Keep the IAM

[pjirish317]

I disagree, the I AM MANAGEMENT sold us out. While the aviation industry is not what it used to be, with everything else that is going on with rising prices on everything, why not at least $21 per hour? That to me is not unreasonable. My crystal ball is broke at the moment, so I can not tell the future, but where we are at right now, working for a profitable company, that has been profitable for 7 quarters straight now, the I AM MANAGEMENT threw in the towel, like they lost the fight. While the truth is that they did not even step into the ring. So we will see.

 

[mike33]

well mikes right it can't hurt to go and ASK questions , i might go myself , but if i shouldn't be there , can someone ask them how LONG it will take them to get us a contract , and don't settle for i don't know , ask them to estimate and be FORCEFULL about it .




I don't pretend to know everything but I think that a new union will just start at the same place the IAM left off. We already know what they had on the table by them presenting the TA to us. ADD or subtract. How hard can that be. Just for christ sakes add or subtract the right things that WE ASKED FOR in our surveys. Don't try and assume we didn't know what was good enough for us all. I don't need sympathy.....I need action and I needed it yesterday. To get a date/time of when will they get it done, is not answerable to the tee. Just the fact that we could move fwd is a plus........i'm done...it's lunch time


sunofsamsonite

 

[GoldenRam94]

I don't pretend to know everything but I think that a new union will just start at the same place the IAM left off. We already know what they had on the table by them presenting the TA to us. ADD or subtract. How hard can that be. Just for christ sakes add or subtract the right things that WE ASKED FOR in our surveys. Don't try and assume we didn't know what was good enough for us all. I don't need sympathy.....I need action and I needed it yesterday. To get a date/time of when will they get it done, is not answerable to the tee. Just the fact that we could move fwd is a plus........i'm done...it's lunch time
sunofsamsonite

Be careful with that kind of logic. Next thing you know the IBEW wannabes and lackies will be on here asking you to list what you might lose. All the time not realizing all they do have to lose, except the possibility of getting themselves in the 100K club.

 

[mike33]

Well Golden One

I guess I should clarify for our audience. By subtracting I meant the BS things like dropping the CIC. I should be more careful to explain myself. It won't happen again.



sunofsamsonite

 

[freedom]

As an aside to the company because I’m sure you monitor our message boards , another thought . After the east loses the COC they will most likely be consumed with rage as they watch the US airways lawyers high fiving themselves going out for drinks after the trial , while the east workers are left to the cold grip of POVERTY …

This company should not discount the HUMAN ELEMENT to any negotiations , while we may LOSE the COC we will actually be in a stronger position to get what we want , at that time , my requests for these three points will probably seem MODEST compared to what the easties will want …. Can you see it now , sick outs , work slow downs , picketing , and it won’t just be the rampers but MX as well ..All of that rage will come undone as the flood gates open ! That is the moment I live for , and that is the moment you should fear

 

[Jester]

Freedom,

I think you make a great deal of sense and appear reasonable, but I question some of your assumptions and conclusions.

You embrace the IAM, but in all honesty, do you think they have represented West all that well? Like you, I am West, and frankly, the IAM have been completely ineffective. Why has West been tied into East CIC problems? Because Parker wants something in return to bring the two operations together? We are under a separate agreement and working without a contract, so let Parker deal with West separately.

The outsourcing of stations is reasonable based upon your assumption of "one flight a day", but the reality is that some stations subject to outsourcing are doing a half dozen of mainline jets a day who are currently West employees. While I laud your concern about the company's competitive edge, let's not be so quick to throw other existing union members under the bus to get a contract.

As for West striking, the Company can't find enough people at $9/hour, and no offense to new hire green vests, let's see Company MBR's, aircraft damage, and delays after a month of them on the job. Go strike in the summer and see how many new hires last a week in either PHX or LAS. It isn't as if the Company has rejected West demands for pay parity with East, they just want something in return (CIC seems to be the biggest chip).

