ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Your post is just more teamster BS. "Teamsters act"? More like teamsters put on an "act"
Once again from the AMFA Local 9 President:
http://labornet.org/...ion=read&id=128
M and R negotiations
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Your post is just more teamster BS. "Teamsters act"? More like teamsters put on an "act"
Once again from the AMFA Local 9 President:
http://labornet.org/...ion=read&id=128
That was not the original post from you. In post number 215 you responded to 700 as I have provided below:
Registered Member
PipPipPipPipPip
1,161 posts
View Post700UW, on 15 July 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:
Meanwhile the rest of the story:
UA/CO one of the highest percentage of outsourced heavy maintenance out of all the airlines.
UPS outsources everything above a B-Check.
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And you responded with this;
Bull crap. State your source or at least provide a link with facts.
So I posted my response provided here;
Where you been? It's been stated before numorous times. UPS farms out everything from C- check and above. They've been doing it from the very beginning. This is not new news Anomaly, and you know it.
Anomaly you did Bull crap to the entire post that 700 made, which means you were calling out the UPS statement as well. UPS doesn't do any "in-house" maint larger than a "B" check. Therefore all maint "C" check and above are outsourced. I was merely stating that the UPS statement was true after you called it to be "bull crap" in your posting numbered 215. This is typical of a lot of your postings Anomaly, and this is why I decided to take the time to point this out for all to see (as if they didn't know already) but we do have new people to the forum now and can research for themselves. Keep posting Anomaly, you always seem to do very well for the teamsters.
Anomaly
Veteran
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swamt....how big is that rock you live under? Must you always zoom in on a single item as a way of avoiding an otherwise indefensible and ridiculous position?
Prove UAL is the top or even among the top in percentage of maintenance that is outsourced. All I am asking for is proof or even evidence to support that claim. How much does UA outsource vs ALL other airlines. That was my original question to the claim by 700UW which has still not been addressed.
Either produce some accurate and verifiable statistics or admit the post was crap.
As for UPS, I have no idea what they farm out. You claim to know exactly what is farmed out and what is done in house. Why not produce and share that information with the rest of us as well?
Prove UAL is the top or even among the top in percentage of maintenance that is outsourced. All I am asking for is proof or even evidence to support that claim. How much does UA outsource vs ALL other airlines. That was my original question to the claim by 700UW which has still not been addressed.
Either produce some accurate and verifiable statistics or admit the post was crap.
As for UPS, I have no idea what they farm out. You claim to know exactly what is farmed out and what is done in house. Why not produce and share that information with the rest of us as well?
xUT
Veteran
Come on Anomoly,
I am sure your skin is much thicker than me calling you a reamster, if not then I’ll call you something sweeter as not to hurt your sensibilities… LOL
He11 for all I know, we may have even had a beer together at one time.
I have no ‘skin’ in this game. IBT/IAM/TWU/AMFA. None what so ever. Retired from the Lazy’U many moons ago. But I did spend a lot of time/effort/cash in support of AMFA and I take offense when people distort (politicians call it ‘a liberal license to the truth&rsquo
the facts.It took you awhile, but I see you’ve keyed onto Jim’s video. Yes, that’s a fact the Jim was recalled because they rescinded an LOA. Totally against the AMFA constitution, totally normal with the IAM/TWU and IBT. That’s why he was recalled.
As a point of reference, how many IBT LOA’s have been implemented without a membership vote?
Many of my old constituents believed in the IBT promises, and none have come to fruition.
SFO local, pensions that had a 10 year vestment up front, no more outsourcing, new contract,… YaDa YaDa YaDa…etc..
IBT dropping the outsourcing grievance, why?
That’s why I am here. What about you?
B) xUT
Once again you are attacking the wrong person about the wrong subject Anomaly. I never said UAL is top percentage outsourcer. Therefore I will not do any research for you. As well as with my UPS statement. Yes UPS farms out everything from "C" checks and above. And again I will not do your research for you. It's common knowledge they do, you know it, but, you just don't want to admit it. I have very good friends that work at UPS, plus I know some upper management at UPS that is in charge of the outsourcing at UPS. Do your own research, I won't do it for you.
- Banned
- #232
According to a 2008 audit conducted by the Department of Transportation’s Office of the Inspector General (OIG), nine major air carriers, AirTran Airways, Alaska Airlines, America West Airlines, Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines, JetBlue Airways, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, and United Airlines, outsourced 71 percent of their heavy airframe maintenance checks in 2007. Almost 27 percent of these heavy airframe repairs were outsourced to repair shops overseas. Roughly 20 percent of these repair shops are in developing countries. Therefore, about one in every five planes is being sent to developing countries such as Africa, Asia and South America, to be overhauled and repaired.
United to outsource maintenance work to China
The nation's second-largest carrier says it will send heavy maintenance work for its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company. The company — Ameoco Beijing — received a five-year contract to perform that work in Beijing. As part of the "heavy maintenance," Ameco Beijing will perform some of the most labor-intensive work that must to be done to a jet. "They'll strip everything out and go over it bolt by bolt, rivet by rivet," United spokesman Jeff Green tells the Chicago Tribune (free registration). The Chinese company will begin the work in October, and the move comes after United begin outsourcing the maintenance on 747s to South Korea in April.
