Local 514 Officers - Make Fools of Themselves at AFW

[RV4]

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On 7/21/2003 1037 PM Kevin Hammack wrote:

I've run in one election....you on the other hand couldn't get elected here or AFW in several elections! The difference is, I'm not a quitter and you are. Because you couldn't get elected you choose to try to destroy the TWU by lying time and time again. What I do is called "activism", what you do is called LYING! If you can lie right to my face, it must be very easy to lie on here. Oh, one more thing, being as you are a "welder", does that mean that YOU are riding the coat tails of the A&P mechanics or aren't you thankful to the NMB for placing "welders" in with "Mechanic & Related"?
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Activism huh? OK


ac•tiv•ism

Pronunciation: (ak'tu-viz"um), [key]
—n.
1. the doctrine or practice of vigorous action or involvement as a means of achieving political or other goals, sometimes by demonstrations, protests, etc.
2. Philos.
a. a theory that the essence of reality is pure activity, esp. spiritual activity, or process.
b. a theory that the relationship between the mind and the objects of perception depends upon the action of the mind.

You are correct Kevin, you and your bus drivers union have a doctrine of vigorous action to reduce the pay and benefits of the aircraft maintenance technician. There are clearly 20 years of Industry Leading Concessions to prove the results of activism on your scale. You are on the right track though if we stay with the TWU, because to make it to the top in the TWU, you wont need to be elected, you will need be a suck up and get appointed just like you have done your current lowly position. Tell us Kevin, do the Tulsa Mechanics need ASAP so bad that you must be off the dock every hour of every working day? Or are you just worthless and lazy?

How do you consider advocating and election between unions "DESTROYING THE TWU"? Are you some kind of Communist that fears democratic voting for decision making or what?

 

[Buck]

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On 7/21/2003 1037 PM Kevin Hammack wrote:

I'll be Dave, you are the cowardly lion! I thought I'd offer my insight on what happened in Dallas (since I was there)and you seem to be having trouble with it. The trial committee was, in fact, appointed by the local 567 executive board. Knowing that the majority of those individuals have signed cards, is it such a stretch to figure who they selected to sit on the trial committee? The fact is that Cunningham was at the meetings here in Tulsa, he was organizing here, and he lied and continues to lie about it!(I witnessed all 3 meetings that day and you know it because you and Cunningham both saw me). It is true that people were not allowed to testify, it is true that the 567 V.P. was told NOT TO OBJECT, it is true that the trial committee had no prior experience in arbitration or trial proceedings therefore they made huge mistakes in what we know as "due process". As far as our conversation today, I'm surprised that you don't remember it. Do you think you can bully the unsuspecting sucker that was in your truck with you today to lie about it too? C'mon Dave, everyone sees right through you when you lie and it really doesn't become you to do so. Just admit that your a lying piece of crap and lets get on with the debate!

I've run in one election....you on the other hand couldn't get elected here or AFW in several elections! The difference is, I'm not a quitter and you are. Because you couldn't get elected you choose to try to destroy the TWU by lying time and time again. What I do is called "activism", what you do is called LYING! If you can lie right to my face, it must be very easy to lie on here. Oh, one more thing, being as you are a "welder", does that mean that YOU are riding the coat tails of the A&P mechanics or aren't you thankful to the NMB for placing "welders" in with "Mechanic & Related"?

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As an activist for the TWU do you tire of representing all of the welders within the TWU? What other members of the NMB determined class and craft do you tire of, the machinists? If you Mr. Hammack do not want these two skills within your mechanic professions there are means for their removal. As a TWU activist, you should adhere to the TWU constitution and its locals by-laws and not attempt to undermine the fate of the welders and machinists.
 
When was the last time you worked as an A&P mechanic and used your signature in conjuction with aircraft work?

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 7/22/2003 12:55:33 AM twuer wrote:

Why is it that every time a TWU member writes a response that you AMFA boys don't like it turns into a personal attack? A little kidding now and then doesn't hurt but this response (and some others I've read) sure sounds like you are on the defensive. It appears you guys can't handle the truth. Oh no, there I go quoting a movie. Just like you RV4!

