Lay down your burden

[sidelined70]

The company is making a profit and this is The best that the IAM could come up with?

Within 3 years the 17 small west stations will be expressed/contracted out.

Within 5, there will will less than 10 cities with mainline fleet service.

It's pretty obvious what the companies goals are and if the IAM is going to quit on us now well, I might as well become a manager specializing in bringing contract labor online.

 

[isthisok]

sorry it took me a minute to figure out what you ment ....

After seeing what has happened to the EAST pilots there is no WAY i would want to entrust my future to an arbitrator .. once again , i don't belive in taking unnecessary risks ....

Freedom you have to know all the facts before you can comment about the East pilots. The East pilots plight was their own doing. They had it in their concessionary contract the ruling that the arbitrator made. His job was easy. They thought that the last merger with United was going to become reality so they protected the top 500 incase the merger went trough, everyone beyond that was a slot process. The arbitrators decision was made by applying the East pilots articles of their last concessionary package. In all they screwed themselves not the arbitrator. If the company thought that this arbitration had zero value why in the world would they offer you anything. They would have at worst offered our contract to you and we renegotiate in 2009. I could accept that, take the risk and you still get a raise because when all is said and done those of you that are voting yes are voting for the measy money, bottom line. Good luck to all.

 

[philly rocks]

Freedom, I can tell you this straight, the company wants this change of control thrown out so bad they can taste it ! We (cwa) did not have a vote, we got our dollar raise and lost a whole lot more in the end with rising health care that providers don't even accept in the North-east and our 50% loss in sick time. In the end my dear Union Brother it cost us dearly. Pull up your TA, go through your contract book and compare the two. Go on Cwa.net and pull up our TA, which is very, very similar. Don't be a fool, you are losing on this one. What about all those cites that can be outsourced? As a true Union Brother you look out for even the smallest group. My advise to all of you out there and listen carefully, "If the company wants you to vote yes, that means you should vote NO! Another bit of advise Freedom, "don't let the door hit you on the way out"!

 

[kao]

Freedom, I can tell you this straight, the company wants this change of control thrown out so bad they can taste it ! We (cwa) did not have a vote, we got our dollar raise and lost a whole lot more in the end with rising health care that providers don't even accept in the North-east and our 50% loss in sick time. In the end my dear Union Brother it cost us dearly. Pull up your TA, go through your contract book and compare the two. Go on Cwa.net and pull up our TA, which is very, very similar. Don't be a fool, you are losing on this one. What about all those cites that can be outsourced? As a true Union Brother you look out for even the smallest group. My advise to all of you out there and listen carefully, "If the company wants you to vote yes, that means you should vote NO! Another bit of advise Freedom, "don't let the door hit you on the way out"!

very nicely said....

 

[philly rocks]

Kao can tell you the horrors of voting in favor of this disgraceful TA. Go ahead Kao.

 

[kao]

Kao can tell you the horrors of voting in favor of this disgraceful TA. Go ahead Kao.

all i can say is read your darn TA....I am in an outsourced station and it is horrible!!! I have not had the opportunity to read all of the TA but if it is true about future outsourcing numbers-get ahold of some our guys that have been furloughed...first fleet took a paycut...about a year later-correct me if I am wrong-they find out they are getting outsourced.
You young guys out there voting no---stick to your guns! You have obviously read this thing and are looking at the future and the "whole" picture unlike some others on this board and with seniority.

 

[freedom]

Some of my west brothers would like me to pass on their regards to you in the EAST .


The reason you are weak is because you lack proper leadership and proper drive within your union ... you should at least take solace in the fact that once any TA is completed it is WE who will assume control of this sorry union . Yes that’s right I said it , it is WE in the west who will control your destiny rather than vice versa .Why do I say this with such utter confidence ? Because only now at the end have many of your union members awaken , you have been sleeping for a long time , and sooner or later you will go back to sleep , leaving only those who care left . You have forfeited your fates to us . Rest assured that corrupt leadership will not be tolerated in the future .There will be no more rigged elections and in the future you WILL be able to not only communicate with your IAM , but they will COMMUICATE with you .

Union leaders should take heed to remember that it is those who fight who lead .We have been fighting , if you wish to see your union and your jobs continue into the future you will be mindful of us . Unions do not continue or exist because of members who sit home and cry and complain , it’s the ones who go out into the streets and make a difference that give strength and life to a union .

