Lay down your burden

[as the prop turns]

Listen to Philly Rocks, they know. All must vote NO on this contract.

 

[flybynite]

Was this T/A recommended by your union or was it just dropped in everyone's lap because they are really still at an impasse?

The company threw a T/A at the f/a's (on the east) several years ago (prior 9-11)because they were at an impasse and it was voted out....they went back to the table and hammered out a far better deal.

Well this is post 9-11 and the company is making money hand over fist and if I were you I would not accept a concessionary T/A. Just my opinion. Vote your heart.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Freedom,

You have said how and why you agree with contract proposal. I know that you believe that we should all stick together being fellow union members. How can we stick together when we aren't treated the same by the iam? In any union shop it is supposed to be one for all, and all for one. That isn't how it is with the iam. The first thing that should have been on the agenda is seniority. It hasn't even been addressed. There is another merger somewhere on the horizon. If seniority isn't addressed now, be prepared to get the shaft when the next merger comes down the pike. If it is with united, we are in real trouble. Why do I say that? Because right now we have three different seniority systems. Hire date for those hired before 1980. Adjusted date by those hired between 1980 and 1996. Hire date again for those hired after 1996. When hp comes into the scenario, who know what seniority you'll be bringing with you, or where you will be placed.

Your seniority decides your pay rate, bidding vacations and shifts, how much sick time you earn, order of layoff and recall, how much is put into your pension fund, nonrev boarding, and who gets the OT first. We all have to start the game on a level playing field. With so many different seniority dates, the field is not level. Some are winners while some get the shaft. No employee hired after another employee should bid anything before an employee that is senior to them. But that is what happens day in and day out under the seniority systems we have today. Do you want to be a part of that? I would think not. Once the seniority playing field is leveled, everything else will slowly work itself out. Remember, if we don't change to DOH now, in the event of another merger we will really get the shaft.

 

[philly rocks]

FLYBYNITE, you said it in a nutshell. The company is sitting on egg shells because they don't want to go back to the table. CIC is looming and they want it out of the picture. THEY will do anything and give anything back to drop the CIC. Impasse is where we are right now. You all have the opportunity to re open this TA and get something respectful.

 

[isthisok]

As I read through the TA, sift through all the topics on this forum, and converse with the co-workers at my station, it really seems that this proposal will get voted down. I am in a West Coast Field Station and I have endured the negotiating B.S. for long enough myself. YES...I do want a raise and job security, two things that would cause an immediate "yes" vote...but looking at the bigger picture, what sacrifices are made to get these 2 items. Sure the base pay goes up, but the COST of nearly everything goes up, too...it becomes a wash. I don't wish to cast a vote in response to "getting a raise" as many may do just to end this negotiating b.s. I really think the union can do better and, of course, the company is throwing its low-ball offer out as bait to see if the uninformed will swing the vote and put them right in the drivers seat with our work group. I am not trying to discount the efforts put in by the negotiating team, however, this T.A. leaves a lot to be desired. I guess we can speculate as much as we want, but we shall see when the votes are tallied.

I have to apologize to the field stations. I thought that it was a concrete yes. I am glad that there are those that can see through the smoke and mirrors. Please spread your insight around and there is still hope for us. Good luck to all the field stations. Vote No!

 

[freedom]

Freedom,

You have said how and why you agree with contract proposal. I know that you believe that we should all stick together being fellow union members. How can we stick together when we aren't treated the same by the iam? In any union shop it is supposed to be one for all, and all for one. That isn't how it is with the iam. The first thing that should have been on the agenda is seniority. It hasn't even been addressed. There is another merger somewhere on the horizon. If seniority isn't addressed now, be prepared to get the shaft when the next merger comes down the pike. If it is with united, we are in real trouble. Why do I say that? Because right now we have three different seniority systems. Hire date for those hired before 1980. Adjusted date by those hired between 1980 and 1996. Hire date again for those hired after 1996. When hp comes into the scenario, who know what seniority you'll be bringing with you, or where you will be placed.

Your seniority decides your pay rate, bidding vacations and shifts, how much sick time you earn, order of layoff and recall, how much is put into your pension fund, nonrev boarding, and who gets the OT first. We all have to start the game on a level playing field. With so many different seniority dates, the field is not level. Some are winners while some get the shaft. No employee hired after another employee should bid anything before an employee that is senior to them. But that is what happens day in and day out under the seniority systems we have today. Do you want to be a part of that? I would think not. Once the seniority playing field is leveled, everything else will slowly work itself out. Remember, if we don't change to DOH now, in the event of another merger we will really get the shaft.

