Let's Take A Look At The Military Records

[USAir757]

No...I don't think the world is going to jump...but there is a sliver of hope that they might. And that sliver is far more than Bush could enlist.

I would imagine you also think we owe the world an apology too. I mean, to say that Iraq is not part of the war on terror is to say that bombs aren't going off in their streets and civilians aren't being killed there everyday. It is terror central. We don't owe the world anything... we did something to protect our homeland from a potential threat. It is something we don't need to apologize for. So for us, as a nation, to kick the person out of office who made the decision to protect us without using the "global test", and put in someone else will just make us look weak to the world. Like we don't even support protecting ourselves from terror.

I think y'all need to be afraid of the 18-29 year old vote. It's THEIR lives that Bush is playing with.

So funny - because the president has said blantantly over and over again that he has no plans to propose a draft. And then, suddenly, two democrats propose a draft bill in congress - no doubt to stir up the conversation so John Kerry could use it in his campaign. Talk about appealing to people's fears!!!

 

[KCFlyer]

I would imagine you also think we owe the world an apology too.

YOu would be wrong.

I mean, to say that Iraq is not part of the war on terror is to say that bombs aren't going off in their streets and civilians aren't being killed there everyday. It is terror central.

It is now....Courtesy of George Bush. Recruitment is up over there, I hear.

We don't owe the world anything... we did something to protect our homeland from a potential threat. It is something we don't need to apologize for. So for us, as a nation, to kick the person out of office who made the decision to protect us without using the "global test", and put in someone else will just make us look weak to the world. Like we don't even support protecting ourselves from terror.

I guess it goes to that "we had to start somewhere after we let Osama get away". How secure are our ports? I mean a drug sniffing labrador can find only so many explosives...and then, only if they are surrounded by marijuana. How secure are our chemical plants? The chemical companies seemed to tell Bush that "we've got that covered", he said "okay" and they remain unguarded. We attacked a country that was not a threat to the United States, claiming that it might have been a threat. HOpe other countries don't feel that we might be a threat to them and use a similar strategy over here. In the meantime, stock up on duct tape and plastic sheeting.....I think were far more vulnerable than you'd like to believe.

So funny - because the president has said blantantly over and over again that he has no plans to propose a draft. And then, suddenly, two democrats propose a draft bill in congress - no doubt to stir up the conversation so John Kerry could use it in his campaign. Talk about appealing to people's fears!!!

Actually, I remember Bush's daddy saying "read my lips, no new taxes" then reneged on that pledge. They are politicians. It comes with the territory. But....lets say Bush gets re-elected (God help us) and that we discover that Iraq is selling nuclear stuff to the terrorists...we're pretty busy in Iraq...where will Bush get the manpower he will need to conduct a preemptive strike on Iran? I know. It's spelled "D-R-A-F-T". Bush was so gung ho on a country that wasn't a threat that he shot his wad there, and when a country reveals itself to be an ACTUAL threat, our troops are busy elsewhere. I know Kerry says no draft, but I believe that the democrats who introduced the draft bill should be considered "realists".

 

[Fly]

I say....let's forget the draft. Let's say this: anyone who is stupid enough to vote for this uneducated moron is lucky enough to have their children be the first people to get blown up by Muslims. Whadya say? Sound good? Take a good look at those kiddies and kiss their butts goodbye. Why should my kid be killed? I didn't vote for such a stupid piece of poo.

 

[USAir757]

It is now....Courtesy of George Bush.

It has been for years. The whole time Clinton was in office (though he chose to ignore it)... and even before that. People have been terrorized there for years. You think all these terrorists just came out of the wood work? They don't just hate America because we are occupying Iraq. They hate us anyway. I, for one, am glad we're fighting them on their turf and not ours.

I think were far more vulnerable than you'd like to believe.

No, I agree with you on that. But, like I just said, I'm glad we are fighting this war abroad and not here.

Actually, I remember Bush's daddy saying "read my lips, no new taxes" then reneged on that pledge. They are politicians. It comes with the territory.

Sure, politicians lie, there's no question about it. Like John Kerry saying that GWB is "playing to our fears"... when in actuality, he is doing the same thing to America's youth by scaring them with the draft. Same deal.