Hey EAST !What we have gotten is what we have fought for , where have you been all of this time ? You’ve been sleeping , and now you put us down ? WE who have been fighting for the last several years ! You #### and moan about this new contract , but I ask you , what have you done for your union lately ? SHALL WE LET UNION MEMEBRS WHO HAVE NEVER LIFTED A FINGER FOR THE BENFIT OF THEIR UNION NOW DICTATE THE TERMS OF THE NEW CONTRACT??

Here maybe these terms would be to your liking ,we will redo the current contract and make it so you come in at 10 am and leave at 12:30 getting a full days pay , you’ll get paid 25 dollars an hour with full healthcare and you can pick your own flights and fly space positive

Or if that’s not to your liking we can arrange it where you just sit at home and get paid , and if that doesn’t suit you ,will listen to what ever it Is you have to say , ok ?


Last week we in the west we were the crap on your feet , and now this week you want us to stand with you????

We are the only ones who stood up for this , we’re the only ones who’ve been fighting . If you wanted something better, than you should have joined in the fight long ago , you still have that same picture of the rally you had last year on the IAM page , meanwhile our rallies and protests are plastered all over our union boards , in fact we’ve taken some of them down to conserve space …

What my brothers mean to say is that your final cries to get something better are just that , cries , the whining of spoiled brats who haven’t even taken action to save themselves and now want someone else to do the work to make things better …

Such are the sentiments of some of my fellow west workers .

 

[philly rocks]

Some of my west brothers would like me to pass on their regards to you in the EAST .
The reason you are weak is because you lack proper leadership and proper drive within your union ... you should at least take solace in the fact that once any TA is completed it is WE who will assume control of this sorry union . Yes that’s right I said it , it is WE in the west who will control your destiny rather than vice versa .Why do I say this with such utter confidence ? Because only now at the end have many of your union members awaken , you have been sleeping for a long time , and sooner or later you will go back to sleep , leaving only those who care left . You have forfeited your fates to us . Rest assured that corrupt leadership will not be tolerated in the future .There will be no more rigged elections and in the future you WILL be able to not only communicate with your IAM , but they will COMMUICATE with you .

Union leaders should take heed to remember that it is those who fight who lead .We have been fighting , if you wish to see your union and your jobs continue into the future you will be mindful of us . Unions do not continue or exist because of members who sit home and cry and complain , it’s the ones who go out into the streets and make a difference that give strength and life to a union .

Hey EAST !What we have gotten is what we have fought for , where have you been all of this time ? You’ve been sleeping , and now you put us down ? WE who have been fighting for the last several years ! You #### and moan about this new contract , but I ask you , what have you done for your union lately ? SHALL WE LET UNION MEMEBRS WHO HAVE NEVER LIFTED A FINGER FOR THE BENFIT OF THEIR UNION NOW DICTATE THE TERMS OF THE NEW CONTRACT??

Here maybe these terms would be to your liking ,we will redo the current contract and make it so you come in at 10 am and leave at 12:30 getting a full days pay , you’ll get paid 25 dollars an hour with full healthcare and you can pick your own flights and fly space positive

Or if that’s not to your liking we can arrange it where you just sit at home and get paid , and if that doesn’t suit you ,will listen to what ever it Is you have to say , ok ?
Last week we in the west we were the crap on your feet , and now this week you want us to stand with you????

We are the only ones who stood up for this , we’re the only ones who’ve been fighting . If you wanted something better, than you should have joined in the fight long ago , you still have that same picture of the rally you had last year on the IAM page , meanwhile our rallies and protests are plastered all over our union boards , in fact we’ve taken some of them down to conserve space …

What my brothers mean to say is that your final cries to get something better are just that , cries , the whining of spoiled brats who haven’t even taken action to save themselves and now want someone else to do the work to make things better …

Such are the sentiments of some of my fellow west workers .

 

[philly rocks]

Had to quote Freedom one more time, spoken by quite obviously a man with his own agenda and a large chip on his shoulder. Unity my dear Brother means "EVERYONE"! One who acts on his own for his own personal gains is the definition of someone who will grow old alone.