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That's right. I have a problem with people who claim to be "union men" then, for their own personal gain, take union positions without adhearing to union ideals such as seniority. Their are a few of these positions within the TWU/AA Alliance. Safety coordinator and ASAP are just two. Un-Elected. Not bid by seniority. Just put in place on the "good ole boy" system the TWU is known so well for. I know I'm off topic so I'll quit now, but if you support this policy, then you're no advocate of democracy or unionism. Just admit it.
And while were at it, let's draw another line in the sand. You twuers are alright with "more jobs for less pay". Fine, just admit that's your position. It's called Socialism. We AMFA guys believe the union's job is to protect wages and benifits. It's called unionism.

 

[RV4]

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On 7/21/2003 1037 PM Kevin Hammack wrote:

I''ll be Dave, you are the cowardly lion! I thought I''d offer my insight on what happened in Dallas (since I was there)and you seem to be having trouble with it. The trial committee was, in fact, appointed by the local 567 executive board. Knowing that the majority of those individuals have signed cards, is it such a stretch to figure who they selected to sit on the trial committee? ----------------​

Kevin Hammack ,

One can only wonder, if you have evidence that the "majority of those individuals (567 E-Board) have signed cards" as you clain to know, then why only the charges on Cunningham? Why don''t you have charges filed on those others that you claim to know signed cards? Local 514 has removed a Shop Steward for signing a card. Shouldn''t you and your band of headhunters be saving those Local 567 members from themselves?

Or is it a fact that YOU are the one telling the LIES and don''t really "Know that the majority of those individuals have signed cards, is it such a stretch to figure who they selected to sit on the trial committee?"

Tell us Kevin, are you outirght telling us lies, or are you selectively participating in enforcement of the Constiution?

You claim to know who I am.

My authorization card is current, I wear AMFA t-shirts, I was at the same meeting Cunningham was at, I am an AMFA organizer, I am advocating withdrawal and replacement of the TWU, I am member of an organziation "dual to the TWU". I am now asking you or any other person who seeks a future for the profession to sign a card an vote to replace the TWU as our bargaining agent. Now take that information and file chrages against me, prosecute me, testify against me, do something to make yourself feel needed and upholding your oath to the TWU.

If you really believe in "strength in numbers", it is quite apparent that the numbers strength of the pofession has now tilted strongly in favor of AMFA!

Come on you lackey, put up or shut up! File the charges on me and redeem yourself for your wasted trip outside the 46 mile radius.

 

[Checking it Out]

Dave i see you are a little bit Mad. I was under the impression you have ran several times for a TWU position and the membership had enough common sence to understand they had no desire to want you to represent them. Makes since after this thread.

Ramble on and on with lies and intimidation. Keep up the great job!

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Lie #5 on this thread by Dave;

No wonder the TWU sold us out to prevent force majeure layoffs. If this is they handle our grievance procedure, we need a new union worse than we ever thought!
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The three members on the trial committee supported amfa when they choose to allow amfa shirts to be worn in the procedings.

A true TWU member who believes in the TWU would have requested the proceedings to be orderly. As it was their was no Organization to the proceedings and it was a farce.

I can't wait for the file to show how the amfa wantabes are going to represent the members if they were ever to get in. What a joke!

You all need to read the threads and see if these are the Individuals you really want to represent you!

Here is some amfa Members requesting the experience of the IAM to come and help!

----so i'm going to put my ass on the line w/some of my friends by saying...larry, ken, tom, lou, dave etc. THE MEMBERS AT NWA NEED YOUR EXPERIENCE! i know there was some disbelief and some bitterness when the IAM lost NWA, but it's been 4YEARS! time to get over it and be what you are; the most experienced union reps on the property. larry, we really need your help! obviously the amfa wouldn't be our union if a majority hadn't voted for them, and guess what? that's what democracy is:-----

-----tom NWA is going to screw these members inside and out if we don't get some experienced help to fight that! the worst thing about the amfa is their lack of experience and training, well you guys got it and we helped pay for it, so please? would you guys consider helping the members out again? if we all don't stick together in this, none of us are going to have positions at NWA. larry and tom, just so you know...building"B" will be closed completely in less than 2 years, you guys have enough senority to bump to the line; but for how long? larry, tom, john...the members need your experience, not your anger and resentment. please, we need you. -charlie orme Ld Custodian-----

You all need to Understand after 4 Years the Members are begging the experience IAM Members to help! You need to really think about who started this thread and the supporters of amfa and look closely how they would represent you!

A signed card means elimination of your Job at the Bases!

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[RV4]

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On 7/22/2003 7:35:40 PM Checking it Out wrote:


We AMFA guys believe the union's job is to protect wages and benifits. It's called unionism.




