JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

Isn’t this all UAL related? Is anyone paying any attention to this here even though you and Tim keep pumping this up?

What’s the agenda with cluttering this thread here with this?

No agenda, but what happens at AS or UA has implications here and you know that full well WeAA. AA doesn’t exist in a vacuum. And someone has to pay for your cushy top of scale hub job and that’s the people in the likes of TLH or MLB working for Eulen or ATS who are cross utilized, on their feet all day, work split shifts under terms you wouldn’t never be subject to.

A benchmark for costs is established on a system level and you are on the far right side of the tail and are subsidized by low wage types at small cities.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

No agenda, but what happens at AS or UA has implications here and you know that full well WeAA. AA doesn’t exist in a vacuum. And someone has to pay for your cushy top of scale hub job and that’s the people in the likes of TLH or MLB working for Eulen or ATS who are cross utilized, on their feet all day, work split shifts under terms you wouldn’t never be subject to.

A benchmark for costs is established on a system level and you are on the far right side of the tail and are subsidized by low wage types at small cities.

Josh

Ok. But you certainly got one hell of a beef it seems with the IAM. It’s almost like they took the last Chocolate Chip out of the jar and you were hungry for Chocolate.

 

[robbedagain]

Robbed my understanding 700 worked for US, not AA and apparently was engaged with the IAM in various capacities.

El Al started today and is year round service on the 777. El Al pulled out in October 2008 with a 767-200ER, due to the fuel price run-up, subsequent downturn, and then Israel being rated category 2 barred El Al from starting new routes until 2012. In 2015 BOS came back online with 767-300ER, the 763 doesn’t have the range for MIA and was not possible until the 777 fleet had some slack with the new 787s going to HKG, LHR and EWR.

Josh

I did not know that Israel had been down graded at one time When I worked in BOS from 99 and 00 I never saw EL AL but Ive seen them at EWR Does their 763 stop for fuel from BOS?

as for 700 yes he did do a lot of the union work and has helped many workers near and far.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok. But you certainly got one hell of a beef it seems with the IAM. It’s almost like they took the last Chocolate Chip out of the jar and you were hungry for Chocolate.

Hey Weezz come back to Swaland Hackcough misses you!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim:
As I understand it from reading the IAM Journal there were ACards collected at McGee and UGE which the company “voluntarily” recognized. What was the ratification process for those CBAs?

Josh

There was no ratification. At mcgee, the contract was actually signed 3 days before the nmb certified. The real problem is loa #9 in the ua agreement. It releases management from all committments just like at alaska. Uge will take over alot if not all hub work. Sad

 

[737823]

Ok. But you certainly got one hell of a beef it seems with the IAM. It’s almost like they took the last Chocolate Chip out of the jar and you were hungry for Chocolate.

Have you not been following my posts?

Josh

 

[737823]

There was no ratification. At mcgee, the contract was actually signed 3 days before the nmb certified. The real problem is loa #9 in the ua agreement. It releases management from all committments just like at alaska. Uge will take over alot if not all hub work. Sad

Wow, thanks Tim. So much for this not compromising mainline work at AS/UA. Then again even passenger service the IAM COPS hardly has anyone east of DEN (just ORD & DCA?) and we all know what happened for SEA ramp.

Why does the IAM pass this off as some innovative, forward thinking model in the journal? They’re basically collaborating with and catering to management demands and trying to secure dues all the while not providing democratic ratification and union certification the basic tenant of unionism. This is business unionism.

Josh

 

[737823]

I did not know that Israel had been down graded at one time When I worked in BOS from 99 and 00 I never saw EL AL but Ive seen them at EWR Does their 763 stop for fuel from BOS?

as for 700 yes he did do a lot of the union work and has helped many workers near and far.

Robbed they’re separate services, BOS is nonstop 763 and MIA is nonstop 777.

LY left BOS in the 1980s if memory serves and at the very end it was a tag from Montreal.

Btw was there any movement on your grievance from 2009?

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Wow, thanks Tim. So much for this not compromising mainline work at AS/UA. Then again even passenger service the IAM COPS hardly has anyone east of DEN (just ORD & DCA?) and we all know what happened for SEA ramp.

Why does the IAM pass this off as some innovative, forward thinking model in the journal? They’re basically collaborating with and catering to management demands and trying to secure dues all the while not providing democratic ratification and union certification the basic tenant of unionism. This is business unionism.

Josh

they can pass it off however they want, it isn't even worthy of business unionism. They took a page from the SEIU union where they get voluntarily recognized with low wage earners in return for dues. The SEIU and IBT have both sold out for massive part time and low wage earners. IBT virtually doubled its membership when they signed the part time language at UPS back in the 90s. Same will happen at United until at least UGE takes over, and the same happened at American with the AIP as the TWU part time language was watered down. They have signed pink dog contracts at United where all jobs will be lost in 2024 to UGE or otherwise, and Alaska where all jobs are mostly lost on the ramp to McGee, and In customer service Alaska where most jobs will be lost except in a couple stations. American will be the last ramp mainline other than Southwest/ Not sure of the AIP language and if envoy takes over more work but the part time language was certainly watered down.

