JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

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No agenda, but what happens at AS or UA has...implications AA doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

Josh


That's a point most ignore or don't consider. As we look towards changes in other CBA's for comparisons in our negotiations, like compensation, the Company would do the same on items that benefit them, like Scope or Medical expenses. That is one of the challenges in a negotiation setting which is a give and take process.

In a Section 6 scenario, the NMB will do the same comparisons from within the airline industry but also with industry in general. They will then try to persuade us there is no scenario in which whatever we may be looking for will be achieved. The NMB is there to get the parties to a deal nothing further.

To see where we may end up or at least have an idea what the Company may be seeking is to be aware what is happening at other airlines and in the country. Ignoring all that just makes the process longer and more frustrating.

If the IAM is holding out in giving in on the Medical, then they are doing a good service to their Members as they try to gain the most they can in other areas or prevent from other changes taking place, such as in Scope.
 
Gotta agree with you there, American Airlines exists in name only but that’s no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention for the past six years now.

There are still some LAA crews that remember the better days, and I will grant you the ex-TW crews genuinely deliver very good polished service upfront when in their uniforms.

Josh


I could care less at the end of the day what the BOD chose to name the Airline enterprise. They could have called it Parker Air and I still would be here. Although the “emotions” on that name change would have been tremendous (And hilarious quite honestly)

BTW all the people who work for the Airline are nothing more than interchangeable parts at the end of the day. From Parker to me, to the kid that walks in the door tomorrow. We all come, we all go.
 
I could care less at the end of the day what the BOD chose to name the Airline enterprise. They could have called it Parker Air and I still would be here. Although the “emotions” on that name change would have been tremendous (And hilarious quite honestly)

BTW all the people who work for the Airline are nothing more than interchangeable parts at the end of the day. From Parker to me, to the kid that walks in the door tomorrow. We all come, we all go.

Weez you are here/would stay expressly because you *don’t* have career mobility and are tied in with your seniority. Such that it would, candidly, likely be difficult for you to obtain another job that affords you the same flexibility, total compensation and other elements that keep you showing up each day.

Although I suspect other reasons like relationships you’ve built with colleagues over the years keeps you here.

But you raise an interesting point if that is indeed your attitude and you think people at all levels in this company are replaceable and no one is indispensable. You realize many leading global and consistently profitable airlines outsource all or substantially all ground handling, including at their main hubs? I’m talking operators like Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa and Virgin Atlantic. Are you suggesting to management and consultants, indirectly, AA should do the same?

Josh
 
Weez you are here/would stay expressly because you *don’t* have career mobility and are tied in with your seniority. Such that it would, candidly, likely be difficult for you to obtain another job that affords you the same flexibility, total compensation and other elements that keep you showing up each day.

Although I suspect other reasons like relationships you’ve built with colleagues over the years keeps you here.

But you raise an interesting point if that is indeed your attitude and you think people at all levels in this company are replaceable and no one is indispensable. You realize many leading global and consistently profitable airlines outsource all or substantially all ground handling, including at their main hubs? I’m talking operators like Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa and Virgin Atlantic. Are you suggesting to management and consultants, indirectly, AA should do the same?

Josh


I’m here at AA because I don’t have the formal education to go elsewhere and sustain or command what I’m earning currently. Nothing more, nothing less. The schedules and flexibility in the industry are actually quite challenging at times. The relationships have no bearing whatsoever either.

Your second paragraph. Incorrect. I’m not suggesting that at all even though you are attempting to propel me into a conversation of that nature. You can take the old adage though if it makes you comfortable, “You get what you pay for”

To make it simple I was merely pointing out that from the first day of the history of the name (AA) not one single individual who worked for it is living any longer. The entity moved on and will continue to move on with or without any of us/me iregardless of all the day to day minutiae.
 
Thanks again Tim, I was just summarizing how the communications department has tried to pass this off. And unfortunately many labor people who don’t know the history with Alaska SEA in 2005 will read this and think the IAM is being forward thinking:

https://www.goiam.org/news/iam-journal/iam-journal-winter-2017-2018/

see p. 16 for the UGE and McGee article

On the point of organizing low wage workers and outfits like these I can see both sides of the issue. On one hand, from an organized labor perspective there is real value in having people engaged with your movement and at least on paper, some protection that a CBA can legally provide. But when outfits like these get pushed instead of getting good agreements at the parent carrier it becomes area of concern. So I agree it’s a complicated issue but these hollow 20 page CBAs rife with “at the discretion of management” or “in accordance with company policies” is a joke. I mean why benchmark to an ACA silver plan? Anyone making the kind of money these agreements will provide would anyway qualify for significant subsidies under the ACA or most likely Medicaid if they’re based in one of the states that have expanded coverage to 133% of the federal poverty line. Medicaid would provide superior coverage as the people would owe nothing out of pocket or deal with the administrative challenges of health insurance and the marketplace.

Josh
when a union signs pink dog contracts (Sweethearts) and companies beg to hand them over their employees, something is wrong with that. There is no benefit for the SEA McGee workers who won't be making the $15.65 this January under the ordinance that they would have received under Menzies. $13 in SEA and no health care and no retirement is simply not worth the dues. Why would it be?

But, from my IAM perspective, things get more complicated because there is no 'conflict of interest' bylaw in the constitution that prohibits the IAM (unlike other unions) from cannibalizing their own IAM members with other IAM members in a race to the bottom. It happened at Alaska and it will certainly happen at United now and it will be complete in 2024 when United Airlines has ZERO commitment to ANY IAM JOB, including ORD, DEN, ANYWHERE. Yet we have ignorant union leaders in our district that simply don't care and we have ignorant union members who don't care and continue to vote for the enemy, i.e., Sito.