But....lets say Bush gets re-elected (God help us) and that we discover that Iraq is selling nuclear stuff to the terrorists...we're pretty busy in Iraq...where will Bush get the manpower he will need to conduct a preemptive strike on Iran?

We have to get through this phase of the war before we can start another. And if Kerry is elected, I wouldn't be too worried about carrying out what we've started, much less going after terrorists abroad. Look at what people like you in his party have done to President Bush, why would he risk the ridicule you people put up just for trying to protect the nation? He'll take the internationally popular road... whatever that might be.

I know Kerry says no draft, but I believe that the democrats who introduced the draft bill should be considered "realists".

No, they're just politicians who are making political moves. Kerry called on them to bring the issue to the floor so he could instill a little fear into the minds of people so they wouldn't vote for Bush. The president has done the same thing with the war on terror, I'll admit. It's all politics.

I say....let's forget the draft. Let's say this: anyone who is stupid enough to vote for this uneducated moron is lucky enough to have their children be the first people to get blown up by Muslims.

Thank you for your unbelievably thoughtless and inappropriate attack on my family and I. But with your regular display of idiotic posts, nothing you write surprises me anymore.

Can somebody talk some sense into Fly - he won't listen to me.

 

[NWA/AMT]

I mean, to say that Iraq is not part of the war on terror is to say that bombs aren't going off in their streets and civilians aren't being killed there everyday. It is terror central.

[post="195182"][/post]​

How much of that terrorism has arisen because of our occupation and because of the structure we have put in place in the Iraqi Interim Government? Considering that the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), the law which serves as the central principle of the Iraqi government, attempts to override a thousand years of history simply by declaring that the government will not be based on ethnicity or sect, but on geography and history, it is no surprise that many Iraqis are angry.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/ig.htm

 

[KCFlyer]

It has been for years. The whole time Clinton was in office (though he chose to ignore it)... and even before that. People have been terrorized there for years. You think all these terrorists just came out of the wood work? They don't just hate America because we are occupying Iraq. They hate us anyway. I, for one, am glad we're fighting them on their turf and not ours.

The difference is that MORE hate us now...ones who really didn't care one way or the other prior to March 2003...who are signing up. That's courtesy of Dubya.

No, I agree with you on that. But, like I just said, I'm glad we are fighting this war abroad and not here.

Yet.

Sure, politicians lie, there's no question about it. Like John Kerry saying that GWB is "playing to our fears"... when in actuality, he is doing the same thing to America's youth by scaring them with the draft. Same deal.

Ah...but Bush scaring Americans by telling them that a vote for Kerry is a vote for another terrorist attack. This could become his "read my lips" moment. If Bush is reelected and we have another attack on his watch, I think a lot of folks might "want a refund" since Bush couldn't (and isn't) protecting us any better than Kerry. Of course, he doesn't really care...he can't be reelected, Cheney won't run...it'll come down to the GOP running a "good" candidate in 2008 (think McCain) instead of these neocons they ran. And the really sad part is that the public won't trust the republicans...any republican (even a good one) because "bush lied".

We have to get through this phase of the war before we can start another.

Yes...and we can only hope that Iran and Korea "play fair" and let us finish up before THEY start something. But...where do we get the manpower should that happen. I'll spell slowly...D-R-A-F-T.

And if Kerry is elected, I wouldn't be too worried about carrying out what we've started, much less going after terrorists abroad. Look at what people like you in his party have done to President Bush, why would he risk the ridicule you people put up just for trying to protect the nation? He'll take the internationally popular road... whatever that might be.

If Kerry is elected, we'll still be in Iraq. We have to. He'll have to try to clean up Bushies mistakes. But Bush portrays himself as "protecting the nation" when he has done nothing to protect ports of entry or chemical plants, or anything else to insure that the homeland isn't attacked. I think Kerry will do more to TRULY protect America. And you know something....the internationally popular road might not be a bad road to try. You fell hook line and sinker for Bush's "global test" talk. Here's the difference...change "global test" to "enlisting international support". There is the difference between Bush and Kerry...Bush thinks that America can just "go it alone". There used to be two superpowers, now there's only one. What part of history tells you that that superpower cannot be toppled? Kerry recognizes that you might not be able to get everybody to help, but you can listen to their concerns, further explain your position, and if there can't be a meeting of the minds, at least the other country doesn't feel like you just told them to buzz off.