Next year at this time when all other labor groups open up their profit sharing check, Freedom will be working OT to pay for the rising medical bills and unpaid sick leave he took the previous year.

I would like everyone to please read Freedoms last link once again and then tell me that he fights for his Union Brothers and Sisters welfare. Let me end with his last quote, "WHAT MY BROTHERS MEAN TO SAY IS THAT YOUR FINAL CRIES TO GET SOMETHING BETTER ARE JUST THAT, CRIES,THE WHININ OF SPOILED BRATS WHO HAVEN'T EVEN TAKEN ACTION TO SAVE THEMSELVES AND NOW WANT SOMEON ELSE TO DO THE WORK TO MAKE THINGS BETTER" UNQUOTE.

Pretty sad huh? Now are those the words of a TRUE, FIGHTING, UNION LEADER?

 

[freedom]

Had to quote Freedom one more time, spoken by quite obviously a man with his own agenda and a large chip on his shoulder. Unity my dear Brother means "EVERYONE"! One who acts on his own for his own personal gains is the definition of someone who will grow old alone.

Next year at this time when all other labor groups open up their profit sharing check, Freedom will be working OT to pay for the rising medical bills and unpaid sick leave he took the previous year.

I would like everyone to please read Freedoms last link once again and then tell me that he fights for his Union Brothers and Sisters welfare. Let me end with his last quote, "WHAT MY BROTHERS MEAN TO SAY IS THAT YOUR FINAL CRIES TO GET SOMETHING BETTER ARE JUST THAT, CRIES,THE WHININ OF SPOILED BRATS WHO HAVEN'T EVEN TAKEN ACTION TO SAVE THEMSELVES AND NOW WANT SOMEON ELSE TO DO THE WORK TO MAKE THINGS BETTER" UNQUOTE.

Pretty sad huh? Now are those the words of a TRUE, FIGHTING, UNION LEADER?

ah but i am NOT a union leader , i am a union MEMEBER ... i do NOT lead i follow , and our union leadership has lead us to this , "Your negotiating committee unanimously recommends ratification of this agreement."

What i said above were the sentiments of some of the west workers , not all of them , and to a degree i share their views on you .
You have become courrpt and apathic ... you sell out your own union memebers and give the shaft to your furlouged employees ,if others do not agree with you then you resort to violence , i'm not making this up , it's history , you can't rewrite it .

Could we possibly have a better contract? well it sure would be nice to think so , but as doug parker would say "it is what it is " Who is there to fight philly rocks ? you say voting for this is what the company wants and therby we are giving in to them , but if the union wants it too , then we are fighting not only the company but also our selves .. how can we win in such an outcome ?

You say things need to be better , that this contract is horrible , who is there to make it better? not the company or the union as you would say , which means you are now appealing to the rable rousers in the union , your appealing to the people who go out and protest who want to see change and get something DONE , your appealing to my people ... and while a few of us may support you , i don't belive the vast majority will ...

we in the west are tired and poor and hungry , we want a better tomorrow , maybe this is it , maybe it isn't i can't see the future , i just have an opinon and i'm sharing it which makes me just another idot with an idea ...

if this contract is so bad, then you have NOTHING to be afraid of .....

and i end with this , i have seen much disagreement with what i wrote in my opening thought , but i have yet to see a true rebuttle of it ... i dunno , i feel like i'm debating people who are hiding their true thoughts in the shadows... 😛h34r:

 

[philly rocks]

So Freedom, if you read your TA you would also read the contract stays an additional 2 years. You are right, you are not a leader and you are a follower.
The East is also very hungry and poor. Voting No will open up more bargaining and more of a raise. Voting No would mean the company would definately counter and want to offer the profit sharing once again. Voting No would not hurt you my dear follower, it would help you get more. That is what the definition of BARGAINING is ! Vote NO and continue the bargaining process. Once the No vote is in, sessions for new bargaining will reappear and you will get more. Freedom, me thinks you are afraid of bargaining. You must take risks in life to get more. You must vote NO to save more jobs from being furloughed. If you would like i will write down alllll those cities that potentially can be outsourced if this T/A is voted in. A good stard Freedom would be for you to take a 101 course in LEADING.

You are all being given a priveledge to have a VOICE in your future, use that voice and vote NO!

