Layoffs in PHX

[WeAAsles]

Nope. But if you talk to Bob Owens, he says we did indirectly...Maybe he can explain it. Anything I voted on was for Fleet. Didn't mention mechanic and related. Didn't say I will take anything from them. And I (as fleet) did not decide their pay.
 
But if you listen to some of these guys, fleet ruined their lives! And I always thought I was the coattail rider. Now it seems I was calling the shots and they were hanging on.

It seems like they're always alluding to there being some type of collusion against them that I never really feel like I get a straight answer on?

I'd like to know if they honestly have a leg to stand on with their hypothesis?

 

[MetalMover]

It seems like they're always alluding to there being some type of collusion against them that I never really feel like I get a straight answer on?

I'd like to know if they honestly have a leg to stand on with their hypothesis?

I've tried numerous times to give you an answer, but you either do not want to believe it or can't believe it.
In the good old days before mechanics separated, we all voted as one. We all saw what the other work group was getting. We all got the same percentage raises. So if the mechanics were to get a larger increase in license pay, other work groups might consider that unfair as the mechanics would be getting more. So the majority had the ability to shoot the entire contract down simply on that issue alone. 
Now comes 1983, when mechanics started their journey into losing work to either fleet service or even outsourcing, we did not have the majority votes to stop it. So your fleet service forefathers said "HEY WE CAN DO THOSE MECHANIC JOBS DEICING AND RECEIVING AND DISPATCH, FUELING,,ETC." Those good fleet service union brothers and sisters had no regard for the mechanics' losses. 
So WeAAsles, do you see how this played out? We had no mechanics as local presidents or really any local board level officials to represent us. But yet people like you accuse mechanics of blaming others for our predicament. 
I recall in the 70''s what the pay difference was between a topped out fleet service and a topped out mechanic...Do you want to know how much?  $1.50.......$1.00 for BOTH licenses and $.50 for wage rate....
 
Next on the TWU's agenda was to pit TUL OH against the line to ensure their control would endure. You dismiss this as either a lie or just plain good old fashioned BS, but this is the way it is. When the line mechanics complain about it,  
people like you accuse us of simply blaming others for our predicament. The famous TULE ROLL CALL vote is no longer the nuclear option. All of a sudden T-town doesn't think roll call is such a good idea anymore. 
And the reality is that we got our own locals because of the AMFA threat..Why would the TWU do otherwise? 
So you're asking if any of us have leg to stand on regarding the treatment of AA mechanics by the TWU? I've given you the simplest explanation I can give.

 

[MetalMover]

Dave, what I thinking is the they will increase our scope to include working side by side with AMT to do "A" checks and have them sign off our work as required by the FAA, and reduce the AMT headcount by two thirds. This way you keep it in house and save millions. And yes we can do this work
Or maybe give the mechanics a nice raise and we can do YOUR job and get rid of you!  Sound good?  Increase YOUR scope? You want ME to sign off YOUR work?
​Be careful BOB, they will be drug testing you.
CFR Title 14 Chapter I Subchapter C Part 43.3 (d)
 
(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.
 
Because we work cheap. 
 
It is better to embrace the reality of the future of the AMT, and the ones that perform heavy. I think within a 5 year time, all of the overall maint will be done just like all the other airlines.  And what exactly is that?

 

[WeAAsles]

I've tried numerous times to give you an answer, but you either do not want to believe it or can't believe it.
 
In the good old days before mechanics separated, we all voted as one. We all saw what the other work group was getting. We all got the same percentage raises. So if the mechanics were to get a larger increase in license pay, other work groups might consider that unfair as the mechanics would be getting more. So the majority had the ability to shoot the entire contract down simply on that issue alone. 
 
Now comes 1983, when mechanics started their journey into losing work to either fleet service or even outsourcing, we did not have the majority votes to stop it. So your fleet service forefathers said "HEY WE CAN DO THOSE MECHANIC JOBS DEICING AND RECEIVING AND DISPATCH, FUELING,,ETC." Those good fleet service union brothers and sisters had no regard for the mechanics' losses.
 
So WeAAsles, do you see how this played out? We had no mechanics as local presidents or really any local board level officials to represent us. But yet people like you accuse mechanics of blaming others for our predicament.
 
I recall in the 70''s what the pay difference was between a topped out fleet service and a topped out mechanic...Do you want to know how much?  $1.50.......$1.00 for BOTH licenses and $.50 for wage rate....
 
Next on the TWU's agenda was to pit TUL OH against the line to ensure their control would endure. You dismiss this as either a lie or just plain good old fashioned BS, but this is the way it is. When the line mechanics complain about it, people like you accuse us of simply blaming others for our predicament.

The famous TULE ROLL CALL vote is no longer the nuclear option. All of a sudden T-town doesn't think roll call is such a good idea anymore. And the reality is that we got our own locals because of the AMFA threat..Why would the TWU do otherwise?
 
So you're asking if any of us have leg to stand on regarding the treatment of AA mechanics by the TWU? I've given you the simplest explanation I can give.

Thank you Metal. I appreciate what I believe is a very honest assessment from you about the story before I hired on. I separated and highlighted your story so it's easier to read. And red marked the very interesting piece you put up.

