JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

If the IAM cannot get what considers to be important in a JCBA (catering, US healthcare, scope, etc.) while it maintains veto control to nix any Association TA, then why should anyone be surprised when it requests Section 6 when the time comes? Obviously after years of negotiations with the Association, the IAM could argue there is an impasse and push quickly for mediation.

Given the Company has demonstrated very profitable quarters, the IAM may believe their best chances are with mediation and binding arbitration in order to maintain what was kept through a couple of US bankruptcies. It would require IAM breaking with the Association, but I am not feeling much love between the IAM and TWU lately.

When the Company and Association agreed to have the NMB as observers in the current process I shared that it seemed the Company used that as a preventive measure to desuade the IAM from expecting a different outcome in Mediation.

The NMB has an interest to prevent these negotiations from reaching their calendar and will advise all parties in no uncertain terms their ability to get the best deal is in the current process.

In mediation, and especially in arbitration, the chances of keeping their current medical and scope are just about zero. That process not only takes the airline industry in consideration, but all national industry as a whole and the trend in that aspect is against us.

 

[Albert]

If the IAM cannot get what considers to be important in a JCBA (catering, US healthcare, scope, etc.) while it maintains veto control to nix any Association TA, then why should anyone be surprised when it requests Section 6 when the time comes? Obviously after years of negotiations with the Association, the IAM could argue there is an impasse and push quickly for mediation.

Given the Company has demonstrated very profitable quarters, the IAM may believe their best chances are with mediation and binding arbitration in order to maintain what was kept through a couple of US bankruptcies. It would require IAM breaking with the Association, but I am not feeling much love between the IAM and TWU lately.

Arbitration???? Yikes

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez remember your Yoga breath OHMMMmmm

DFW GEN wants us to put on a show Al. Hey Al I’m coming downstairs after lunch and I see two guys on the gate with 3 inch Ponytails on TOP of their head???????

Can you please explain WTF I was looking at?

 

[Tim Nelson]

The Association should be explaining the challenges faced by the IAM and the TWU as each side is trying to get different things for each of their memberships.

The IAM is trying to preserve some of their priority items such as their Scope and Medical language.

The TWU is trying to gain in their allotment of holidays, sick days, double time language and the like.

Our unions and the Association have to balance the needs of two sides, while at the same time dealing with the positions of the Company.

Once a TA comes out I'd be pretty surprised if many in the TWU wouldn't want for the process to continue rather than accept the changes that are certainly coming. At that point, both sides may see these negotiations from similar viewpoints. It is unfortunate there is no dialogue to bridge that gap today.

Those that criticize the IAM for not participating in the protests don't really seem to have any idea of what is happening or taking any consideration as to the position of our Brothers and Sisters in the IAM.

We have a contract because 2 unions stuck together. Dont let the iam off the hook. They should be picketing because all of us need to advance further.
The reason for the stall is politics. After June, things will move. Until then, its politically incorrect for any iam boss to picket with twu cuz they created the narrative that the twu is the enemy cuz it wants to slash our benefits. Many lus bought that. I work with 1200 solid twu members in ord and they are strong union and would love our healthcare. The enemy is management.

 

[Albert]

When the Company and Association agreed to have the NMB as observers in the current process I shared that it seemed the Company used that as a preventive measure to desuade the IAM from expecting a different outcome in Mediation.

The NMB has an interest to prevent these negotiations from reaching their calendar and will advise all parties in no uncertain terms their ability to get the best deal is in the current process.

In mediation, and especially in arbitration, the chances of keeping their current medical and scope are just about zero. That process not only takes the airline industry in consideration, but all national industry as a whole and the trend in that aspect is against us.

True this isn't MLB we would get killed with arbitration part time, scope, ready reserve you name it

 

[737823]

Why don’t you divulge who you really are and you may actually get people to both read you and even answer?

I never really did understand what people are afraid of? Maybe that’s Political too? Or part of a bigger agenda?

Otherwise though you do raise a good question here I have to admit if true.

“Why is that in 03/2014 the IAM picketed outside B-1/south at Logan and then treasurer Steve Grossman even paid a visit? Is 141 only willing to picket for standalone talks? Is Klemm not a fan of picketing but Delaney and Canale were willing to back in the day?”

Tough questions.

Weez I’ve offered to meet you at Gulfsteam, the airport, you know that and don’t want to and then come up with these answers that you are on bird watching trips with Roabilly. What do you want me to drive up to Delray or whenever it is you are?

I was there, and he was also in attendance:

https://www.goiam.org/news/iam-members-protest-unfair-treatment-by-us-airways/

Josh

 

[NYer]

We have a contract because 2 unions stuck together. Dont let the iam off the hook. They should be picketing because all of us need to advance further.
The reason for the stall is politics. After June, things will move. Until then, its politically incorrect for any iam boss to picket with twu cuz they created the narrative that the twu is the enemy cuz it wants to slash our benefits. Many lus bought that. I work with 1200 solid twu members in ord and they are strong union and would love our healthcare. The enemy is management.

Any activity that deals with negotiations should be done only if both sides agree and can move ahead together.

I know your point of view comes with a political tinge and makes the opinion a bit biased.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez I’ve offered to meet you at Gulfsteam, the airport, you know that and don’t want to and then come up with these answers that you are on bird watching trips with Roabilly. What do you want me to drive up to Delray or whenever it is you are?

I was there, and he was also in attendance:

https://www.goiam.org/news/iam-members-protest-unfair-treatment-by-us-airways/

Josh

I’m actually not much of a people person Josh. Besides I really need a good (honest) reason to want to meet someone.

If you’re not part of the Airline or either one of the Unions why would we need to meet?

