LAX Maintenance Town Hall 2/24/15
- Thread starter Overspeed
- Start date
OP
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #141
In 2005 the IBT and CWA formed an alliance when US and HP merged. I haven't been able to find where it says the results of a vote but the article does say there will be a vote by the membership on the Alliance.
http://peoplesworld.org/teamsters-cwa-form-airline-customer-service-alliance/
http://peoplesworld.org/teamsters-cwa-form-airline-customer-service-alliance/
I think there will be a vote and that management is already in the know about it. Management is running around the system saying they have money for us and want to give it to us but they cant till they have a new joint agreement, of course they are lying, they could give us the money simply by signing an LOA with the two Unions like they have with the Pilots and Flight Attendants, but they choose not to. Nothing is legally stopping management from giving us not only the 4% but also the Delta plus 7%, they choose not to, and they are lying to you when they say they cant, the truth is they WON'T. They won't because they want to use that as leverage to get us into the Association and a five year deal where we will remain at the bottom of the industry for the next five years instead of three.Overspeed said:
I believe the vote will be whether we want the Association or no Association, as such a no Association vote should leave us exactly where we are, since after all nobody signed cards for anything so there is no basis for any decertification of either the IAM or TWU. USAIR pilots remained in separate Unions for years after the merger. Management is clearly trying to steer is into the Association which has already made clear they are agreeable to one huge concession, that instead of enhancing our 401K to what the pilots get or even what the Flight attendants get we would agree to a mealy $2/hr contribution to the IAMNPF (not inclusive of OT) which is even less than what the company contributes to non-union workers. This concession alone, before we even get to the table, would save AA millions and also has the benefit to the company of making OT costs pension free. Sure we will be pulling down $100k with the OT but instead of $5500 from the company going in there, or better yet $15,000 from the company when we get the Pilots 401K match, we would only get $4160 contributed to a Pension run by a Union we don't belong to regardless of how many hours we work. A pension that we would accumulate minimal benefit from in the few years we have left and a Pension that they would take away if we continued to work. If they agree to transfer our pensions into the IAMNPF AA would be able to eliminate hundreds of millions of liability. The IAMNPF VS current 401K match would save the company at least 20 cents per hour for every hour worked, the more OT worked the more they save, and each increase in pay would save them even more, as far as Pension costs. So should we go for up to $15000 cash (provided we put in at least 15% as well) being put into an account we control by having the same match as the pilots or settle for $4160 given to the IAMNPF in our name with a promise of a Pension?
I know what the company would rather have, I know what the Association would rather have, what would you rather have? I have 12 years before 65, for me the Pilot 401K match would allow me to put away around $360,000 in the Credit Union or government bonds by 65 ($180,000 from AA and $180,000 from me) . So if I retire at 65 and live to 80 that would pretty much make up for what we lost with the pension, it would provide me with an additional $24,000 a year to live off of at 65 and would likely enable me to retire before 65, I expect around $20,000 a year from the AA pension after 27 years in the plan and have a little in the 401K already. What would the total promised value of the IAMNPF be for just 12 years (assuming it doesn't run into the same problems so many multi-employer plans run into and they don't cut benefits)? I'm guessing that the IAM plan after 10 years would net me less than $1000/month and I would not be allowed to work as a mechanic. I would pay in $4000 a year for 12 years and likely double what I got but I'm guessing that the total I would receive over a lifetime would be less than $100,000. So do we shoot for AA paying just $40,000 over the entire remainder of the average mechanics career towards our pension or restore what we lost with the freezing of our pension by getting a match similar to what the pilots got? If we end up in the Association you will not have a say in it.
