Leaked: US and UA in merger talks for over a month

[Travelpro72]

It AAmazes me to this DAAy how very few at AA find what their airline did to TWA employees wrong. It was SO BAD that it can't be done to anyone else per the government. Back to the merger blah blah at hand.

 

[Bulldog63]

It AAmazes me to this DAAy how very few at AA find what their airline did to TWA employees wrong. It was SO BAD that it can't be done to anyone else per the government. Back to the merger blah blah at hand.

To start I don't like what AA does to any of us or our customers. We had no control over what Carty or Arpey does. I also don't like the fact that UA, US, and NW never stood up with a NO vote in the last 6yrs....but hey thats life.

BTW TW went into BK with not enough cash to continue their operation. AA funded TW during the BK process. At that point job or no job? Then of course the economy was on a down swing and 9/11. Also, continuing their careers with TW was a choice each and every one of them had made. I fly with many former TW F/A's that left during the strike or during one of their BK's, they all started at AA with 1st year pay, reserve, and at the bottom of the seniority list. So should they lose seniority because they saw the writing on the wall and made the right choice? I think not. How many HP pilots feel bad about what happened to the US East pilots? I was at EA and no one gave me any seniority when they went out of business. I had to interview, year one pay, reserve, and no seniority. Life is all about choices. I voted NO in 2003 and I decided to stay. It was my choice, I got over it and moved on. No one knows what our futures hold in this business, If it ends tomorrow I move on. That's life. Do I have any guilt about what occurred with AA/TW? No I don't. Do I feel bad that they were furloughed? Yes I did just like I felt bad for all of our F/A's and those at other carriers that were furloughed. No one every said life was fair. I watched the factory at my fathers company be purchased by another company. He came in one Monday and told to clean everything out, his job was being moved, four months shy of when he was to retire. What did the government or his union do for him? Nothing....like I said life is not fair you move on.

 

[Borescope]

It will work out good for the UAL pilots if you merge. Now that you don't belong to ALPA they can staple the East pilots on the bottom.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It will work out good for the UAL pilots if you merge. Now that you don't belong to ALPA they can staple the East pilots on the bottom.

Not per US law. If we belonged to ALPA they could. Getting out of ALPA was the ONLY way to prevent it fro happening (again).

 

[aredeeyou22]

To start I don't like what AA does to any of us or our customers. We had no control over what Carty or Arpey does. I also don't like the fact that UA, US, and NW never stood up with a NO vote in the last 6yrs....but hey thats life.

BTW TW went into BK with not enough cash to continue their operation. AA funded TW during the BK process. At that point job or no job? Then of course the economy was on a down swing and 9/11. Also, continuing their careers with TW was a choice each and every one of them had made. I fly with many former TW F/A's that left during the strike or during one of their BK's, they all started at AA with 1st year pay, reserve, and at the bottom of the seniority list. So should they lose seniority because they saw the writing on the wall and made the right choice? I think not. How many HP pilots feel bad about what happened to the US East pilots? I was at EA and no one gave me any seniority when they went out of business. I had to interview, year one pay, reserve, and no seniority. Life is all about choices. I voted NO in 2003 and I decided to stay. It was my choice, I got over it and moved on. No one knows what our futures hold in this business, If it ends tomorrow I move on. That's life. Do I have any guilt about what occurred with AA/TW? No I don't. Do I feel bad that they were furloughed? Yes I did just like I felt bad for all of our F/A's and those at other carriers that were furloughed. No one every said life was fair. I watched the factory at my fathers company be purchased by another company. He came in one Monday and told to clean everything out, his job was being moved, four months shy of when he was to retire. What did the government or his union do for him? Nothing....like I said life is not fair you move on.

Right. Whatever helps you sleep at night, keep tellin' yourself that.... K, back on topic, sorry.....

 

[roabilly]

Stand strong...be ready foe a whirlwind of activity !

 

[767jetz]

Not per US law. If we belonged to ALPA they could. Getting out of ALPA was the ONLY way to prevent it fro happening (again).

Are you forgetting that according to your USAPA lawyers, seniority can be negotiated in a contract? All you need is a majority vote, right?

So IF UA were to purchase USAirways (which it won't, but for this discussion we'll go with it...) , under your rules it really doesn't matter what you get via "US law." Heck, you can have DOH. We will just negotiate a contract that brings the AWA pilots back where they belong based on the Nicolau award, and staple you guys into your narrow body airplanes FOREVER. Of course the handful of A330 guys would be free to stay there as well. We'd make sure of that through fences with restrictions ala USAPA.

