LAX Maintenance Town Hall 2/24/15

[Bob Owens]

It use to be 35% of the cards were needed to call for an election and people who didn't vote were counted as no votes.

The NMB changed the voting rules I be in 2010 where votes not cast weren't counter at all and that's when the representational ballots were changed to include a vote for no union and DL lobbied Congress to change the call for an election from 35% to 50%.

The only person making stuff up is you.

It's all out there for you too educate yourself.

Thats not what the discussion was about though. The discussion was about how an Association becomes the bargaining agent and whether there has to be a vote at some point.  You then stated that the rules changed. A reasonable interpretation of that response would be that you didn't believe a vote had to take place, that the rules changed. 
 
Yes, it used to be that those who didnt vote were counted as votes for decertification or against initial certification but that wasn't part of the discussion, nobody disputed that if there was a ballot from the NMB that NO Union would be on it.  Just as nobody disputed that once upon a Time the IAM struck USAIR, it simply had nothing to do with what was being discussed.  

 

[CMH_GSE]

Your understanding of the ballot, your opinion, or is there a source?

That is impossible as the rules use to state 50% +1 off all eligible votes and in 2010 it was changed to 50% +1 of all votes cast.
How many times do I have to explain the same thing to you over and over?

ok
I see what you did there

All votes cast
Not eligible voters,

 

[700UW]

The IBT/CWA held their own vote, the choice was yes or no for the association.
 
US said they would challenge the IBT and CWA for the association, if they didnt agree to just transition the former HP IBT agents to the CWA US CBA.
 
Ask John John, he will tell you.
 
CMH can you not do math?
 
The rules at this time and for the election you posted is a union has to get 50% +1 of ALL VOTES CAST.
 
Votes Cast were:  101
TWU got: 58 votes, last time I checked 58 out of 101 votes is 57.4% of votes cast.
PAFCA got: 43 votes.  43 out of 101 votes is 42.7% of the votes cast.
 
Therefore the TWU was certified.
 
So please show me how 58 votes out of 101 cast is not over 50%+1.
 
Educate yourself.

 

[Bob Owens]

Your understanding of the ballot, your opinion, or is there a source?

I believe its on the NMB website, but like I said they kind of do what they want. I never saw anything in there that allowed them to accept the IAM/CWA Association either but there are many such Associations in the rails. Thing is IIRC the employers often negotiate as Associations as well and set up National contracts across the industry. So its very different. Give us all the stuff they have and I'd be Ok with saying "The rails do it". RR contracts can not be voided in BK either, they can only go through Section six. 

 

[700UW]

There is no IAM/CWA Association, that would be the IBT and CWA.
 
http://files.cwa-union.org/CwaNet/NMBCertification4-20-06.pdf

 

[swamt]

 

Please for the purpose of absolute clarity, POST a LINK to the rule changes, or else it's just you making shyte up.
 

[/QUOTE]He is in charge of the scare tactics.
 

Your understanding of the ballot, your opinion, or is there a source?

I believe he is repeating what 700 is saying will be on the ballot.  It is not controled by the NMB so the unions can put what ever they want on the internal ballot.

 

[700UW]

Dec 16, 2011
 
Contact: Candice Johnson or Liz Schilling, CWA Communications, 202-434-1168, [email protected] or [email protected](*)
 
WASHINGTON D.C. – Today, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld the rule changes adopted by the National Mediation Board (NMB) in 2010 that are designed to hold NMB elections to the same basic democratic principles as other elections in our nation.  Given congressional Republicans’ obsession with overturning the NMB rules change by claiming that the election changes overstepped the Board’s authority, today’s judicial ruling eliminates the lead rationale used by the GOP to block the FAA Reauthorization bill over the NMB rules issue. (*)
 
“This court ruling demolishes the argument that the NMB overstepped its bounds in ensuring that NMB elections count only the ballots of those who actually vote,” said Candice Johnson, CWA Communications Director.  “Just as importantly, today’s ruling means that the rationale used by many Republican leaders to continue to block the long-term FAA agreement is null and void.  This ruling settles this issue once and for all: Republicans cannot continue to block the upgrades and job benefits of the FAA over a provision that has the force of law, fairness, and common sense behind it.”(*)
 
As the D.C. Circuit’s majority opinion reads, “For seventy-five years, the National Mediation Board counted non-voters as voting against union representation, thereby requiring a majority of eligible voters to affirmatively vote for representation before a union could be certified.  In 2010, the Board issued a new rule: elections will henceforth be decided by a majority of votes cast, and those not voting will be understood as acquiescing to the outcome of the election.  Appellants challenge the new rule, claiming that it violates the statute and is arbitrary and capricious.  Rejecting these arguments, the district court granted summary judgment to the Board.”(*)
 
The judicial challenge was led by the Air Transport Association, primarily Delta Air Lines.  With a district court already ruling in the NMB’s favor, today’s appellate court ruling severely damages the claim that the NMB did anything except bring its elections in line with basic democratic principles and the standard followed in every U.S. election. (*)
 
“Republican leaders and others obsessed with union-busting are blocking the FAA Reauthorization needlessly over a provision that a series of courts have now declared as fair and valid.  House Republican leaders should admit that their true motive is to deny workers’ their right to a union voice, rather than reach a sensible agreement over the FAA Reauthorization bill,” Johnson said.
 