When i say or imply stick together i only mean that we should make sure that any contract we sign treats everyone in a fair manner ..

and yes i do realise that we in the west are giving up

profit sharing\

6 paid holidays

clothing allotment

sick days

company paid health care .

and so yes like jim said everyone should read the terms of this new agreement .It's going to benfit some to a great to degree and others to a lessor degree.

 

[allstrike]

The Elder Rampers in PHL are a solid this sucks Im voting No.They are working on getting the young uns to the poll's....lol

 

[diogenes]

I would advise all employees to get their hands on the 1999 FSA agreement - the language in this t/a and that contract tracks. Now - look at what happened to east field stations. Look at what happened to pay scales, benefits, etc.

Y'all are being set up. Keep in mind, mechs are negotiating too, and at IAM, fleet agents are bargaining chips for mechs.

Also keep in mind this offer is far below the industry average. I understand US can't afford top pay, but they could approximate the average. Why don't they? Because the know IAM will sell you out - they've done it before.

Given the lack of substance in this t/a, I'd have to make the company go into arbitration. If you win, snapbacks. If you lose, you've still got this. It'd be mighty hard for the company to claim a contract that is good today is not good three months from now. They want it to run thru 2011, right?

And freedom, words live forever on the internet. I'd recommend a good crow recipe, circa 2009 - 2010.

 

[jim425]

With this new contract no one loses .

So here we now sit , a splintered union striving to return to what we once were before the 2001 terrorist attacks that devastated the airline industry .Our brothers on the east have endured an unheard of TWO bankruptcies to keep their company alive , and we on the west have worked for YEARS at sub par wages going just a little longer to see the job through .

We have now crossed the threshold and In terms of strategic thinking This contract is a watershed . What our negotiators have done is take nothing less than three distinct work groups , merged them together as one and given each group a pay raise without taking away anything of significant importance to any particular group .

We have lost profit sharing … Tell me , how many of you before you read this contract had enough faith in this company and it’s leadership to assume that we were going to get profit sharing for the next 4 years ? While profit sharing was nice , no one would be crying about giving it away right now if we hadn’t made profit this last quarter .A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush , and if our JNC had to give it back to the company in order to get our pay raises so be it ..

When it comes to our future we shouldn’t gamble . I like many in this world would rather take a sure thing over chance any day of the week . I’m speaking about the east’s arbitration award outcome . Now that this company ‘s offer has been presented to our membership we are in a unique position . People have said that we need to use the possibility of a favorable court ruling in order to secure a better contract , well we’ve just done that ladies and gentlemen . If we now go to arbitration and LOSE the company will in all likely hood take something from this contract OFF the table . In my mind winning would have been unlikely because how many judges do we have sitting on the benches these days that take the WORKERS side ? I urge all of you to take a moment and remember the POLTICAL situation of our country , and that the disposition for the last many years has not been toward protecting or compensating the worker, Especially the blue collar worker .
Even IF we had won , the first thing this company would have done was inform it’s lawyers to start an appeal and tell them to push it as far ahead into the future as possible ,The next thing the company would then do is tell it’s negotiators to work even slower than before at any new contract agreement , constantly citing the fact that arbitration was in lieu . Do you know what the West side fleet workers would then do at this point ? Demand section 6 and the ability to strike , but unfortunately for them the EAST side fleet workers wouldn’t be interested in hearing of such a thing because now that they had won a court case they would all seek to hang on as long as humanly possible for that day in which they might get their “back pay†checks . They would tell us to “be patient†and to suck it up for the union , knowing full well that while our union stalls the west workers would continue on for years at sub par wages and that in the event of a final court victory that NO west worker would EVER receive any profit ,check or gain from such a victory .
In my view it’s better that we are divested of such a possible future outcome because this would have bitterly divided us for years to come .

I want to take moment to remind all of you why this is a GOOD contract and not a BAD contract , it’s good because it UNITES us as never before . After we pass this contract there will be no west workers , there will be no station two workers and there will be no east station one workers , there will only be US .While it’s hard for each of us to see this as a huge plus from our own different self interests, it’s awe inspiring for the next time talks come around . Do you realize that our negotiators have had to bargain with a company that has probably come back with a response of “ well we’re giving your west workers and your station two workers a raise , why should we give the east workers one as well! Do you know how much money we’re spending ??†We cry because our sick pay is at 50% but would you rather we get it at 100 % yet our east workers in the class ONE stations get a negligible raise ? We are all getting those two things which are the most important to any worker , job SECURITY AND PAY .

