JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

...As it should be...

As it is at the largest Widget hub.

Josh

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

Yea, Lets calm down a little in what I stated about big language changes. I didn't say these changes were going to be negative. Most will be positive. As we have been pretty successful in taking the best language out of each contract. To date we have 32 articles that have a t/a. We will have right around 40 ( give or take a couple ) when we are finished. And yes, so far, I can say that i believe all 32 articles are better than in today's contracts. But it is going to take some educating, because some things will change for one side or the other, and I'm sure not everyone will like the changes. But hopefully most will.
And to address it being a big issue in the association putting two contracts together, I hope everyone out there realizes that this would have had to be done, even if the association hadn't been formed. There would have been TWU and IAM people in the room bringing two contracts together and discussing which articles are better. Probably only difference would have been that the IAM would not have had equal numbers at the table as we do now. But the combining of the two contracts would have been done regardless. And yes that does take awhile, but that is done. It's just what we can get out of the company now that is the issue. It has to be good enough that we think our members would want to vote for it, or why would we bring it out.

When are you up for new Elections.

 

[WeAAsles]

AA Headquarters this Thursday.

October 22, 2017

To the TWU Membership,

The permit has been issued and we are taking our fight to American Airlines Headquarters, on October 26. We are going to make sure that Doug Parker and Robert Isom get the message, it’s time for them to step up and get this contract done!

Membership frustration has grown to the boiling point. as we enter the airlines busiest season. As member's we can no longer sit idly by through another holiday season, while American Airlines drags their feet getting the JCBA negotiated. We must take a stand. by showing up in full force at Headquarters to demand what we were promised! As American Airlines continues to profit from our labor, we have a right to the contract that Doug Parker and Robert Isom promised, not more concessionary proposals.

If Doug Parker & Robert Isom want to gain employee trust. then they must take their own leap of faith and deliver to the membership what they promised; "the best contract in the industry." But Doug Parker & Robert Isom are now trying to change their narrative to "the best pay in the industry" and that is unacceptable! On Thursday our member's voices will be heard; when we show up and make sure Doug Parker and Robert Isom hear that we are not willing to acquiesce into the leadership's new narrative and accept anything less than the best contract in the industry. Simply put, we cannot allow Doug Parker and Robert Isom to weasel out on the promise they made to us as employees; we must demand that they deliver the best contract in the industry - now.

The only excuse for not being in attendance on Thursday is that you are at work. And, if you are at work then you too have the opportunity to show unity by wearing a union shirt, hat, pin or anything that identifies you as a union member. It's time to send a loud and clear message to both Doug Parker and Robert Isom, that the pace of negotiations is unacceptable and must be changed immediately: As members we are all tired of the lack of progress and length between negotiating sessions; let’s get a deal done that makes American great again and keeps our jobs in the United States.
:
Fraternally,

 

[737823]

Won’t the delegates be at the AFL-CIO convention all this week? Maybe they won’t be able to attend.

Josh

 

[swamt]

When are you up for new Elections.

The back peddling begins as we can see. (not you Free)

 

[WeAAsles]

Won’t the delegates be at the AFL-CIO convention all this week? Maybe they won’t be able to attend.

Josh

Don’t worry Josh they’ll be plenty of people there. And at the next one and the next one and the next one and the next one. However many it takes for Parker and his Negotiators to get serious and finish this up.

 

[swamt]

Yea, Lets calm down a little in what I stated about big language changes. I didn't say these changes were going to be negative. Most will be positive. As we have been pretty successful in taking the best language out of each contract. To date we have 32 articles that have a t/a. We will have right around 40 ( give or take a couple ) when we are finished. And yes, so far, I can say that i believe all 32 articles are better than in today's contracts. But it is going to take some educating, because some things will change for one side or the other, and I'm sure not everyone will like the changes. But hopefully most will.
And to address it being a big issue in the association putting two contracts together, I hope everyone out there realizes that this would have had to be done, even if the association hadn't been formed. There would have been TWU and IAM people in the room bringing two contracts together and discussing which articles are better. Probably only difference would have been that the IAM would not have had equal numbers at the table as we do now. But the combining of the two contracts would have been done regardless. And yes that does take awhile, but that is done. It's just what we can get out of the company now that is the issue. It has to be good enough that we think our members would want to vote for it, or why would we bring it out.

