotiations "1113 negotiations" even though the company didnt file till 2011) but the fact remains since 2002 you guys have been working under hugely concessionary deals and now nearly11 years after the fact you havent even recovered your hourly wage, not counting inflation either, let alone all the other concessions. Your guys are making a lower hourly rate today than they were back in 2002, Delta and UAL went through BK after you and they have at least brought their hourly rates above what they were before BK. You have been in negotiations for as long as contracts used to last yet are not pushing for a release. In other words you are OK with that.
- Banned
- #72
They got a new CBA with a transition agreement in 2008, Negotiations have been going on for one year unmediated and now a year mediated, thats two years, none of our CBAs have only been two years.
How long did the TWU negotiate?
And we went four years from 95-99 negotiating and the board wouldnt release us, and you know the board wont release them now.
How long did the TWU negotiate?
And we went four years from 95-99 negotiating and the board wouldnt release us, and you know the board wont release them now.
Still, nearly 11 years after the fact and you still have not even recovered the much devalued hourly rate you were making in the Summer of 2002. Dont bother pointing out the TWUs shortfalls, I've been doing that all along, I'm not claiming we did any better, in fact the opposite.. You insist on defending the IAMs inexcusable performance by saying the TWU did worse, the sad fact is non-union did better than both of us. Non-union mechanics at Delta and Jet Blue get a lot higher pay without paying $700 a year in dues than mechanics at USAIR or AA. How do you justify collecting $700/yr in dues when your guys are getting paid around $10,000 less in wages for doing the same work? Where is the added $11000 value that being an IAM member gets each individual mechanic? Sure its great for IAM officails to have the workers give cuts to keep the dues up that provide their salaries but what value do the workers get from paying $700 a year to earn at least $10,000 a year less than they would doing the same work at a non-union airline? In effect having the IAM on the property costs them at least $11000 a year. Thats not a "union advantage" thats a "union penalty". This isnt a temporary anomoly, its been going on for years now.
Saying that the board wont release you is no excuse for not asking, for not picketing the NMB, for not setting your own dates for a walkout citing the fact that the process is broken and how its damaging your members. You know, what unions used to do before union leaders got comfortable with their six figure salaries and started seeing the world as their corporate budddies on the links told them it was.
BigMac
Veteran
This morning (in Tule) shop stewards went around with crew lists. Each employee was asked what union they would like to see here. They had us put our choice on the crew list beside our name and we had to initial it. WTF??? Put AMFA,AMP,IAM or IBT down and they'll black list you...and put you in bad standing. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