That follows a trend by most major U.S. carriers to outsource heavy maintenance work to third parties that can perform the work at a lower cost. U.S. airlines now contract out 53% of maintenance work, up from just 37% in 1996, according to a Bloomberg News report in the Los Angeles Times (free registration). Though much of that outsourcing goes overseas, some stays in North America. Delta, for example, has a contract with Air Canada to have some of maintenance work performed in Vancouver. The heavy maintenance for United's 777s is currently performed in Greensboro, N.C., by Timco Aviation Services. Though unrelated to United's move, Timco was in the news in April as it was investigated by the federal government after six illegal immigrants allegedly used false documents to gain Federal Aviation Administration approval to work as mechanics. Posted 7:15 a.m.
United to outsource maintenance work to China
The nation's second-largest carrier says it will send heavy maintenance work for its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company. The company — Ameoco Beijing — received a five-year contract to perform that work in Beijing. As part of the "heavy maintenance," Ameco Beijing will perform some of the most labor-intensive work that must to be done to a jet. "They'll strip everything out and go over it bolt by bolt, rivet by rivet," United spokesman Jeff Green tells the Chicago Tribune (free registration). The Chinese company will begin the work in October, and the move comes after United begin outsourcing the maintenance on 747s to South Korea in April.
That follows a trend by most major U.S. carriers to outsource heavy maintenance work to third parties that can perform the work at a lower cost. U.S. airlines now contract out 53% of maintenance work, up from just 37% in 1996, according to a Bloomberg News report in the Los Angeles Times (free registration). Though much of that outsourcing goes overseas, some stays in North America. Delta, for example, has a contract with Air Canada to have some of maintenance work performed in Vancouver. The heavy maintenance for United's 777s is currently performed in Greensboro, N.C., by Timco Aviation Services. Though unrelated to United's move, Timco was in the news in April as it was investigated by the federal government after six illegal immigrants allegedly used false documents to gain Federal Aviation Administration approval to work as mechanics. Posted 7:15 a.m.
Hey 700, wasn't there a lot more involved than just 6? I thought I read something in the area of 16-30 were involved with getting ID's at Timco? Maybe it was that Timco was forced to do rechecks on all of them from a certain date or something. Remember the story, just thought there were more numbers involved.
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
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Come on Anomoly,
I am sure your skin is much thicker than me calling you a reamster, if not then I’ll call you something sweeter as not to hurt your sensibilities… LOL
He11 for all I know, we may have even had a beer together at one time.
I have no ‘skin’ in this game. IBT/IAM/TWU/AMFA. None what so ever. Retired from the Lazy’U many moons ago. But I did spend a lot of time/effort/cash in support of AMFA and I take offense when people distort (politicians call it ‘a liberal license to the truth&rsquo
It took you awhile, but I see you’ve keyed onto Jim’s video. Yes, that’s a fact the Jim was recalled because they rescinded an LOA. Totally against the AMFA constitution, totally normal with the IAM/TWU and IBT. That’s why he was recalled.
As a point of reference, how many IBT LOA’s have been implemented without a membership vote?
Many of my old constituents believed in the IBT promises, and none have come to fruition.
SFO local, pensions that had a 10 year vestment up front, no more outsourcing, new contract,… YaDa YaDa YaDa…etc..
IBT dropping the outsourcing grievance, why?
That’s why I am here. What about you?
B) xUT
Easy, I still work here at UA. I finally have improvements and a decent wage. Folks like you standing on the outside are trying to second guess what we have finally gained and add weight to those few who want to change for self serving reasons. I do not want to delay any more improvements so some self seekers can find a paid position with a new union. Leave us alone at UA as we are doing fine for the moment. I simply do not want to go through the agony of another change in representation. Especially while we are gaining some ground. I am tired of going backwards. If it means fighting for my current union, so be it.
I hope you can appreciate that.
(edit by me)
Specifically to your outsourcing grievance.... Lets say the IBT pushes it, and wins. Then what? The company goes back to the 20% language which was lost in arbitration. We win nothing. The 20% outsourcing agreement negotiated by the IAM was flawed from the beginning. We lost thousands of mechanics due to that language.
The Teamsters explained it this way. It's a mess, and it will not help you. How about some language that actually costs the company and pays the mechanic every time they choose to furlough? That is what we have now. Seems better than that IAM 20% muddy language that failed us so badly before.
The pension delay? Ask some of your same constituents if they had a part in the petition to stop the mechanics from joining the WCT pension fund? It was sent to the UA board of directors and many former amfa supporters signed it. In the long run, a pension plan seemed to be a mixed bag of soup. Many members wanted it, many just wanted the money. But you are no longer concerned with those decisions. Right brother?
I hope you are doing well.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
xUT you go right on posting.