If we have any clerks that are on here that go back all the way to 1983 I'd love to hear what they have to say? Again I'd also like the opinions of Overspeed and Realityck to let me know what they think?

 

[WeAAsles]

MetalMover how long have you been with AA?

 

[MetalMover]

Thank you Metal. I appreciate what I believe is a very honest assessment from you about the story before I hired on. I separated and highlighted your story so it's easier to read. And red marked the very interesting piece you put up.

If we have any clerks that are on here that go back all the way to 1983 I'd love to hear what they have to say? Again I'd also like the opinions of Overspeed and Realityck to let me know what they think?

WeAAsles, I started in this business in the early 70's ( yes i am very close to retirement). Believe it or not, none of us complained much about making $.50 per  license. Working for an airline in those days was something to be envious of. The $.50 wage rate difference between fleet and maintenance was prevalent at the other legacy carriers as well. It was just the way it was. This was before deregulation.  There was no pitting one group against another and no animosity.  But the TWU started the trend of "divide and conquer" between work groups. They sided with the company more often than not because it benefited them more than the members. The TWU had taken it to new levels. 
Personally I feel no ill will towards any other work group as we are ALL important to the airline. But the reality is some have more responsibility than others. We feel we should be compensated accordingly. As for us at AA, we have found ourselves at the bottom and do blame the TWU mostly for it. You may not agree with it, but being in this business for 40 years, I personally have felt the wrath of TWU actions and inactions.

 

[Vortilon]

Thank you Metal. I appreciate what I believe is a very honest assessment from you about the story before I hired on. I separated and highlighted your story so it's easier to read. And red marked the very interesting piece you put up.

If we have any clerks that are on here that go back all the way to 1983 I'd love to hear what they have to say? Again I'd also like the opinions of Overspeed and Realityck to let me know what they think?

 
Overspeed & Realtycheck? sounds like a bad sitcom.  Why not the Ed K & Don V show?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Overspeed & Realtycheck? sounds like a bad sitcom.  Why not the Ed K & Don V show?

I ask them because from you these are the types of responses I expect. That's why I didn't ask you.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles, I started in this business in the early 70's ( yes i am very close to retirement). Believe it or not, none of us complained much about making $.50 per  license. Working for an airline in those days was something to be envious of. The $.50 wage rate difference between fleet and maintenance was prevalent at the other legacy carriers as well. It was just the way it was. This was before deregulation.  There was no pitting one group against another and no animosity.

Ok WOW. Early 70's. I was born in 1965. My friend's father retired from AA in 78. I remember going over to his house as a kid and he had a credenza full of AA items. I know he was very proud that he had worked for them. I have a Ford Tri Motor on my bed mantle because I want to have some pride in the history of AA. I'm not a fan of what it became as a cold corporation though. I think there was probably more of a family type atmosphere back when you started.
 

But the TWU started the trend of "divide and conquer" between work groups. They sided with the company more often than not because it benefited them more than the members. The TWU had taken it to new levels. 
 

When would you say that happened and why? I have my opinion from September 11 2001 on but I think you've already heard me talk about that enough to not have to rehash it.

Do you have any faith at all that maybe the new leadership will have more of your concerns on their minds? They have gone around the system to maintenance bases even after they got clobbered from what I heard. I really think they're trying?
 

Personally I feel no ill will towards any other work group as we are ALL important to the airline. But the reality is some have more responsibility than others. We feel we should be compensated accordingly. As for us at AA, we have found ourselves at the bottom and do blame the TWU mostly for it. You may not agree with it, but being in this business for 40 years, I personally have felt the wrath of TWU actions and inactions.

Nice comment. I have no ill will towards you guys either. Even if it seems that way because I go after a few guys on here. It's about them 100% and not the group they keep selling. I can't speak at all against your 40 years. I didn't even go to my first Union meeting until after 9/11. I knew the Union was there if I needed them but I just came to work, did what I needed to do and went home. All the things that have happened to us over the years is why I got involved. (Obviously I appreciate being in a Union now very much)

On compensation I absolutely do feel you are underpaid. I think you guys should be making near $50.00 per hour now (I think I should be at $30.00) But I also can't ignore everything that happened since deregulation. Even you mentioned deregulation so you know things were much better before that was signed into law.

 

[700UW]

Can someone explain how someone who isnt in the class and craft can vote on your CBA?
 
In my 20 years at PI/US never heard of that in my life, and we were in a local with fleet.

 

[swamt]

I ask them because from you these are the types of responses I expect. That's why I didn't ask you.

You value what these two say or post?  Really?  You have GOT to be kidding?  Never mind, it actually speaks volumes, WOW...

 

[swamt]

Can someone explain how someone who isnt in the class and craft can vote on your CBA?
 
In my 20 years at PI/US never heard of that in my life, and we were in a local with fleet.

This is why we removed the cleaners from our contract at SWA, it has and maybe still does happen...

 

[700UW]

Cleaners are in the same class and craft as a mechanic, fleet isn't in the same class and craft.

 

[john john]

I've tried numerous times to give you an answer, but you either do not want to believe it or can't believe it.
In the good old days before mechanics separated, we all voted as one.

So fleet service clerks and mechanics use to be under the same contract ?
Voted on as one contract no separation.

 

[700UW]

They aren't in the same class and craft, never seen it happen.