 

[bagchucker]

As I read through the TA, sift through all the topics on this forum, and converse with the co-workers at my station, it really seems that this proposal will get voted down. I am in a West Coast Field Station and I have endured the negotiating B.S. for long enough myself. YES...I do want a raise and job security, two things that would cause an immediate "yes" vote...but looking at the bigger picture, what sacrifices are made to get these 2 items. Sure the base pay goes up, but the COST of nearly everything goes up, too...it becomes a wash. I don't wish to cast a vote in response to "getting a raise" as many may do just to end this negotiating b.s. I really think the union can do better and, of course, the company is throwing its low-ball offer out as bait to see if the uninformed will swing the vote and put them right in the drivers seat with our work group. I am not trying to discount the efforts put in by the negotiating team, however, this T.A. leaves a lot to be desired. I guess we can speculate as much as we want, but we shall see when the votes are tallied.

 

[freedom]

So Freedom, if you read your TA you would also read the contract stays an additional 2 years. You are right, you are not a leader and you are a follower.
The East is also very hungry and poor. Voting No will open up more bargaining and more of a raise. Voting No would mean the company would definately counter and want to offer the profit sharing once again. Voting No would not hurt you my dear follower, it would help you get more. That is what the definition of BARGAINING is ! Vote NO and continue the bargaining process. Once the No vote is in, sessions for new bargaining will reappear and you will get more. Freedom, me thinks you are afraid of bargaining. You must take risks in life to get more. You must vote NO to save more jobs from being furloughed. If you would like i will write down alllll those cities that potentially can be outsourced if this T/A is voted in. A good stard Freedom would be for you to take a 101 course in LEADING.

You are all being given a priveledge to have a VOICE in your future, use that voice and vote NO!

it's all well and fine to debate me , but it's our leadership i think you should be going after ...say you win this debate with me , that solves absolutely what ?until you can change the union's mind nothings gonna happen .

If this proposal is so bad then you need to bring it to your union leaders and let THEM know .....if they change their minds and say that this is no good , so will i .

in fact i'm sick of defending their decison online , sure it helps pass time for me but i don't relish the fact that i'm pissing off just about every union brother i have on this message board ..i am not a mouth peice for this union , i've said what i felt might be needed to be said in order to further the cause but damn i'm sure taking some heat for this .Come ON 141 , you need to do better than what your doing now in terms of commuication for once actually USE your webcite to ill effect . If you only throw a propsal out but don't bother to defend it , then how do you expect it to pass ? I've said it before and i'll say it again , communcation in the IAM 141 lodge SUCKS.... for once IAM leaders get it into your head that not everyone at work has someone in the union to explain things to them , that's the reason we have a WEBCITE , this is the 21st century , get with the game .

 

[philly rocks]

Freedom, that was the quickest course on 101 leadership I have ever seen. Now that you have come down from your high horse, and I am grateful for that listen to me. YOU are the UNION! There is not enough time for the IAM 141 kiss and tell question and answer game. From what I hear there are only a couple of days till DDay. How are they handling the proxies? Has anyone read your bi-laws and constitution to see who will be witness to this vote. Where does it state in you contract that one that does not vote is not a yes vote?

Believe me, and I am not talking CIC now. Show the company you are not pushovers, vote NO and there will be more beneficial bargaining. This is a very big game and you are being used as pawns. This will be your only opportunity to make the CHANGE for everyone.

 

[freedom]

Freedom, that was the quickest course on 101 leadership I have ever seen. Now that you have come down from your high horse, and I am grateful for that listen to me. YOU are the UNION! There is not enough time for the IAM 141 kiss and tell question and answer game. From what I hear there are only a couple of days till DDay. How are they handling the proxies? Has anyone read your bi-laws and constitution to see who will be witness to this vote. Where does it state in you contract that one that does not vote is not a yes vote?

Believe me, and I am not talking CIC now. Show the company you are not pushovers, vote NO and there will be more beneficial bargaining. This is a very big game and you are being used as pawns. This will be your only opportunity to make the CHANGE for everyone.

sorry philly rocks , while i could defently be wrong about all of this , and while in general i dislike most of the IAM , there is still one member of the union that i respect and will follow no matter what "read here" T R U S T ....and thats the man who represents those of us in the west .As long as he says vote yes , i'm voting yes no matter what my personal opionions might be , because i still trust him to make the right choice