Any doubt in your mind that UAL pilots wouldn't use you own rules against you? Any doubt what-so-ever that in that scenario we would have a clear majority of over 3 to 1?

 

[jimntx]

Not per US law. If we belonged to ALPA they could. Getting out of ALPA was the ONLY way to prevent it fro happening (again).

This makes the second time today that someone has posted an implication that Federal law prohibits stapling one unionized group below another. The law prohibits no such thing. The law you are evidently referring to simply requires that the two groups negotiate in good faith, and if they are unable to reach an accord, they are subject to binding arbitration. However, there is nothing in the law that prevents the arbitrator from stapling one group below the other. Granted, such an outcome would be highly unlikely, but it is not prohibited.

 

[WCT]

This makes the second time today that someone has posted an implication that Federal law prohibits stapling one unionized group below another. The law prohibits no such thing. The law you are evidently referring to simply requires that the two groups negotiate in good faith, and if they are unable to reach an accord, they are subject to binding arbitration. However, there is nothing in the law that prevents the arbitrator from stapling one group below the other. Granted, such an outcome would be highly unlikely, but it is not prohibited.

My lord. Could you imagine if AA takes over US!?? Oh my. Stapling no more, TWA folks going crazy??

Just think of all the airlines, or OLD, you will have to deal with...PSA, Piedmont, Alleghany, US Air, America West, TWA, Reno?? Oh man, just think of the attitude!? Seniority rules. AFA really up for the challenge?!! Oh my.. Dougie going home to DFW??! What a mess. But, just think we will finally be the true American airline!! Whoohoo!!

 

[jimntx]

In exactly what way does your response have ANYTHING to do with what I posted? I didn't say a word about LCC merging with AA. As a matter of fact, I am a nAAtive who thinks that the TW folk were not treated fairly. And, merging with LCC is the LAST thing I want to happen to AA. I would like to have an airline to go work for for the next 4 years. I was simply pointing out that people keep repeating that Congress prevented stapling in the future. They did no such thing.

 

[sharktooth]

Are you forgetting that according to your USAPA lawyers, seniority can be negotiated in a contract? All you need is a majority vote, right?

So IF UA were to purchase USAirways (which it won't, but for this discussion we'll go with it...) , under your rules it really doesn't matter what you get via "US law." Heck, you can have DOH. We will just negotiate a contract that brings the AWA pilots back where they belong based on the Nicolau award, and staple you guys into your narrow body airplanes FOREVER. Of course the handful of A330 guys would be free to stay there as well. We'd make sure of that through fences with restrictions ala USAPA.

Any doubt in your mind that UAL pilots wouldn't use you own rules against you? Any doubt what-so-ever that in that scenario we would have a clear majority of over 3 to 1?

I believe your quote is taken out of context. The lawyers are referring to "merger" negotiations vs "Section 6" negotiations.

Also, once a "list" is accepted by a group, as long as that group remains intact, so does the list. The only group that apparently can "diddle" with an accepted list is an arbitrator (Kagel asking that the PI group reassign the Empire pilots to conform with the PI request for "slotting" with USAir, way back when and was it an arbitrator who "ordered" the re-ordering of the UAL list to place the potential "strikebreakers" to a DOH position?).

Your implication that an accepted list can be re-ordered at whim seems to be ignoring precedent.

 

[WCT]

In exactly what way does your response have ANYTHING to do with what I posted? I didn't say a word about LCC merging with AA. As a matter of fact, I am a nAAtive who thinks that the TW folk were not treated fairly. And, merging with LCC is the LAST thing I want to happen to AA. I would like to have an airline to go work for for the next 4 years. I was simply pointing out that people keep repeating that Congress prevented stapling in the future. They did no such thing.

Gee, thanks a lot. 4 years is all you will give US??! Hmmm. Maybe we will become nAAtives before you know it! I know I am an AmericA WesT naTive at US Airways!!!

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP> Alleghany

Just so yinz know, it’s Allegheny.

You must be from American West, LOL.

 

[jimntx]

Gee, thanks a lot. 4 years is all you will give US??! Hmmm. Maybe we will become nAAtives before you know it! I know I am an AmericA WesT naTive at US Airways!!!

Where did I give US only 4 years? You read in what you THINK I think rather that reading what I posted. I said I want AA to be around for 4 more years; so, I can retire with travel benefits. I don't think AA is in any position to merge with anyone right now, but especially not LCC with all the problems that you still have not solved from your last merger.

 

[WCT]

Just so yinz know, it’s Allegheny.

You must be from American West, LOL.

I am so sorry, you bet I am from the good ole American West!! America West, Frontier, Western, and PSA?? Weren't those some darn good airlines at one time!!? yipee!!