The ibt mouth pieces can't defend the teamster failings at UAL so of course anyone seeking change is simply just in it for themselves.
The raises they keep trying to hype came at the expense of gutting our contract, something more and more mechanics are becoming painfully aware of with each passing day.
Now our CBA is passed the amendable date and negotiations are suspended by MUTUAL agreement with the company, as they conspire on how they can possibly get us to give up our medical without getting tossed off the property in the process.
The ibt mouth pieces can't defend the teamster failings at UAL so of course anyone seeking change is simply just in it for themselves.
The raises they keep trying to hype came at the expense of gutting our contract, something more and more mechanics are becoming painfully aware of with each passing day.
Now our CBA is passed the amendable date and negotiations are suspended by MUTUAL agreement with the company, as they conspire on how they can possibly get us to give up our medical without getting tossed off the property in the process.
Anomaly
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- Jun 2, 2012
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What items from the contract were "gutted" exactly to pay for the wage increases? Please name them.
Negotiations were suspended due to an inability by the company to meet the negotiating committees bottom line. I don't know about you, but I would rather wait for a good contract than accept a sub standard amfa or iam turd. I can afford to wait. The last UA contract update stated that the entire steering committee representing virtually every station and work area would be invited to a meeting with the negotiating committee to discuss our options. This meeting is scheduled at the end of this month. I don't want to give up anything. I know my reps and co-workers from SFOMM do not either. I trust in their judgement.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
What items?
How about our increased time to top out for mechanics?
How about our increased time to top out for mechanics helpers?
How about cutting over $3 an hour off the top of the superior UAL cleaners wage scale to match the lower CAL scale, when the ibt knows we still have cleaners with recall rights, and CAL has active cleaners, this was supposed to be setting us up for JCBA negotiations, you think the cleaners on either side think you did them any favors?
How about the elimination of Lead Ratios?
How about new seniority rules for pay and time accrual that screw furloughees?
How about occupation sick time accrual language?
How about allowing 7-day coverage RDOs at the Base?
How about sacrificing superior Profit sharing language?
How about the BAQ system which the ibt allows the company to cross utilize through, and refuses to enforce?
How about the elimination of Skill Pay?
And so on, and so on.....
The ibt traded this and more for a bump in pay to get our agreement as close to the CAL agreement as possible, nothing more.
Anomaly
Veteran
- Jun 2, 2012
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Sure thing guy. You convince just one member of your crew that he should give up the pay raise we received in order to provide a good wage for the cleaners who no longer work here, and I will do the same. UA is never going to recall them. We all know that.
The 12 month increased top out affected how many people? A dozen maybe? I have no idea but it is a small number. With all our UA recalls, when do you expect UA to be able to hire any new employees that will be affected by this language? Not any time soon. I'll take the money for this company savings. No problem.
Eliminating lead ratio language lost us how many leads? ZERO. We have just as many leads as we did before and now it is harder to get rid of them. More company savings, more money for me.
Pay time accruals that screw furloughees? Again, how small a number is that? Most if not all of the mechanics on furlough are already topped out. This language applies only to those who are on B scale. I am OK with this language. If a guy hires on at UA works for 8 months and then furloughed for 5 years 4 months, you want him to come back as an topped out full wage earner mechanic? Call me stinky but the 90 day credit he will received seems fair to me. And the company is willing to pay me to agree. I'll take it.
Sick time language improvements were turned down in the first TA in favor of more money. Sad but true. Besides TSH, you have to actually work in order to risk an on the job injury. Fugget about it.... No language change.
7 day coverage at the base? Similar language has been around since at least 1994. When has the company used it? And for this they will pay me more? Cha Ching.,,,
Sacrificing superior profit sharing? You mean that check that bought us lunch and a couple of beers every 6 months? Yeah, you can have that back too. I will take guaranteed increased wages any day over a "profit sharing" check in the mail.
BAQ's? Would you rather use the acronym we used before for Training and Qualifications? You don't like these new letters? I disagree that the BAQ's offer any type of cross utilization, but I am concerned at the time the company is taking in implementing the plan. Once completed I do like the way the new system will offer us a chance to monitor and challenge our training and qualifications records. It should have been done by now. No money here either.
Skill pay eliminated? Seriously? Nobody told you? How much did your skill pay go up with each passing wage increase?? ZERO DUDE!! Skill pay was another BAD IAM play that really held us back. The Teamsters took the skill pay, removed the category and stuck the pay in to our basic wages. That way any wage adjustment would be made based on the entire base pay and not base pay minus "skill pay". How much money over the years do you think we lost because skill pay was never used to calculate increases? The IAM played right in to the companies hands with that one. Think about it while I spend the extra money for this language change.
Your so on's and so on's? What more ridiculous claims do you want to make? Did YOU or any mechanic working on your crew actually LOOSE any money because of this agreement? Get real my Teamster brother. You know you like the contract. We all do.
Weak. No meaningful progress on the IAM, no picketing since they filed for a release. They seem perfectly fine kicking the can down the road. I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to get a T/A similar to UA for the US membership.
Josh