As for the outcome of the CIC as within the scenario you provided, regardless of who wins, the loser will foot drag and appeal for what could be many years. I seriously doubt Company will roll-over at the prospects of a $600 million increase in labor costs which means further delays to parity for West.

Let me say where I do agree with you. The hourly wage amounts being offered appear reasonable for the limited skill set required (and I know that will be a bitter pill for the East to accept in a higly competitive air travel market). Like you, I think that the glory days of $25/hour to shuck bags are over when an average hourly wage hovers around $16/hour in the US without profit sharing and otherwise fairly generous benefits. Especially in a job, and let's face more reality, it isn't as if we are humping for 8 straight with a couple of 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch sqeezed-in, because we all know the dirty secret about this job... we work about half the time while on property.

East siders who think they are impossible to be replaced should their wage demands become too high need to consider the fate of Alaska Airlines ramp agents who were replaced when the "last, best, final offer" was soundly rejected and that topped-out at around $16/hour after a sizable pay reduction. If I recall correctly 500 SEA ramp agents lost their jobs and replaced by a subcontractor. Same fate happened with Midwest Airlines MKE ramp agents too and neither of these companies were BK. When does IAM contract expire? About the same time as the final CIC ruling might take place?

So speaks Jester.

 

[bagchucker]

Just my .02 ...

I must say that being out here on a West Coast Field station... I am, and most of my co-workers, for that matter are very disenchanted with this whole union thing. Disconnected from everything is an understatement! The merger was announced over 2 years ago, and here we sit caught up in a mess that seems to get blacker by the day. 2 sides, 2 different needs...and a union that can't seem to address the needs of both sides, and a company that has been spiraling for months now. No leadership on the company side of the fence or the union side of the fence. An update once every 6-7 weeks on the IAM website with no info...WTF?? Where is the direction?!?! I know we are waiting for the COC deal and that is fine, but it just seems we have really gotten derailed in the process. I have lst my patience and just show up to do my job at this point. No incentive to do anything above my job duties.
I will say this... any union in the nation should fight for their members to keep jobs. Outsourcing should not be tolerated at any level. Keep the jobs for the workers...PERIOD. Oh...a raise is mandatory, too. I'd like to think that after the 11 years I have put in twith this industry, I am worth more that what I am currently paid!!! The guys at Southwest next door to us at the airport top out at $24 an hour after 10 years.... I have yet to look forward to $15 an hour. This is getting too old to bear anymore. Somebody do something... somebody who is making the 6 digit income who collects union dues ... do something!!

 

[redeye]

Questions for the West Coast Fleet

Who work the regional jets at the main hubs like PHX and LAS?

Are the Express Flight separate from mainline, and are they worked by Mesa Rampers?

Thanks,

 

[robbedagain]

i must ask , if fleet loses the profit sharing but all other labor groups keep thiers. what is wrong with that pic? to me, we should be able to keep that and still fix the contract without that threat as well as the 60 day rule bein eliminated without having to resort to cuts in the other things

 

[bagchucker]

Questions for the West Coast Fleet

Who work the regional jets at the main hubs like PHX and LAS?

Are the Express Flight separate from mainline, and are they worked by Mesa Rampers?

Thanks,

As far as I know, PHX ramp has their own Mesa staff to handle all Express flights. LAS Express flights are handled by mainline crews...

 

[bagchucker]

i must ask , if fleet loses the profit sharing but all other labor groups keep thiers. what is wrong with that pic? to me, we should be able to keep that and still fix the contract without that threat as well as the 60 day rule bein eliminated without having to resort to cuts in the other things

Robbed... I agree with you. Why give up profit sharing?! No other work group is. Sure it is a small token, but my take on it is get whatever this company is gonna give, because it hasn't amounted to much from the get go! Being from the West, I haven't had to deal with the 60 day clause. But, my thoughts on that clause is that it sucks and should be tossed out.

