Leaked: US and UA in merger talks for over a month

[FWAAA]

So well said. If AA took widebodies off of domestic flying like CO and DL did, they could double their operation over night. AA does everything right, including stapling their TWA flying partners to the bottom and treating them like dirt.

AA is so great and so untouchable, yet has more debt than any other airline and has larger losses. What comes around goes around, and I think AA is about to receive its just desserts. A bAAnkrutpcy and contract gouging would do well to taper and humble the AArogance. The US employees are not fooled by management rhetoric and are not drunk on company kool-AAid. When AA files bAAnkruptcy and US makes a hostile takeover bid and this one goes through, I will laugh and laugh. And, the people at US would welcome their AA flying partners with open arms and DOH seniority.

Wow. So much anger. Anger at an article that accurately depicts USAir's international ops as miniscule and then anger when someone else posts evidence to back up the article's claim.

Here's some more evidence. In 2007, AA flew 2.5 times as many transatlantic ASMs as US. Same with Revenue passenger miles. Two and a half times larger at AA. AA's 2007 international ASMs were almost as large as the entire US systemwide ASMs.

Here's the evidence. See for yourself:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...&highlight=

https://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressRel...aatraffic.jhtml

Your comment about AA having extensive domestic widebody ops is inaccurate. As someone else pointed out, AA runs 15 old 762s (not counted in the fleet numbers I posted previously) on domestic transcons. Other than a few 763s to Hawaii and A300s to SJU and MIA, plus a few 763 and 777 domestic tag segments (used to increase fleet utilization), AA doesn't have the widebody domestic ops that DL used to have.

Again, I'm sorry you're so angry. Understandable, of course, given your employer. Lotsa people at US are very angry.

 

[aredeeyou22]

Wow. So much anger.

Again, I'm sorry you're so angry. Understandable, of course, given your employer. Lotsa people at US are very angry.

An AA employee coming over here and telling us that we're angry. That's rich.

Read your own board lately?


:mf_boff:

 

[deltawatch]

Changing the subject back to United ..... S&P revises outlooks for Continental, United Airlines to 'Negative'

United Air Lines faces a "sizable" loss and declining cash flow this year, like the rest of its peers. Its parent UAL Corp. also saw its rating outlook reduced.

The carrier is planning further domestic capacity reductions and cost-cuts, S&P noted, but the scale of expected fuel price increases will far offset any benefit.

Additionally, United is one of the top business carriers, making it more vulnerable to corporate layoffs and cost-cutting.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080418/s_p_airlines.html?.v=1

 

[gaucho99]

Does UA want to merge with CO or US? If CO, why were they talking with US? IMHO they want to merge with CO but my gut feeling is CO is reluctant to do so. They don't want to take on the problems UA will bring them. I think CO is hoping to go it alone or find someone else to hook up with and UA might have to take US as a consolation prize because they do not want to stay solo.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

This would appear to be the end of ANOTHER misguided UAL/US merger thread.

 

[chucky]

Doug could wait until AMR files bankruptcy later this year, then try a takeover attempt on them.

 

[Ignacio]

This would appear to be the end of ANOTHER misguided UAL/US merger thread.

I doubt any of the Legacies are going to merge together. Including Delta/Northwest.

Delta/Northwest are basically keeping everything from both airlines, as they say. Both Delta and Northwest are losing money. Mergering together is not going to magically make them profitable... Unless they decide to cut a few offices, management positions and hubs. Which I thought that was the whole point of merging...

A bigger airline = bigger debts. And during a horrible economy and credit crunch, you do not want high debts...


I just want to know how Delta/Northwest expects to cut cost by keeping everything of both Northwest and Delta Airlines.

 

[Rico]

I'm with the person that mentioned the three way idea.

Because it would obviously be the most difficult to get approved, and then manage afterward. Lord knows that logic has not gotten in the way before, why should it now...?

Plus it has the added plus of major portions of each carrier being spun off, dropped, or turned upside down. Just the kind of threat to the livelihoods of thousands and thousands of employees that no one really considers when they broker deals like these.

Afterall, you cannot have a Merger without the word "ME".