So then, are you stating there will be no negatives then? If it goes to one side or the other, which YOU said it will in certain cases, then the members of each union will in fact consider the changes a negative as they are currently use to how they are working in their current contracts now. How the hell can you say it will be nothing negative? Take the seniority issues as an example CB. If it goes AA's way the US side will take it as a negative. If it goes the US way, it will be taken as a negative on the AA side. You (should) know this. And you also know there are many, many more other differences in the contracts that counter each other as you said you are dealing with. And they are all going to have to be delt with.
CB I actually praise you for coming on here and trying to get the AA'ers the info they need and answering their questions for them. But, something needs to be done about the TWU being so dam quiet on the info. otherwise you guys will get complete chaos once your T/A is revealed, IF, you even get to a T/A...

 

[charlie Brown]

So then, are you stating there will be no negatives then? If it goes to one side or the other, which YOU said it will in certain cases, then the members of each union will in fact consider the changes a negative as they are currently use to how they are working in their current contracts now. How the hell can you say it will be nothing negative? Take the seniority issues as an example CB. If it goes AA's way the US side will take it as a negative. If it goes the US way, it will be taken as a negative on the AA side. You (should) know this. And you also know there are many, many more other differences in the contracts that counter each other as you said you are dealing with. And they are all going to have to be delt with.
CB I actually praise you for coming on here and trying to get the AA'ers the info they need and answering their questions for them. But, something needs to be done about the TWU being so dam quiet on the info. otherwise you guys will get complete chaos once your T/A is revealed, IF, you even get to a T/A...

Why do you quote my post and then try to ignore part of it. Go back and read it. I said that it would mostly be positive. But then I did say that some will not like the language changes. Does that sound like I'm saying there will be no negatives. Just to be perfectly clear here swamt, I am not saying you won't have some think that the language changes aren't negative. Some will. But you could have the leading industry contract x 10 and still have some that think it's negative. I was just trying to clarify earlier that some of the language changes people will like. IF we changed the twu language of 5 Holidays and holiday pay only if your working to 10 Holidays and holiday pay whether you work it or not, would that be positive to everyone? It should be, but I'm sure there is someone out there would find something to be pissed about with it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Why do you quote my post and then try to ignore part of it. Go back and read it. I said that it would mostly be positive. But then I did say that some will not like the language changes. Does that sound like I'm saying there will be no negatives. Just to be perfectly clear here swamt, I am not saying you won't have some think that the language changes aren't negative. Some will. But you could have the leading industry contract x 10 and still have some that think it's negative. I was just trying to clarify earlier that some of the language changes people will like. IF we changed the twu language of 5 Holidays and holiday pay only if your working to 10 Holidays and holiday pay whether you work it or not, would that be positive to everyone? It should be, but I'm sure there is someone out there would find something to be pissed about with it.

Hey wait a minute here. I’m working that holiday and you’re saying someone who’s not is going to get paid on their first day back anyway?

Damn now I’m pissed.

(Get ready CB swamt will twist this to a concession now watch)

 

[B737 driver]

Hey wait a minute here. I’m working that holiday and you’re saying someone who’s not is going to get paid on their first day back anyway?

Damn now I’m pissed.

(Get ready CB swamt will twist this to a concession now watch)

Both of you just have to ask him, where is SWA T/A, oh that's right we don't have one! But by golly , we have two road shows one from the union saying why we can't have one. And one from the company what they are offering!

 

[Traymark]

I had to address this matter as you have raised the point twice in the last couple of days. As while I am fairly conservative politically, I find many of these past HSAs "reforms" to be little more than GOP gimmicks as much of the healthcare cost crisis are related to chronic conditions requiring frequent physician visits or expensive acute events.

Sure, a single guy in reasonably good health or a relatively well-heeled household which could handle large out-of-pocket expenses, then an HSA makes a lot of sense. However, I disagree with your blanket advice of "each of you to look into maxing out an HSA" as individual and family circumstances over a large segment of the population will be vastly different.

Explain to me the "gimmick" part about being able to save, collect interest and then spend the money tax free.

The creation of HSA's is 100% better than a world that does not allow this, regardless of your family circumstances.

Some families may not be able to max out an HSA, but you know what, there's never a bad time to start good saving habits, even if it's a small percentage of your income.

I brought this up because of all the machinations over LAA health insurance.
You know what, it isn't bad if you use the tools they give you to save on health costs.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[swamt]

Why do you quote my post and then try to ignore part of it. Go back and read it. I said that it would mostly be positive. But then I did say that some will not like the language changes. Does that sound like I'm saying there will be no negatives. Just to be perfectly clear here swamt, I am not saying you won't have some think that the language changes aren't negative. Some will. But you could have the leading industry contract x 10 and still have some that think it's negative. I was just trying to clarify earlier that some of the language changes people will like. IF we changed the twu language of 5 Holidays and holiday pay only if your working to 10 Holidays and holiday pay whether you work it or not, would that be positive to everyone? It should be, but I'm sure there is someone out there would find something to be pissed about with it.