RUM@AA I think you have been drinking some of your Kool-aid again.
If you do not have members who is amfa representing?
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Thanks again for pointing out your belief that the UNION is really something other than the members in your mind. Who is the TWU in your mind anyway? You guys are in denial that this is NOT a movement by an institution, it actually is your own damn union members fed up with your concession peddling leadership, regardless if you want believe that or not, it is the FACT.

 

[RV4]

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On 7/22/2003 7:29:47 PM Kevin Hammack wrote:

Buck,
I’m sure Dave will thank you later, (privately) for chiming in. The fact is that you guys can’t answer the questions without lying. Answer the questions honestly or don’t respond. Did he (Dan) do it or didn’t he? Did he admit it or didn’t he? You and I know that he did (do it). Do you actually condone lying as part of the status quo in AMFA? Is it okay as long as you get whom you want in office?
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Dan never took the stand you idiot, how did he lie if never had to answer a single question because the Local 514 Stooges got him off the hook?

Did you or did you not have to be told by a Police Officer to leave the building or go to jail?

Did he tell you to get in your car and go north?

Disorderly? That was the Local 514 Officers getting involved in another Local's affairs.

You also must have lied about "Knowing" that the majority of the Local 567 have signed cards? If you were not telling lies, then name the majority signers?

Are you going to defend your union and your "Concessions for Jobs" program? Or are you and CIO going to keep telling the members to look at other airlines while you screw them out of pay, benefits, job security, and seniority?

It is always someone else's fault with you liberal idiots! You never screw up do you?

 

[Checking it Out]

We AMFA guys believe the union''s job is to protect wages and benifits. It''s called unionism.




RUM@AA I think you have been drinking some of your Kool-aid again.
If you do not have members who is amfa representing? with unlimited farmout language at 5 or 6 airlines now amfa does not contest this issue they just let it happen. That is when you have Real Estate agents fighting for your rights. make a commission with nothing in return?

Sign a Card and give your Job away! What a track record to be proud of?

TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Kevin Hammack]

Buck,
I’m sure Dave will thank you later, (privately) for chiming in. The fact is that you guys can’t answer the questions without lying. Answer the questions honestly or don’t respond. Did he (Dan) do it or didn’t he? Did he admit it or didn’t he? You and I know that he did (do it). Do you actually condone lying as part of the status quo in AMFA? Is it okay as long as you get whom you want in office?

 

[Kevin Hammack]

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On 7/22/2003 8:58:20 AM RUM@AA wrote:

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On 7/22/2003 12:55:33 AM twuer wrote:

Why is it that every time a TWU member writes a response that you AMFA boys don''t like it turns into a personal attack? A little kidding now and then doesn''t hurt but this response (and some others I''ve read) sure sounds like you are on the defensive. It appears you guys can''t handle the truth. Oh no, there I go quoting a movie. Just like you RV4! Ease up BUM@AA, oops sorry, RUM@AA. (Just a joke, don''t come after me now!) Let''s get back to the debate shall we. . .I myself am waiting for the "transcript". Then we''ll get the whole story. The whole true story.

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That''s right. I have a problem with people who claim to be "union men" then, for their own personal gain, take union positions without adhearing to union ideals such as seniority. Their are a few of these positions within the TWU/AA Alliance. Safety coordinator and ASAP are just two. Un-Elected. Not bid by seniority. Just put in place on the "good ole boy" system the TWU is known so well for. I know I''m off topic so I''ll quit now, but if you support this policy, then you''re no advocate of democracy or unionism. Just admit it.
And while were at it, let''s draw another line in the sand. You twuers are alright with "more jobs for less pay". Fine, just admit that''s your position. It''s called Socialism. We AMFA guys believe the union''s job is to protect wages and benifits. It''s called unionism.


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Dear AMFA second stringer, (RUM@AA),
Just a couple of things for you, although the Union had asked for people to step up and volunteer to take the ASAP position, it was not filled by anyone for about 6 months before I was asked (you would know that had you attended any Union meetings at all). The reason no one took it is because it requires you to put in extra time and it is NOT a “paidâ€￾ position. So, the position was available to anyone who was interested in it and there were no takers (where were you?).