 

[WeAAsles]

We have a contract because 2 unions stuck together. Dont let the iam off the hook. They should be picketing because all of us need to advance further.
The reason for the stall is politics. After June, things will move. Until then, its politically incorrect for any iam boss to picket with twu cuz they created the narrative that the twu is the enemy cuz it wants to slash our benefits. Many lus bought that. I work with 1200 solid twu members in ord and they are strong union and would love our healthcare. The enemy is management.

“IAM members were joined by Transport Workers Union (TWU) members who perform similar jobs at pre-merger American Airlines. They informed passengers about the dire and deteriorating state of labor relations at the airline.

“[‘New’ American Airlines CEO] Doug Parker wants the flying public, shareholders, Wall Street and anyone else who will listen that all is going well with the merger of US Airways and American Airlines, and that is simply not true,” said IAM District 141 President Rich Delaney.

“The TWU and IAM are partners,” said TWU President Harry Lombardo. “We will not sit idly by as management tries to drive a wedge between workers.”

 

[Tim Nelson]

Any activity that deals with negotiations should be done only if both sides agree and can move ahead together.

I know your point of view comes with a political tinge and makes the opinion a bit biased.

Fair enough NYer, but the same could be said for you, yes? Are you suggesting that the TWU leadership under Alex didn't ask Sito to join in on the pickets? There is a narrative, espoused by Prez and others, that they had no idea of the picketing plans of the TWU. But after 6 months of picketing, don't you think the IAM is well aware and should join in? I mean, egos have to be set aside, right? I didn't need an invitation to attend and neither does any IAM leader.

But, both sides need to agree when it comes to these things, for it to have maximum effect. I, for one, think the TWU is doing the right thing by picketing, they are just outnumbered 2-1 while the IAM bosses stand down with management.

 

[NYer]

Fair enough NYer, but the same could be said for you, yes? Are you suggesting that the TWU leadership under Alex didn't ask Sito to join in on the pickets? There is a narrative, espoused by Prez and others, that they had no idea of the picketing plans of the TWU. But after 6 months of picketing, don't you think the IAM is well aware and should join in? I mean, egos have to be set aside, right? I didn't need an invitation to attend and neither does any IAM leader.

But, both sides need to agree when it comes to these things, for it to have maximum effect. I, for one, think the TWU is doing the right thing by picketing, they are just outnumbered 2-1 while the IAM bosses stand down with management.

Not really.

Both unions agreed to the Association and the documents within that agreement has language about them both agreeing to a TA, for example.

If the two sides will work independently on negotiations, which is the one thing the Association was created to avoid, what are the chances either group will achieve their goals.

I've maintained it was an error for the TWU not to get together with the IAM in November 2014 and reconcile each CBA to create a common strategy for each to pursue their goals.

As it stood, the two unions didn't get together until about June/July of 2015 (after the Association was certified that May) and the work which should, or could, have been done by that time hadn't even started.

In December 2015, the Association positions was released and one of the bullet points, for example, was to adopt IAM medical insurance language, with enhancements. Today, there are some TWU Members that want the IAM to just accept the LAA medical so they can get their enhancements in items such as holidays, sick time, Ect. But that wasn't the agreement from the published positions.

After that initial release of the positions there has been very little information shared and it seems at some point, maybe because of Member frustrations about the pace of the talks, it seems some of those agreed to points are being ignored by one side of the other. Why?

In reality, it was agreed the Association would pursue the IAM medical, as unlikely as that may be. The question then becomes, how long should that fight take before moving on?

Because this process wasn't structured from the beginning, it seems that planning wasn't done and we're now working on a day to day plan. It's too be point where the IAM is accused of purposefully stalling while they're pursuing the language the TWU and IAM agreed to pursue.

That's happening because of a lack of information.

 

[WeAAsles]

Fair enough NYer, but the same could be said for you, yes? Are you suggesting that the TWU leadership under Alex didn't ask Sito to join in on the pickets? There is a narrative, espoused by Prez and others, that they had no idea of the picketing plans of the TWU. But after 6 months of picketing, don't you think the IAM is well aware and should join in? I mean, egos have to be set aside, right? I didn't need an invitation to attend and neither does any IAM leader.

But, both sides need to agree when it comes to these things, for it to have maximum effect. I, for one, think the TWU is doing the right thing by picketing, they are just outnumbered 2-1 while the IAM bosses stand down with management.

Lots of speculations and assumptions on Forums it seems on what’s going on in the Executive talks and how each side is actually getting along for real.

It’s actually quite amusing to watch some of those idle minds wander off in thought (Always negative of course)

At the end of the day just too many conspiracies to actually be real if you ask me. Too bad most on here don’t listen to or believe the people that are in the talks and there. Yes very very funny all the malarkey.

 

[737823]

Why can’t the IAM man up and step aside?

The TWU ultimately did after USAIR/America West

The TWU manned up after AFA-CWA came in at Frontier.



The IAM engaged in a bitter and costly run-off with AFA-CWA at UA

The IAM didn’t walk away without a fight over seniority and representation at WN with the TWU after AirTran

The IAM left AA with the mess of TWA which continues to be a costly hindrance on the company to this day and will for decades to come.


They’re clearly pivoting their organization to courting low wage workers and providing low value CBAs and “representation” why not step aside and let the TWU who is well established have this round at AA?

Josh

 

[737823]

Tim:
As I understand it from reading the IAM Journal there were ACards collected at McGee and UGE which the company “voluntarily” recognized. What was the ratification process for those CBAs?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim:
As I understand it from reading the IAM Journal there were ACards collected at McGee and UGE which the company “voluntarily” recognized. What was the ratification process for those CBAs?

Josh

Isn’t this all UAL related? Is anyone paying any attention to this here even though you and Tim keep pumping this up?

What’s the agenda with cluttering this thread here with this?