Link me the IAM Journal.

 

[wings396]

Ok. But you certainly got one hell of a beef it seems with the IAM. It’s almost like they took the last Chocolate Chip out of the jar and you were hungry for Chocolate.

Couldn't agree more with you. This fella has an enormous amount of interest and knowledge about the IAM and the airline. I've been saying for years just how absurd it is for someone outside of the industry to be so fixated about all of this. He without a doubt has some alterior motive and reasoning for all of his involment here. Either his Daddy got screwed by the company or the union, or he's serving as a mouthpiece for somebody.

 

[737823]

they can pass it off however they want, it isn't even worthy of business unionism. They took a page from the SEIU union where they get voluntarily recognized with low wage earners in return for dues. The SEIU and IBT have both sold out for massive part time and low wage earners. IBT virtually doubled its membership when they signed the part time language at UPS back in the 90s. Same will happen at United until at least UGE takes over, and the same happened at American with the AIP as the TWU part time language was watered down. They have signed pink dog contracts at United where all jobs will be lost in 2024 to UGE or otherwise, and Alaska where all jobs are mostly lost on the ramp to McGee, and In customer service Alaska where most jobs will be lost except in a couple stations. American will be the last ramp mainline other than Southwest/ Not sure of the AIP language and if envoy takes over more work but the part time language was certainly watered down.

Link me the IAM Journal.

Thanks again Tim, I was just summarizing how the communications department has tried to pass this off. And unfortunately many labor people who don’t know the history with Alaska SEA in 2005 will read this and think the IAM is being forward thinking:

https://www.goiam.org/news/iam-journal/iam-journal-winter-2017-2018/

see p. 16 for the UGE and McGee article

On the point of organizing low wage workers and outfits like these I can see both sides of the issue. On one hand, from an organized labor perspective there is real value in having people engaged with your movement and at least on paper, some protection that a CBA can legally provide. But when outfits like these get pushed instead of getting good agreements at the parent carrier it becomes area of concern. So I agree it’s a complicated issue but these hollow 20 page CBAs rife with “at the discretion of management” or “in accordance with company policies” is a joke. I mean why benchmark to an ACA silver plan? Anyone making the kind of money these agreements will provide would anyway qualify for significant subsidies under the ACA or most likely Medicaid if they’re based in one of the states that have expanded coverage to 133% of the federal poverty line. Medicaid would provide superior coverage as the people would owe nothing out of pocket or deal with the administrative challenges of health insurance and the marketplace.

Josh

 

[737823]

Couldn't agree more with you. This fella has an enormous amount of interest and knowledge about the IAM and the airline. I've been saying for years just how absurd it is for someone outside of the industry to be so fixated about all of this. He without a doubt has some alterior motive and reasoning for all of his involment here. Either his Daddy got screwed by the company or the union, or he's serving as a mouthpiece for somebody.

Find a beef with LAA/American Airlines, other than onboard service, S80 fleet and network changes. You know full well it is LUS/US Airways/USAIR when you say “the company”. Just wanted to make that point clear.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Couldn't agree more with you. This fella has an enormous amount of interest and knowledge about the IAM and the airline. I've been saying for years just how absurd it is for someone outside of the industry to be so fixated about all of this. He without a doubt has some alterior motive and reasoning for all of his involment here. Either his Daddy got screwed by the company or the union, or he's serving as a mouthpiece for somebody.

Mouthpiece.

This individual (firm) keeps detailed files and trots them out with impunity. My guess is a representative of Ford and Harrison that works hand in glove with Tim? Tim did get caught by me here that one time putting out a F&M internal E Mail before he took it down quickly when I caught him so.

I think it’s irrelevant anyway because the traffic they need just doesn’t exist here anymore with all the massive industry wage increases. Essentially people right now have moved on from caring about this stuff they’re trying to sell. And Tim is lieing through his teeth on the 2024 UAL totality Ramp loss BTW. Complete fake news when you actually read the language.

The World is full of pretty manipulative individuals though unfortunately.

 

[WeAAsles]

Find a beef with LAA/American Airlines, other than onboard service, S80 fleet and network changes. You know full well it is LUS/US Airways/USAIR when you say “the company”. Just wanted to make that point clear.

Josh

Names are just paint on the side of Airplanes and walls. It’s called American Airlines because that name has better Worldwide recognition than any other name that could have been used.

The business philosophies come out of all the individuals minds who are in the employ of the service provided by the name.

 

[737823]

Names are just paint on the side of Airplanes and walls. It’s called American Airlines because that name has better Worldwide recognition than any other name that could have been used.

The business philosophies come out of all the individuals minds who are in the employ of the service provided by the name.

Gotta agree with you there, American Airlines exists in name only but that’s no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention for the past six years now.

There are still some LAA crews that remember the better days, and I will grant you the ex-TW crews genuinely deliver very good polished service upfront when in their uniforms.

Josh