No, they're just politicians who are making political moves. Kerry called on them to bring the issue to the floor so he could instill a little fear into the minds of people so they wouldn't vote for Bush. The president has done the same thing with the war on terror, I'll admit. It's all politics.

Can somebody talk some sense into Fly - he won't listen to me.

That's because he is a she. But she has a point...why not make the first kids who are drafted come from familes with Bush/Cheney signs in their front yards. In an all volunteer army, it's easy to show your admiration for the "heros" we sent over there by pasting the yellow ribbon (the new millenium's "Baby on board" sign) on the back of the SUV. But when uncle sam comes a knocking on the door, looking for your 18 year old son or daughter to send over to Iraq, somehow a yellow ribbon seems so....useless. And they might just find themselves questioning their support of this war.

 

[FredF]

KC,

You seem pretty certain about that draft issue but I have a question because I really don't know and maybe you can answer it for me.

Leaving the draft aside for a moment, Kerry has talked about adding two whole divisions to the army as well as doubling the number of people in special forces. Do you have any idea where he plans to get those people from?

 

[delldude]

This sums it up! Seriously

[post="195027"][/post]​

hey babe...if arafat supports kerry you should stop and think.... 🙁

 

[USAir757]

why not make the first kids who are drafted come from familes with Bush/Cheney signs in their front yards. In an all volunteer army, it's easy to show your admiration for the "heros" we sent over there by pasting the yellow ribbon (the new millenium's "Baby on board" sign) on the back of the SUV. But when uncle sam comes a knocking on the door, looking for your 18 year old son or daughter to send over to Iraq, somehow a yellow ribbon seems so....useless. And they might just find themselves questioning their support of this war.

Excellent, we'll do that, and the kids of the people who voted for Kerry... we'll put them in a building to get gassed by terrorists. You make no sense. But sticking up for such a lunatic thing to say - KC, I've definitely lost respect for you.

 

[delldude]

And I'm sure that good old Sean wouldn't dream of pulling a "Michael Moore" and running only the clips that show his point..

only way to find out is tune in and find out for yourself......you aren't that biased are you? i mean that you wouldn't listen to opposing view points...?

 

[FredF]

NWA,

I am actually quite impressed. You managed to take questions about the true character of the man, that would be Kerry, and turn it into a personal vendetta against me and completely igone the issues about Kerry.

Am I quite willing to engage in conversation or debate about what I post here. My problem, that you don't quite seem to get, is that you continually take posts and slice and dice them, pull lines, often out of context and then ask what seems to be rhetorical questions about those individual lines and expect answers.

I don't monitor this board. I check it from time to time, and I am not about to go back through all the pages that can accumulate for your embedded questions just to satisify your ego.

I have continued to post articles to support my position only to have them be referred to as op-ed. A neat trick when you don't like the content. All articles are basically opinion, and yet I try to only use the ones that have factual information. That piece about ben barnes quoted him quite clearly in that he was never approached by Bush or his father, yet you call that one an op-ed piece as well. The notion was stated that Bush sought influence, yet that says that Barnes did it from another source. There were also articles out there, and I beileve I posted a link to them as well, stating that the family friend did it on his own. I am not about to go spend hours searching the net to post links to articles I have posted before only to have you decide that they are opinion and dismiss them or completely ignore them untill the issue comes up again.

I do find it interesting that when I post quesions about the general character of a man the feels he has to lie about little stuff to feel like he is being accepted, that they get ignored or belittled and you turn it into an issue about me.

That is a favorite democratic ploy that has been going on for years, when you cannot challenge the message, attach the messenger.

(waiting for you or someone else to say they learned it from the republicans)

 

[KCFlyer]

Excellent, we'll do that, and the kids of the people who voted for Kerry... we'll put them in a building to get gassed by terrorists. You make no sense. But sticking up for such a lunatic thing to say - KC, I've definitely lost respect for you.