 

[Kevin Hammack]

Well, here we are again Dave…. You never answer the questions but I’ll be so kind as to answer yours… again! I never said Dan lied on the stand, what I said was that Dan lied! Now if you’d have been there in the same circle with the rest of his loyalists, you would have heard him skirt the question like everyone else heard. I urged him to at least be honest with the guys standing there, and in true AMFA and Dan Cunningham fashion, he would not admit that he was in Tulsa and that he was helping organize (even after the trial committee had left). We all know the truth and he wouldn’t tell it…hence, HE LIED! Also I was NEVER told to leave the facility by the police and jail was certainly never mentioned, ANOTHER LIE! The sheriff never told me or anyone else to “go north†or anything of the sort, ANOTHER LIE! Being an officer had nothing to do with why any of us went, we were in fact requested by local 567 to attend. If you’d like a list of the 567 officers who have signed cards I’m sure we can come up with that, but lets try to be honest, are you denying that? Lastly, if the members look at the AMFA track record at other carriers, they will see for themselves where they stand in the “concession†category. And yes Dave, we do screw up but it’s hard for you to tell because you are a habitual LIAR! You are losing credibility here Dave, you might want to address the previous questions, or in typical AMFA and Dave fashion, go on to the next issue.

 

[Buck]

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On 7/22/2003 7:29:47 PM Kevin Hammack wrote:

Buck,
I’m sure Dave will thank you later, (privately) for chiming in. The fact is that you guys can’t answer the questions without lying. Answer the questions honestly or don’t respond. Did he (Dan) do it or didn’t he? Did he admit it or didn’t he? You and I know that he did (do it). Do you actually condone lying as part of the status quo in AMFA? Is it okay as long as you get whom you want in office?


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As for chiming in, I have posting here for a long time. It is you that is new to this forum and I welcome your participation. You will make organizing the demise of the TWU easier. I do not have any idea what Dan did or did not do. I was not in attendance. I believe he left you a message on the-mechanic.com. No I do not condone lying, if I did I would pay dues to the TWU.

Do you believe that the welders and or machinists or to expand further Title 1 non-mechanics are riding on the mechanics coat tails? Per your statement, below:

I''ve run in one election....you on the other hand couldn''t get elected here or AFW in several elections! The difference is, I''m not a quitter and you are. Because you couldn''t get elected you choose to try to destroy the TWU by lying time and time again. What I do is called "activism", what you do is called LYING! If you can lie right to my face, it must be very easy to lie on here. Oh, one more thing, being as you are a "welder", does that mean that YOU are riding the coat tails of the A&P mechanics or aren''t you thankful to the NMB for placing "welders" in with "Mechanic & Related"?

You accuse me of not answering a question without lying, yet you have no proof and you fail to answer the question I posed to you. Do you advocate the removal of the other than mechanic from the craft and class of the A&P Mechanic and related. Be careful because youe quoted post will either make you a liar or show that you despise welders, machinists etc...

 

[RV4]

From the-mechanic.com

[url="http://the-mechanic.com/mainbb.html"]http://the-mechanic.com/mainbb.html[/URL]

Received: 07/22/03 02:41:34 EDT
Name: Dan Cunningham
E-Mail: mailto:
Employer: AA
Location: AFW
Message:

To Whom it May Concern:

I would like to thank all the folks that took the time out of their Saturday, July 19, 2003 to come witness Justice being served at AFW Local 567. Our bretheren from the north (Tulsa) seem somewhat confused about the events of the day, but I'm sure someday soon, perhaps within 4 months, they'll better understand reality. I take exception at some of the comments I've read here and at usaviation.com, but I consider the sources.

I have given the twu every chance to prove their worth as the bargaining agent for Mechanic & Related workers at AA and they have failed miserably. Instead, the twu international coaches punks, drunks and cowards to do their dirty work for them by assailing dues paying reps that are intent on defending the membership, both from the company and their own union.

Character assassinations do not bother me in the least for I know the character of the cowards involved. To Kevin Hammack I say; "I am not required to prove my guilt for I did not charge myself. Simple thought, Kevin, for an obviously simple mind. If you cannot understand that concept you'll be a wanna believer/I got miner like your ole buddy, Kirk (in it for me) Wells for eternity. Perhaps Mein Kampf meant more to you than it did for me, Kevin.