 

[wings396]

well i wasn't there when it happened to so i can't say with certainty how or why it happened , but i can make a guess . I'm assuming in BK that every labor group had to make a percentage of cuts aka savings for the company , perhaps the IAM decided that the guys who are most junior are the ones who would provide the cost savings , also maybe they felt that by getting rid of a few field stations they could save the majority of the membership . That’s just a guess , I assume that must have tried to justify it at the time ,what did they tell you about their reasons for doing it ?
Don’t mistake me for being a IAM cheerleader , I’m for getting this DONE , I want this finished , I want a TA , I want a decent standard of living ! As I see it , there’s only ONE way to do it before the end of 2010 , and that’s the way that I’ve suggested above .
I completely agree , we need to do away with the 60 day rule ASAP ..As to why it didn't extend to everyone on the last TA i don't get you , i thought it covered everyone ?

Another point ,brothers and sisters , it appears as if are heading toward a recession , I don’t think we are there yet , but it seems to be going that way .It’s going to be harder to bargain in a recession , of course thou I know very little about the economy and where it’s going , I’ve been crying the great depression is right around the next corner since I was 5 lol

Sadly the elimination of the 60 day rule was worded to cover only the people who were furloughed after the T/A went into effect. Most of us who were furloughed due to outsorcing of field stations still have just under 2 years of recall left. The only "Loophole" was if you could transfer and be back as an active employee before the T/A was in effect, which was nearly impossible to do and very risky as well.

 

[orioleman]

Freedom
The great IAM that you speak of is GOING to raise YOUR UNION DUES by almost DOUBLE

because they are going broke... maybe losing 76,000 members in the last 5 years has something to with it...


GET a LIFE the IAM is DEAD

 

[wings396]

As I posted before, the IAM had the balls to raise our dues after our station went to Mainline Express status which cut our hourly wage by $6. Imagine that, a huge paycut followed by a dues increase, just goes to show what the IAM's priorities are....DUES INCOME.
Since Freedom wasn't around when this and the 60 day rule came about, he can't fully understand the injustice that the IAM has done to many of it's members over the years. :down:

 

[oncearound]

The TA offered us was for the most part reasonable , but there are three additions that we need in order to seal this deal .....

Freedom,
You make some excellent points. We have gotten off track and misplaced the blame on the IAM. The blame belongs to the company. I agree the TA was close, certainly not perfect. We forget sometimes the company presented this and not the IAM. It was close, that's why we had the opportunity to vote on it. I agree too that the industry has changed. It won't be like the "good old days" no matter how much we want them back!
The talk of new unions is just, the grass is always greener syndrome. The IAM's not perfect. I don't know a union who is. We need to work at making it better. We need to communicate with them, get involved. Make some bylaw changes, heck, just read the bylaws for starters! I know really very little of our negotiators, but I do thank them for the time they spent away from their families, I know that was a hardship. I know they had to get frustrated with the endless trips and little progress. Which one of you would like to spend that much time bashing your head against the wall, and then only to get slammed by the people you represented, who's interest you tried to protect? We do need to give them some credit for what they have done so far. I'm sure the company was no walk in the park to deal with. It's the company's job to give you as little as possible. I believe they did all they could ..so far. I think we should be thanking them for their time. I don't want to hear that they are making $100,000 a year, so they should do this. It was a big group and I think, could be wrong, but I think most, were not AGC's, so they are making what the rest of us make, very little. Would you be willing to do that when you know people are going to s**t on you when you're done? I just don't think changing midstream is the way to go. I just don't get why people think a new union at this point, could get any further. You were right when you said they know how and who they are dealing with at this point. I say we have to continue with the IAM and let them finish what they have started. It is the shorter route to a contract for sure! We need to remain united to get this done.
No outsourcing.
No 60 day rule.
Keep IAM, yes, IAM pension plan.
'99 vacation, unless west is better.
'99 holidays, unless west is better.
West AGC's for fair west representation, elected of course, this spring.
Profit sharing.
Full sick pay.
10 year pay scale, with 2% annual increase.
And whatever else I'm forgetting!
I too, will remain in solidarity with whatever union we are...but for now, let's keep IAM, and see how good we can make our union!