I now want to speak to the matter of time , I talked about arbitration before , and as you all know in any event it would have taken a lot of time , but we should also be mindful that it will take further time for this company and our union to put together a new contract for us to vote on . To my west brothers and sisters and to a large part the east station two workers , how much longer do you want to go on getting paid crap ? I mean honestly , we complain about portions of this contract , but we are going to get what we want ,MONEY baby ,lots and lots of money … Do any of you really want to delay this contract any further? Shall we push back the end result another year only to make an extra 30 cents at each pay level ? Because that’s about what it would amount too , remember that in order for us to even GET this contract proposal we had to have outside mediation to help us . Some say we need to push this company , push it hard ! Well who among you feels like striking eh ? I have the feeling that we talk tough , but when push comes to shove it would dismaying to see how many would cross the picket line , and do you want to know what the response would be of those who would cross “ I have to feed my family “ . A strike with the west workers would never have succeeded because they never would have had the economic means to hold out .Furthermore if any of you have been paying attention to business news you’d see that it appears we are heading into another recession , Striking workers are easily replaced during economic downturns .

We don’t have what the East had before 9/11 , but then most major airlines don’t either .So calm down , take a breath and remember why you chose a job in the aviation industry . Enjoy a few days off and go somewhere , then tell all of your friends who don’t have airline jobs how great it feels to just “fly “ . To my east station one workers , I want to speak directly to you now , I know you’ve lost a lot through these two bankruptcies and that since the merger the hope of not only going back to the pre bankruptcy wages but also getting back pay has kept you going . That’s a hope that’s hard to let go of , I know if it were me I’d want to hold onto what could be my “ticket “ to the very end , at least emotionally I’d want to do so . But you need to think about yourselves for a moment , I mean think about what’s going to be best for you and your families long term health .Is the stress of the arbitration case REALLY worth it ? Watching it getting battered around in court for years and then maybe losing and thinking to yourself what could have been ? What do you think would be best for you, long term right now ? Waiting to see which way the case might go , or accepting an offer that has considerable advantages for you right now ? Your gonna get more money , that means more food for your family and more dough in your pocket , that sounds like a good deal to me . In fact , in many ways , what your now faced with is a lot of like the game show DEAL OR NO DEAL , if you haven’t watched it , take a moment and check it out (it’s got some hot models! Oh yeah!) . Are you going to walk away with the 300,000 or the 1 cent ? It’s up to you .
Finally if I’ve read this contract right it does something that I think needs to be done ASAP , it rights a tremendous wrong , a sin of one union brother against another . With this contract we can finally recall our union brothers that we expelled ,home with their pay and seniority at the time they were cast away .It is time to pass this contract and wipe away this horrid sixty day rule . Take a moment to Remember your friends that are no longer here .

I cant’ see what’s coming , and neither can anyone else , but we can plan using the information that we have at hand .Our boy doug LOVES to merge , so who knows , maybe this time next year we will be calling ourselves united instead of US AIRWAYS .. I don’t know about most of you , but I’m now tired of fighting the good fight , for me this offer is now a chance , a chance for me to lay down my burden , won’t you ?



Your union brother
Freedom

 

[jim425]

With this new contract no one loses .

So here we now sit , a splintered union striving to return to what we once were before the 2001 terrorist attacks that devastated the airline industry .Our brothers on the east have endured an unheard of TWO bankruptcies to keep their company alive , and we on the west have worked for YEARS at sub par wages going just a little longer to see the job through .

We have now crossed the threshold and In terms of strategic thinking This contract is a watershed . What our negotiators have done is take nothing less than three distinct work groups , merged them together as one and given each group a pay raise without taking away anything of significant importance to any particular group .

We have lost profit sharing … Tell me , how many of you before you read this contract had enough faith in this company and it’s leadership to assume that we were going to get profit sharing for the next 4 years ? While profit sharing was nice , no one would be crying about giving it away right now if we hadn’t made profit this last quarter .A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush , and if our JNC had to give it back to the company in order to get our pay raises so be it ..