[post="195382"][/post]​

Sorry to hear that. But think about it a minute....if you vote for Bush because you support the war and his handling of it, then that means you and anyone else who believes this war is right and just should have no problem when uncle sam calls by taking your son or daughter down to the local draft board and signing them up. And you should have no problem putting a yellow ribbon on your car to show you support for your kids, who are now over in Iraq fighting the good fight against terrorism. The point I (and I also belive Fly) am trying to make is that it's easy to support a war as long as there isn't any draft and your kids aren't forced to "volunteer" to go over there. In other words...as long as it's someone elses kids facing the danger, it's all hunky-dory. I have an 11 year old daughter. In 6 and a half more years, she's going to be eligible for the draft (which is coming, regardless of who gets elected). And if she's drafted and has to go over to the middle east to fight Bush's war on terror, I will place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the man responsible....George W Bush.

Fred...as I have said several times before, and even in this very post...I think there will be a draft, regardless of who is elected. Yep...Kerry uses the draft to scare voters..he's lying. But so is Bush when he says there won't be a draft...and if you read carefully, he has done a better job covering his bases when he prefaces that with "there have been no plans to reinstitute the draft"....he can always fall back on "well, at the time, there weren't any plans". "We have no plans"...that pretty much sums up Bush's "planning" for this mess in Iraq. Look for a draft no later than the end of 2006 - regardless of which candidate is elected.

 

[KCFlyer]

only way to find out is tune in and find out for yourself......you aren't that biased are you? i mean that you wouldn't listen to opposing view points...?

[post="195384"][/post]​

Oh, I've listened to Hannity. Even when it turned my stomach. And yes....I'm pretty sure that his snippets with that "lib-chick" are just as heavily edited as Micheal Moores movie was. Did you see MIchael Moores movie, or are you one of those who won't see it because the idea of spending your hard earned money to make that liberal lefty richer repulses you?

 

[FredF]

KC,
Thanks.

But see here is where I disagree with a couple points. Some yours, some with Kerry.

First, Kerry's. As I have said, you would think that a US senator would know the laws and know that it takes and act of congress to re-enstate the draft. Kerry is also going around saying that Bush has a plan for the draft yet he himself is the one proposing raising the number of troops on active duty. That seem to me, very duplicitious in the least.

You can't in one breath say that the President has plans for a draft, and in the next say that you want to add two whole divisions to the army. That tends to lead me to believe that he is the one with a plan for a draft. Another typical dem tactic of accuse your enemy of what you are planing to do.

I still don't believe that there will be a draft. First, congress will have to pass the required legislation and I don't see that happening. We have managed with an all volunteer military for a long time and I really don't see that changing.
Second, Even if the draft was signed today, most experts agree that it would still take about two years for it to be in place and start selecting anyone from it. It would not solve any immediate needs.
Third, the quality of the people in the military would diminish dramatically. The people there right now want to be there(ok so maybe a few don't) and they are at least somewhat motivated to do a good job. Addind conscripts would bring down morale, lower training standards, and reduce overall effectiveness.

We are not about to go storming into Korea. I really don' think that that would work so the number of troops needed there is not as many as you might think. There are troops still in europe stationed to protect against a force that no longer exists. By re-positioning those troops and moving some material around, we should be able to continue at the current levels. Maybe some more will be needed, but those can probably come from better enticements and recruiting efforts.

 

[delldude]

Oh, I've listened to Hannity. Even when it turned my stomach. And yes....I'm pretty sure that his snippets with that "lib-chick" are just as heavily edited as Micheal Moores movie was. Did you see MIchael Moores movie, or are you one of those who won't see it because the idea of spending your hard earned money to make that liberal lefty richer repulses you?

[post="195387"][/post]​

i'll see it sooner or later...i don't need to see it to have him make up my mind for me.
and actually i had reservations as to giving him moore money as it looks as though he has an eating disorder and i'd feel terrible if i contributed and he had a heart attack or a stroke...my oh my....don't want that on my shoulders...