Looks like our industry adjusted wage is $1.63

[dfw gen]

Even if DL announced the raise before the average, it still wouldn't have mattered as it's not effective till December.

SO you advise us to settle for less?



So the IAM strategy is the same as the twu?

You would make a great twu rep!

 

[dfw gen]

 
The TWU, yes. I'm in a bit of distress right now though.

That's funny. Me thinks a lot of distress is coming down the road.

 

[dfw gen]

 
I believe the PS plan that was in place and given up was 15% of pre-tax earnings. If AA makes $8B that would be $1.2B in the fund for distribution. If split between 85,000 people that would be ~$14K per employee.

And we settled for 4.3% raise which if you worked all the overtime and made $100,000 that would be an additional $4,300.00.
THANK YOU TWU AND JIM LITTLE YOUR MATH WORKS OUT GREAT. For the company

Gives me a little distress...

 

[Vortilon]

 
I believe the PS plan that was in place and given up was 15% of pre-tax earnings. If AA makes $8B that would be $1.2B in the fund for distribution. If split between 85,000 people that would be ~$14K per employee.

 
Yeah,  IIRC that last profit sharing formula was pretty lame.  $14K per employee?  Would've been nice, but that formula was drawn up long before the profits started soaring.

 

[700UW]

SO you advise us to settle for less?
So the IAM strategy is the same as the twu?
You would make a great twu rep!

Where did I say that?

Put down the haterade.

 

[dfw gen]

Where did I say that?

Put down the haterade.

Even if DL announced the raise before the average, it still wouldn't have mattered as it's not effective till December.

 

[700UW]

Are you that dense?

Where did I say you should earn less?

I never said that.

Now let's look at this simply.

If DL announced a raise effective December your average would have had to taken BEFORE the average, not after.

It's a pretty simple process to understand.

 

[WeAAsles]

I believe the PS plan that was in place and given up was 15% of pre-tax earnings. If AA makes $8B that would be $1.2B in the fund for distribution. If split between 85,000 people that would be ~$14K per employee.

In hindsight and not having a crystal ball at that moment it looks like the exchange was a mistake. There was NO way of knowing that oil was going to drop like a stone and the airlines would make a killing off of that. We also didn't know that the economy would improve so much that the airlines would be packed to capacity. We also didn't know for certainty that DL and UAL would leapfrog us in pay and bring up the averages. We didn't know a lot of things since no one has a crystal ball.

At the time the decision was made it was a good decision. Despite what the armchair quarterbacks are saying now.

 

[dfw gen]

In hindsight and not having a crystal ball at that moment it looks like the exchange was a mistake. There was NO way of knowing that oil was going to drop like a stone and the airlines would make a killing off of that. We also didn't know that the economy would improve so much that the airlines would be packed to capacity. We also didn't know for certainty that DL and UAL would leapfrog us in pay and bring up the averages. We didn't know a lot of things since no one has a crystal ball.

At the time the decision was made it was a good decision. Despite what the armchair quarterbacks are saying now.

historically whenever there is an exit from bankruptcy profits are TREMENDOUS for the first few years then they level out. very bad decision on ijm littles part

 

[WeAAsles]

historically whenever there is an exit from bankruptcy profits are TREMENDOUS for the first few years then they level out. very bad decision on ijm littles part

I did the math on what they would have needed to make year over year for it too have been a bad decision and it wasn't. This coming year yes, it would have been nice to have. But we would have also lost the last few years of value if it had remained the way it was. 

You have to look at the compounding wage you made and the contributions to your 401k to get the real picture. We can't live in the moment here.

 

[dfw gen]

I did the math on what they would have needed to make year over year for it too have been a bad decision and it wasn't. This coming year yes, it would have been nice to have. But we would have also lost the last few years of value if it had remained the way it was. 

You have to look at the compounding wage you made and the contributions to your 401k to get the real picture. We can't live in the moment here.

true but then we would be negotiating AND receiving profit sharing at the same time. well let me take that back we would be getting profit sharing, negotiations well in a few years when they start....
 
you know the funny thing is the hold up seems to be class seniority. wonder what the company will agree to and what they will not.it would be ironic if they company says they will only agree to do it one way. kind of like the iam wants bulletin boards on the east wall  the twu the west wall but the company will only put them on the north wall. but the twu and the iam will argue which wall to put them on
 
the only leverage they have is the membership and they refuse to use it because they will not keep us informed. it is always a struggle to get information, their numbers should be published at the very least they should answer their email. we should not have to go on a wheres waldo search to find them....

 

[MetalMover]

true but then we would be negotiating AND receiving profit sharing at the same time. well let me take that back we would be getting profit sharing, negotiations well in a few years when they start....
 
you know the funny thing is the hold up seems to be class seniority. wonder what the company will agree to and what they will not.it would be ironic if they company says they will only agree to do it one way. kind of like the iam wants bulletin boards on the east wall  the twu the west wall but the company will only put them on the north wall. but the twu and the iam will argue which wall to put them on
 
the only leverage they have is the membership and they refuse to use it because they will not keep us informed. it is always a struggle to get information, their numbers should be published at the very least they should answer their email. we should not have to go on a wheres waldo search to find them....

So who is actually to blame for the status of NON negotiating?  I am starting to believe that the union is not ready. And I don't just mean with respect to the association being far apart on their issues. I have a hunch the company knows what they want but the union wants to see it before huddling for a response.
If they can't agree now, then nothing will change. They should agree to binding arbitration and move this process along.