I read it all. And your right I did take the part where you said some won't like it as a negative. The negatives I am referring to are the biggies like seniority integration between the two unions, and mainly the differences of how each side recognizes crew chiefs/leads seniority when mechanics leave the floor into that group. The two sides are basically opposite of each other, if one side is chosen it would be a negative to the other side, would it not? Reason being, if it does go one way or the other, then one of the two sides will endure drastic changes that would where they fall on the list. Just one of the many, as pointed out already, that will have to get worked out one way or the other, TWU way or IAM way of doing it.
I also understand you statements that not all will be happy no matter what. I live it too. And your Holiday example was a great one, we have those hear as well. Now I know you may not want to hear this part but, this asso. getting ram rodded down the memberships throats was not democratic at all, and I think you know this. However, the IAM would have been gone if there was a vote held between the TWU and the IAM, we all know that just because of the mere numbers differences in membership sizes. This is why the IAM ram rodded this asso. and got the TWU "somehow" to agree to do it. They still should have had a membership vote, period. The IAM knew they were gone with a vote, therefore, their only survival is too drum up this asso. BS and of course force upon the membership.
Now, hasn't it also been said by the TWU/IAM and this asso. that will get, as promised an industry leading contract? It has been quoted and said during the video updates from 591 and GP himself, even the company has said it. I know everyone shoots for the ILC when they are up to bat, and we all know they may get leaped over when another airlines groups goes into their nego. talks, but I will assure you this, and no this is not a threat sir. If this asso. does not produce a true ILC contract thru-out the contract the AA membership will in fact try another attempt at a card drive to have the asso. removed. I hope you negotiators are successful to get to an ILC for your members, and if you are you deserve the cudos, but I honestly do not expect an ILC right out of the BK contract, but I do hope you guys are successful at returning everything that was lost in 2003. If you do I will be the first on here to congratulate you and your peers at the table and I will in fact eat crow for some time.
As a nego at the table do you feel something will get done in 2018? Good luck to you guys and thank you for taking the time to answer in a professional and respectful manner sir.

 

[NYer]

So then, are you stating there will be no negatives then? If it goes to one side or the other, which YOU said it will in certain cases, then the members of each union will in fact consider the changes a negative as they are currently use to how they are working in their current contracts now. How the hell can you say it will be nothing negative? Take the seniority issues as an example CB. If it goes AA's way the US side will take it as a negative. If it goes the US way, it will be taken as a negative on the AA side. You (should) know this. And you also know there are many, many more other differences in the contracts that counter each other as you said you are dealing with. And they are all going to have to be delt with.
CB I actually praise you for coming on here and trying to get the AA'ers the info they need and answering their questions for them. But, something needs to be done about the TWU being so dam quiet on the info. otherwise you guys will get complete chaos once your T/A is revealed, IF, you even get to a T/A...

Agree.

The fact the Members will need to ingest all these changes, and yes there will be roadshows, it will be very challenging to overcome the initial sentiment of negativity. That sentiment may be emotionally driven, but it could be tempered if only the information was flowing rather than being practically non-existent.

Change is often seen as a negative just because it is different. The concern is being able to breakthrough with the information in a manner it will be considered on its merits and not immediately discounted because it is different than what they know.

 

[NYer]

Why do you quote my post and then try to ignore part of it. Go back and read it. I said that it would mostly be positive. But then I did say that some will not like the language changes. Does that sound like I'm saying there will be no negatives. Just to be perfectly clear here swamt, I am not saying you won't have some think that the language changes aren't negative. Some will. But you could have the leading industry contract x 10 and still have some that think it's negative. I was just trying to clarify earlier that some of the language changes people will like. IF we changed the twu language of 5 Holidays and holiday pay only if your working to 10 Holidays and holiday pay whether you work it or not, would that be positive to everyone? It should be, but I'm sure there is someone out there would find something to be pissed about with it.

Individual items such as the low hanging fruit of holidays is easy to see as a positive. However, the totality of the JCBA and the abundant changes within the already agreed TA is something wholly different. As a standalone item, most would embrace the holiday scenario you shared, but the JCBA encompasses much more and the totality of that is what will be considered.

That assessment becomes much more difficult when it is thrust upon us in one document dump. It may be challenging to overcome the initial negativity of those changes some didn't even consider would be taking place.