When it comes to our future we shouldn’t gamble . I like many in this world would rather take a sure thing over chance any day of the week . I’m speaking about the east’s arbitration award outcome . Now that this company ‘s offer has been presented to our membership we are in a unique position . People have said that we need to use the possibility of a favorable court ruling in order to secure a better contract , well we’ve just done that ladies and gentlemen . If we now go to arbitration and LOSE the company will in all likely hood take something from this contract OFF the table . In my mind winning would have been unlikely because how many judges do we have sitting on the benches these days that take the WORKERS side ? I urge all of you to take a moment and remember the POLTICAL situation of our country , and that the disposition for the last many years has not been toward protecting or compensating the worker, Especially the blue collar worker .
Even IF we had won , the first thing this company would have done was inform it’s lawyers to start an appeal and tell them to push it as far ahead into the future as possible ,The next thing the company would then do is tell it’s negotiators to work even slower than before at any new contract agreement , constantly citing the fact that arbitration was in lieu . Do you know what the West side fleet workers would then do at this point ? Demand section 6 and the ability to strike , but unfortunately for them the EAST side fleet workers wouldn’t be interested in hearing of such a thing because now that they had won a court case they would all seek to hang on as long as humanly possible for that day in which they might get their “back pay†checks . They would tell us to “be patient†and to suck it up for the union , knowing full well that while our union stalls the west workers would continue on for years at sub par wages and that in the event of a final court victory that NO west worker would EVER receive any profit ,check or gain from such a victory .
In my view it’s better that we are divested of such a possible future outcome because this would have bitterly divided us for years to come .

I want to take moment to remind all of you why this is a GOOD contract and not a BAD contract , it’s good because it UNITES us as never before . After we pass this contract there will be no west workers , there will be no station two workers and there will be no east station one workers , there will only be US .While it’s hard for each of us to see this as a huge plus from our own different self interests, it’s awe inspiring for the next time talks come around . Do you realize that our negotiators have had to bargain with a company that has probably come back with a response of “ well we’re giving your west workers and your station two workers a raise , why should we give the east workers one as well! Do you know how much money we’re spending ??†We cry because our sick pay is at 50% but would you rather we get it at 100 % yet our east workers in the class ONE stations get a negligible raise ? We are all getting those two things which are the most important to any worker , job SECURITY AND PAY .

I now want to speak to the matter of time , I talked about arbitration before , and as you all know in any event it would have taken a lot of time , but we should also be mindful that it will take further time for this company and our union to put together a new contract for us to vote on . To my west brothers and sisters and to a large part the east station two workers , how much longer do you want to go on getting paid crap ? I mean honestly , we complain about portions of this contract , but we are going to get what we want ,MONEY baby ,lots and lots of money … Do any of you really want to delay this contract any further? Shall we push back the end result another year only to make an extra 30 cents at each pay level ? Because that’s about what it would amount too , remember that in order for us to even GET this contract proposal we had to have outside mediation to help us . Some say we need to push this company , push it hard ! Well who among you feels like striking eh ? I have the feeling that we talk tough , but when push comes to shove it would dismaying to see how many would cross the picket line , and do you want to know what the response would be of those who would cross “ I have to feed my family “ . A strike with the west workers would never have succeeded because they never would have had the economic means to hold out .Furthermore if any of you have been paying attention to business news you’d see that it appears we are heading into another recession , Striking workers are easily replaced during economic downturns .

We don’t have what the East had before 9/11 , but then most major airlines don’t either .So calm down , take a breath and remember why you chose a job in the aviation industry . Enjoy a few days off and go somewhere , then tell all of your friends who don’t have airline jobs how great it feels to just “fly “ . To my east station one workers , I want to speak directly to you now , I know you’ve lost a lot through these two bankruptcies and that since the merger the hope of not only going back to the pre bankruptcy wages but also getting back pay has kept you going . That’s a hope that’s hard to let go of , I know if it were me I’d want to hold onto what could be my “ticket “ to the very end , at least emotionally I’d want to do so . But you need to think about yourselves for a moment , I mean think about what’s going to be best for you and your families long term health .Is the stress of the arbitration case REALLY worth it ? Watching it getting battered around in court for years and then maybe losing and thinking to yourself what could have been ? What do you think would be best for you, long term right now ? Waiting to see which way the case might go , or accepting an offer that has considerable advantages for you right now ? Your gonna get more money , that means more food for your family and more dough in your pocket , that sounds like a good deal to me . In fact , in many ways , what your now faced with is a lot of like the game show DEAL OR NO DEAL , if you haven’t watched it , take a moment and check it out (it’s got some hot models! Oh yeah!) . Are you going to walk away with the 300,000 or the 1 cent ? It’s up to you .
Finally if I’ve read this contract right it does something that I think needs to be done ASAP , it rights a tremendous wrong , a sin of one union brother against another . With this contract we can finally recall our union brothers that we expelled ,home with their pay and seniority at the time they were cast away .It is time to pass this contract and wipe away this horrid sixty day rule . Take a moment to Remember your friends that are no longer here .