That said, my Grand Lodge ticket is pretty powerful with solid members on it and our goal is to get 400 local nominations that we hope translate into over 200 endorsements. Our platform specifically has a "conflict of interest" article that we are proposing to the delegates in the special Grand Lodge convention next June. And we already started organizing Boeing South Carolina in anticipation of winning in April. It's exciting.
 
Mouthpiece.

This individual (firm) keeps detailed files and trots them out with impunity. My guess is a representative of Ford and Harrison that works hand in glove with Tim? Tim did get caught by me here that one time putting out a F&M internal E Mail before he took it down quickly when I caught him so.

I think it’s irrelevant anyway because the traffic they need just doesn’t exist here anymore with all the massive industry wage increases. Essentially people right now have moved on from caring about this stuff they’re trying to sell. And Tim is lieing through his teeth on the 2024 UAL totality Ramp loss BTW. Complete fake news when you actually read the language.

The World is full of pretty manipulative individuals though unfortunately.
Lol. Well, while I did meet Josh at ORD, I have no idea who he works for. You are completely wrong on the United LOA 9. The sad thing about it is that it was sold to the IAM members as an added protection since it extends the work of all IAM members 3 additional years past the amendable date. When I brought out the fact that the Cinderella date means that management no longer will have a commitment for ONE single job after 2024, Klemm and the officers said "Oh, we will have another contract signed before then," Yea right. What CEO will sign another contract and give up that anti union LOA 9 unless it's a race to the bottom?

I really don't know how you can sit back and say that this letter is a good thing??? Puzzling indeed!
 
Lol. Well, while I did meet Josh at ORD, I have no idea who he works for. You are completely wrong on the United LOA 9. The sad thing about it is that it was sold to the IAM members as an added protection since it extends the work of all IAM members 3 additional years past the amendable date. When I brought out the fact that the Cinderella date means that management no longer will have a commitment for ONE single job after 2024, Klemm and the officers said "Oh, we will have another contract signed before then," Yea right. What CEO will sign another contract and give up that anti union LOA 9 unless it's a race to the bottom?

I really don't know how you can sit back and say that this letter is a good thing??? Puzzling indeed!


I read LOA 9. I read when they got the TA. I supported that TA on here. The TA was far better than what they originally had and you ABSOLUTELY know that. You actually prided yourself on claiming you got them the horrible contract prior through your advocacy.

LOA 9 is NOT every Station in their system AND you’re trying to sell your BS in the wrong forum anyway. It’s UAL Members you need to focus on. I suggest you start another exclusive FB Group page for yourself and your agendas.
 
Tim although this is a UAL issue or conversation just because I’m sick of you/Josh badgering this nonsense here in this thread, let’s see if we can put a lid on it once and for all (here)

Note the last sentence in LOA 9 and then note the actual language of Stations. Please inform if you are still confused?

015DA4A9-E1F5-4BA8-9CFC-170DB6FF7D7D.jpeg A27EC24B-A396-45A3-B9E6-1D67B46B28B4.jpeg
 
I’m here at AA because I don’t have the formal education to go elsewhere and sustain or command what I’m earning currently. Nothing more, nothing less. The schedules and flexibility in the industry are actually quite challenging at times. The relationships have no bearing whatsoever either.

Your second paragraph. Incorrect. I’m not suggesting that at all even though you are attempting to propel me into a conversation of that nature. You can take the old adage though if it makes you comfortable, “You get what you pay for”

To make it simple I was merely pointing out that from the first day of the history of the name (AA) not one single individual who worked for it is living any longer. The entity moved on and will continue to move on with or without any of us/me iregardless of all the day to day minutiae.

So for the most part we are in agreement, and it seems you didn’t take any I also didn’t intend any disrespect I was just trying to be real here with you.

But it would be nice and I’m sure the company would appreciate more of a sense of comrade but I guess that’s more of a DFW thing than BOS/MIA/LGA/etc.

It just seems bizarre because you always are quick to admit how grateful you are for your 20+ years and rewarding career at AA I would think that would translate into some loyalty to and identity with the company mission and objectives.

Josh
 
the grievance was settled about 3 yrs ago in my favor

thx for the ly info

Glad to hear it got resolved in your favor.

It still is outrageous it took that long. I can understand the LUS management and their well known discontempt for employees but the bargaining agent you pay should better represented your interests and gotten a more timely resolution.

Josh
 
in fact I did get a new car as a way to celebrate :) the union did dam good job representing me it should never have taken as long as it did but in the end I never give up the good fight
 
So for the most part we are in agreement, and it seems you didn’t take any I also didn’t intend any disrespect I was just trying to be real here with you.

But it would be nice and I’m sure the company would appreciate more of a sense of comrade but I guess that’s more of a DFW thing than BOS/MIA/LGA/etc.

It just seems bizarre because you always are quick to admit how grateful you are for your 20+ years and rewarding career at AA I would think that would translate into some loyalty to and identity with the company mission and objectives.

Josh


Company missions and objectives are always in a state of flux and while I think the new written intentions are good I remain mindful and cautious.

And frankly though while they have made again great strides in moving forward I simply can’t give them a full embrace until they conclude to a satisfactory end all of our JCBA talks both in Fleet and Maintenance.

Until then I’m just not very comfortable waving around the Pom Pom’s just yet.
 
in fact I did get a new car as a way to celebrate :) the union did dam good job representing me it should never have taken as long as it did but in the end I never give up the good fight

Nice Robbed. What vehicle did you get?

I just picked up a new Chevrolet Bolt EV all electric-no gas. It is legitimately my first GM product and UAW built vehicle.

Josh
 
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