So what I can see happening the NMB making their announcement that there will be a vote, and even though it doesn't conform to their rules the Association will be on the vote because from where they are sitting as mediators between carriers and Unions both parties want it (what we want doesn't really matter) . The company is pushing the Association and we will also have the Internationals pushing for the Association, all stressing that there is money waiting for us and we need to get this done, that we cant delay, blah, blah , blah, hurry hurry hurry, its only the rest of your career we are talking about here. Then "interveners" have their window to present cards. Hopefully the TWU will announce they want to be on the ballot. If not, then we may need to act real quick and put up another option because I would rather have an entirely new Union than be stuck into this Association where we are split between two. From what I've seen already of of this brain child of Jim Littles abomination I want no part of it. If the TWU doesn't push to be on the ballot during the window then we need to find someone who is willing to represent us all as one Union.
Lets look at what they have so far with this Association:
-A Constitution that removes the members and even the elected representatives of the members of either organization from any decision making power other than ratification of contracts.
-An agreement that their objective is to put us all into the IAMNPF
-An agreement to determine seniority tie breakers by SSN
-Agrees to put the IAM in charge for the first two years, so the same guy who brought back a concessionary deal eight years after leaving bankruptcy, with a company earning billions in profits per quarter, will be running our negotiations
-agreed that the IAM with one third the amount of workers will not only run the negotiations and the Association for the first two years but also have an equal number of representatives at negotiations, thereby effectively giving the IAM the majority.
We are basically put in limbo, paying dues to a Union but having an Association controlling everything.
Bob, good post.
I urge everyone to read the part about the pensions very carefully.
I disagree with you on the NMB putting the Association on the ballot, I will have to see that to believe it.
It's never been done before, if it has, no one has been able to show evidence of it yet.( see the "IAM or TWU" thread I just bumped)
I do think TWU and IAM will very quickly try to get an internal approval election of the Association, as the NMB is not in that buisness .
I agree with you that it will be voted down and we will be back at square one.
One company, two unions.
I urge everyone to read the part about the pensions very carefully.
I disagree with you on the NMB putting the Association on the ballot, I will have to see that to believe it.
It's never been done before, if it has, no one has been able to show evidence of it yet.( see the "IAM or TWU" thread I just bumped)
I do think TWU and IAM will very quickly try to get an internal approval election of the Association, as the NMB is not in that buisness .
I agree with you that it will be voted down and we will be back at square one.
One company, two unions.
- Banned
- #145
Did you not learn the first time when you tried this?Bob Owens said:
You were removed from office before for Dual Unionism, correct?
And you are an officer of the TWU and took an oath to uphold the TWU Constitution.
From the TWU Constitution:
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
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You see what you want, don't you? He said this:700UW said:
"If the TWU doesn't push to be on the ballot during the window then we need to find someone who is willing to represent us all as one Union"
Your blind devotion to the IAM is as bad as WT's to delta.
It seems that Bob wants to better the working conditions, pay, and benefits of the AA membership, not blindly follow the TWU/IAMAW down some dues collection trail.
Tried what , being the voice of the people who elected me or not being a puppet to people leading us into a disaster?700UW said:
Dual Unionism is exactly what they are pushing on us through this Association. As I said we need for TWU to be on the Ballot. If they don't want us then we have to find someone who does.
As I said in my first Kangaroo Court, my Allegiance is to the members who elected me first. This Association is an abomination and I do not support it. One contract, one Union. I believe we should stay TWU, not split and send some of our guys to the IAM in exchange for some of their guys in the TWU. I believe Jim Little, the guy who created this mess was removed at our last Convention because the majority did not support the things he was doing, but unfortunately he signed a contract with the IAM and the International so far has lacked the balls to say they will not honor that BS contract. I have not yet met one member who wants this. Who am I here for, the International or the members?
- Banned
- #149
No they are not, prove it.Bob Owens said:
There is a signed agreement between the IAM and TWU.
We know you already hired Seeham to file a lawsuit once the NMB announces their decision.
The Association Agreement is a binding and legal document,and the TWU already tried to get out of it, they were told by lawyers they cant.
So if they try to push themselves on the ballot there will be consequences.
Bob, you are just like WT, you spin things to your narrative and when shown to be wrong, you never reply about that post.
Just like I showed you how after the IAM M&R at US voted down a TA and we went on strike. Funny I heard crickets from you after that post.