 

[Tiger 1050]

Are you forgetting that according to your USAPA lawyers, seniority can be negotiated in a contract? All you need is a majority vote, right?

So IF UA were to purchase USAirways (which it won't, but for this discussion we'll go with it...) , under your rules it really doesn't matter what you get via "US law." Heck, you can have DOH. We will just negotiate a contract that brings the AWA pilots back where they belong based on the Nicolau award, and staple you guys into your narrow body airplanes FOREVER. Of course the handful of A330 guys would be free to stay there as well. We'd make sure of that through fences with restrictions ala USAPA.

Any doubt in your mind that UAL pilots wouldn't use you own rules against you? Any doubt what-so-ever that in that scenario we would have a clear majority of over 3 to 1?

Right on 767!!!! This is exactly my thoughts as well. Heck I don't care anymore what it says on the side of my airplane as long as I have the opportunity to watch these yahoo's step on their cranks...

 

[USA320Pilot]

J.P. Morgan Invetment Report - April 21, 2008

U.S. Airlines : United-US Airways: 3rd Time's The Charm?

Reports that United & US Airways continue to discuss a potential merger did not generate a single investor inquiry for us. Meanwhile, the furious speculation surrounding Continental-United continues. While we are steadfast in our view that the value of consolidation is best measured by the savings from flying less, we actually see considerable merit to a United-US Airways combination, including the removal of uncertainty as to whether United’s team would cede the level of control we believe Continental would insist upon.

Pilot Perspective – DAL had to purchase its pilot waiver in order to proceed, through a combination of wage and equity. CAL & UAUA have disparate wage structures with no existing code-share flexibility, suggesting requisite permissions may prove expensive. But UAUA & LCC contracts require no such waivers, and wages are already closely aligned. We envision no wage bump or equity, though longer-term labor cost advantages are unsustainable.

Fleet Perspective – DAL-NWA have disparate fleets, with similar Airbus/Boeing conflicts at CAL-UAUA. But save for 9 A330s, LCC doesn’t fly a single type UAUA doesn't (though engines are not perfectly aligned).

Capacity Perspective – LCC is beholden to a minimum fleet size of 322, about 20 fewer than today. But we estimate UAUA could shrink close to 15% (independent of M&A) before hitting EBIT-adjusted flying minimums. And both managements have proven aggressive when it comes to cuts, whereas Continental has been a laggard in this regard.

Alliance Perspective – UAUA-LCC doesn't rock the alliance boat. And we continue to cling to the unpopular belief that continued SkyTeam allegiance could prove a source of incremental liquidity for Continental.

Regulatory Perspective – Concentration at DCA could prove problematic. But our Principle of Consolidation Number Eight has long been the involvement of AirTran or JetBlue in hopes of currying regulatory favor and perhaps contributing capital.

Third Time’s The Charm? United was interested in America West in 1998, US Air in 2000. Today, both are available under one roof.

Finally, What’s Best for United? While we’ve criticized certain United policies in the past (its dividend, for example), there’s no doubt in our minds that United prioritizes owners over its other constituents to a greater degree than most in the industry. And this is how it should be, in our view. Rather than structure a deal that potentially affords disproportionate benefit for CAL shareholders, United management may instead place greater emphasis on an LCC transaction, given its highly depressed share price.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Low&away]

Bob Crandell's take CNBC. http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=717886142

 

[wings396]

Bob has been blowing smoke for years now. Since he is such an expert, maybe AA should pull him out of retirement to fix some of their issues. :blink:

 

[IronWalt]

Bob has been blowing smoke for years now. Since he is such an expert, maybe AA should pull him out of retirement to fix some of their issues. :blink:

Yes and Bob is the man who could DEFINATLY fix a lot of the problems that they have. He did it before and a repeat performance would be nice to see.

 

[PhxMama]

Heard today that UA/US merger will be announced on Friday. Strictly rumour. Anyone else hear anything? Just checking! Mama

 

[AlleghenyVista]

Yup. I have head the same thing as well. God help all of us. UA just posted more than a half billion dollar loss. This isnt gonna be pretty if true.