I cant’ see what’s coming , and neither can anyone else , but we can plan using the information that we have at hand .Our boy doug LOVES to merge , so who knows , maybe this time next year we will be calling ourselves united instead of US AIRWAYS .. I don’t know about most of you , but I’m now tired of fighting the good fight , for me this offer is now a chance , a chance for me to lay down my burden , won’t you ?



Your union brother
Freedom

 

[jim425]

As I read through the TA, sift through all the topics on this forum, and converse with the co-workers at my station, it really seems that this proposal will get voted down. I am in a West Coast Field Station and I have endured the negotiating B.S. for long enough myself. YES...I do want a raise and job security, two things that would cause an immediate "yes" vote...but looking at the bigger picture, what sacrifices are made to get these 2 items. Sure the base pay goes up, but the COST of nearly everything goes up, too...it becomes a wash. I don't wish to cast a vote in response to "getting a raise" as many may do just to end this negotiating b.s. I really think the union can do better and, of course, the company is throwing its low-ball offer out as bait to see if the uninformed will swing the vote and put them right in the drivers seat with our work group. I am not trying to discount the efforts put in by the negotiating team, however, this T.A. leaves a lot to be desired. I guess we can speculate as much as we want, but we shall see when the votes are tallied.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Tony Armideo says that you need to accept this contract or else he will come over to your airport and smack you in the head with a chair.

 

[freedom]

you know what , after sleeping it over and thinking it through again i still feel that what our union is offering us is in all likely hood a good idea .

i just read through the IAM'S 2005 contract , it's pretty bad , and this contract that we are now being offered is an improvment over that , so i see no reason we shouldn't accept it .

I sat down and thougt to myself what would be different in my life by accepting this new contract

well for starters i'd have to stop abusing my sick days , that didn't strike me as being much of a give away .

Then i figured that id have to forget about profit sharing , but having only had it once no big loss either...

pay for my own clothes? that's fine , i'll buy one pair and wear them until the new contract in 2012.

Healthcare? what do i care , i never get sick and i'm so poor that if i did get seriously sick i'm screwed no matter what because i live paycheck to paycheck .

pay and vaction , that's where it's at for me , that's why i'm voting yes .


all of you who think doug parker has another better contract waiting in his desk draw better sneek into his office late at night open it up and help yourself to some jack , cause i have a feeling if this doesn't go throu that's all you'll be getting .

i'm tried of waiting i'm voting yes .

 

[GoldenRam94]

Did anyone ever think that Freedom is really some manager for USAir?

 

[freedom]

Did anyone ever think that Freedom is really some manager for USAir?

no i'm just an impoverished WEST WORKER WHO'S BEEN MAKING CRAP FOR WAGES FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm sick of it all!!!! how the #### much longer do you want us to WAIT!!!!!!! i mean who the #### are you to tell me i have to stay impovershied for a few more years , go #### yourself! I'M SICK AND TIRED OF BEING POOR!!!!!!!we need to VOTE THIS IN and make some MONEY!!!!!

EDIT , oh yeah , and ONE MORE THING

oh i SEE , NOW you want to fight ? really , you waited until the last possible moment to BECOME INVOLVED??? my goodness , could it be because the arbitration award could be lost or given away???

i haven't said this until now , but from my end i've had this feeling that the west workers have been the ONLY ones fighting for a new contract , while the east workers have been content to rest on their laurels and let the arbitration case play out ....

it is TOO LATE to start fighting , we HAVE been fighting for a LONG time , where have you been hiding huh ??????????

To all of you who have suddely popped out of nowhere and are now rasising hell , i have news for you ,if this gets voted down then the ball is in YOUR court .... that means YOU will be the ones atteneding the rallies and protests . Thats right , your going to have to go OUTSIDE away from your computer , you might have to Sacrifice your precious free time , non paid to advance the cause !! you will be the ones handing out pamplets and informing people about what's going on . While your doing this , i'm going to be sitting at home drinking a beer watching football the way you have ,for the last serval years while myself and some of your union co workers have been out fighting !!!!!!!!!

If this goes down your going to get exactly whatever it is that you want but don't quite yet know , or even know how to get what you want .

oh and one more thing , unions require participation , and no sitting at home writing angry messages on usaviation does NOT count .

Moderator Note:
Inproper word deleted by moderator. Next time you will get time off without farther warning.