I pity anyone that has ever had Matt Lorenzi represent them in a serious issue. God help them, because Matt could not/cannot/will not, ever! I feel badly that K. Hammack indicates that I have lied about anything regarding my efforts in gaining true, just, democratic representation! I did not avoid calling myself to the stand to refute anything for I did not need to. Mr. Wells was all I thought he was intellectually! I knew I would be vindicated. To say Mr. Lorenzi could not "object" to questioning is also a misstatement, for I was the first to be denied the right to object by the Trial Committee.

The Trial Committee failed to pay homage to our great Arbitor and conducted a legitimate proceeding. Mr. Lorenzi failed the anti Dan Tulsa troupe by calling a seemingly blind, deaf, and dumb buffoon to the stand after his "Star" witness, the guy with no corroborating testimony or evidence, Mr. Kirk Wells. I wish now to thank Les Howard for turning the tide for the defense. Les, you made Gary's and my day with your blatherings. I knew you seemed confused when I was in Tulsa, but I thought it was just a show. I know better now, dude! How do you represent anyone as an e-board member? I pity them, too! The Trial Committee did not refuse to allow Lorenzi to call other witnesses, he was just too confused by then to know what to do!

Mr. Lorenzi blew the case for the prosecution. I hope he bought ya'll dinner or some booze to forget the day quicker. Perhaps he already had enough for the whole gang of ya in his supply locker in the back of the suburban Glad to hear you guys from Tulsa were able to remember the way back to Tulsa, or did you have to use an onboard Mapsco to see you through the confusion of I-35 to the turnpike. I know Les Howard didn't drive. Do you car pool to work, Les?, on the short bus?

Thanks for the Memories Matt, Kirk Wells, Kevin Hammack, Les Howard and the supporting cast. Next time you Tulsa twu believers are in town stop by and say hi, we at Local 567 will role out the Welcome Matt for you anytime.

Its all about the Love, and don't forget,
"Tough Love is Better than No Love at All!"

God Bless all those represented by the twu, for they will need it!!
Concensual Agreement 2003
twu Run by a person found guilty of Violating Workers Rights! Now that says Something doesn't it!
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[Kevin Hammack]

Buck,
You are so very witty and quick to spin! I welcome all the crafts that the NMB decides to align with the “craft and classâ€￾. Not including them is not my M.O., it’s AMFA’S! The question was posed to Dave since he organizes for an association who’s national director has professed in the past to advance the AMT profession. It’s clear that your AMFA has a problem with workers who have been assigned to our “craft and classâ€￾.

AMFA National Director removed the only Cleaner from the Northwest Airlines negotiating committee after she complained about what was being negotiated for the Cleaner classification. The Cleaner Representative, Kathy Lulek, was forced to obtain a Temporary Restraining Order to remain on the negotiating committee.

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 7/22/2003 7:35:40 PM Checking it Out wrote:


We AMFA guys believe the union''s job is to protect wages and benifits. It''s called unionism.




RUM@AA I think you have been drinking some of your Kool-aid again.
If you do not have members who is amfa representing? with unlimited farmout language at 5 or 6 airlines now amfa does not contest this issue they just let it happen. That is when you have Real Estate agents fighting for your rights. make a commission with nothing in return?

Sign a Card and give your Job away! What a track record to be proud of?

TWU SOLIDARITY!



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Ok. Name the "5 or 6" airlines with "unlimited farmout language".

NWA limit is 35% of labor dollars. TWU at AA is 49.9%.
AMFA now represents more mechanic and related than the TWU.
NWA has been sending 747 and DC10 heavy maint to Singapore for 8 years. AMFA has been there for 4.
What rights are you talking about? The right to vote on consessions or the right of Jim Little and Sonny the bus driver to DICTATE consessions?

Don''t sign a card and give away your pay and benifits! I waited 17 years to get 5 weeks of vacation and when I finally got my fifth week, just before I was about to take it, Jimbo and Sonny took it away so some 5 year low senior OSM could keep his job. The TWU of old let layoffs happen in 72, 81, 93 and 100% of those laid off got called back to the high wages they left behind. The tw-useless of today screwed us all forever. We will NEVER get back what they gave away and the people that hit the street, even if they ever come back will come back to lower wages and fewer benifits. CAN YOU DENY ANY OF THAT CIO? NO.
Maybe I drank Kool-aid, but you''ve been drinking ipicak syrup. Everything you spew is pure vomit.
If you think your saving unionism, think again.
For every one NWA mech you dredge up with an AMFA horror story, I can find 10 with no love for the TWU.

TWU Solidarity is non-existant. Seen the card count lately?