 

[Bob Owens]

 

Dec 16, 2011
 
Contact: Candice Johnson or Liz Schilling, CWA Communications, 202-434-1168, [email protected] or [email protected](*)
 
WASHINGTON D.C. – Today, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld the rule changes adopted by the National Mediation Board (NMB) in 2010 that are designed to hold NMB elections to the same basic democratic principles as other elections in our nation.  Given congressional Republicans’ obsession with overturning the NMB rules change by claiming that the election changes overstepped the Board’s authority, today’s judicial ruling eliminates the lead rationale used by the GOP to block the FAA Reauthorization bill over the NMB rules issue. (*)
 
“This court ruling demolishes the argument that the NMB overstepped its bounds in ensuring that NMB elections count only the ballots of those who actually vote,” said Candice Johnson, CWA Communications Director.  “Just as importantly, today’s ruling means that the rationale used by many Republican leaders to continue to block the long-term FAA agreement is null and void.  This ruling settles this issue once and for all: Republicans cannot continue to block the upgrades and job benefits of the FAA over a provision that has the force of law, fairness, and common sense behind it.”(*)
 
As the D.C. Circuit’s majority opinion reads, “For seventy-five years, the National Mediation Board counted non-voters as voting against union representation, thereby requiring a majority of eligible voters to affirmatively vote for representation before a union could be certified.  In 2010, the Board issued a new rule: elections will henceforth be decided by a majority of votes cast, and those not voting will be understood as acquiescing to the outcome of the election.  Appellants challenge the new rule, claiming that it violates the statute and is arbitrary and capricious.  Rejecting these arguments, the district court granted summary judgment to the Board.”(*)
 
The judicial challenge was led by the Air Transport Association, primarily Delta Air Lines.  With a district court already ruling in the NMB’s favor, today’s appellate court ruling severely damages the claim that the NMB did anything except bring its elections in line with basic democratic principles and the standard followed in every U.S. election. (*)
 
“Republican leaders and others obsessed with union-busting are blocking the FAA Reauthorization needlessly over a provision that a series of courts have now declared as fair and valid.  House Republican leaders should admit that their true motive is to deny workers’ their right to a union voice, rather than reach a sensible agreement over the FAA Reauthorization bill,” Johnson said.
 

 

Yes I was at those hearings and IIRC not once was anything mentioned as far as Associations and how they become the new collective bargaining agent in a merger. 
 
Didn't one of the pro-association bloggers here say a while back he didn't want a vote because we could end up non-union if enough people didn't vote? Another scare tactic? 

 

[700UW]

It is new territory the IAM has associations in the railroads and at UPS.
 
The CWA/IBT have it.
 
There are no rules in the NMB Representational Manual covering this.
 
The hold up is the accredited groups, at US we went after the planners and material handlers and other groups, the NMN accredited them into the M&R IAM CBA and certification without a vote.
 
At PMUS there are more classifications in maintenance under the CBA while their counterparts at AA doing the same job are non-union.

 

[CMH_GSE]

You are correct, there are Associations in the rails, the CWA/IBT at least asked the members first.

Jeez, I wonder why the TWU/IAM didn't also ask the members first.

The whole thing smells bad.

 

[Rogallo]

There are no rules about forming an association.
 

 
There will be now!

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
There are no rules in the NMB Representational Manual covering this.
 
 

Probably because they never figured that Unions would become so callous to the best interests of the members they claim to represent that they would agree to share their members like they owned them. The whole basis of Unionism is solidarity, what they are trying to do is put us in a structure thats really an Alliance, fraught with all the inherent weaknesses that Alliances have. They didn't create this Association because it was in our interests, they created it because it was in their interests. Unions preach that their members should put aside their self interests in the name of Unity, to act as one but then they aren't willing to walk the walk. At least with the pilots and flight attendants they had Unions that put the members first, and walked away rather than split the baby.
 
The membership is the baby here and the IAM and TWU are the Harlots and much to Solomon's dismay they both agree "Let it be neither mine nor thine but divide it". 

 

[700UW]

Bob Owens the self-appointed savior of the Line Mechanics, and yet in over 10 years or more being on the NC you couldnt do jack.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob Owens the self-appointed savior of the Line Mechanics, and yet in over 10 years or more being on the NC you couldnt do jack.

Nope not ten years, four. Not self appointed either, elected by my peers 5 times. At least I kept my members informed and didn't just let others pull my strings like you. 
 
See you are following the same pattern of when you cant refute what I write you try and change the subject and refute me. Did they teach you that in IAM school? 

 

[Vortilon]

Bob Owens the self-appointed savior of the Line Mechanics, and yet in over 10 years or more being on the NC you couldnt do jack.

 
That means so much coming from a NON AMT, IAM stooge!