JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Thank you W,
Why is there only one % number for LAA. We have 3 plans to choose from. Are they all the same % cost?
I don't think they are as with the Core plan, I know for fact my costs will be hella less than the Value plan, given my usual health insurance usage per year.


Edit to add; I agree with your above post^^^

People are ingrained when they have something that NO ONE is going to take it away from them no matter what someone may offer for the trade.

Anyway if you noticed they keep raising the cost on that Value Plan. And when you do all the math that plan is more expensive overall than the Standard plan anyway.

Not saying I’ve ever had a perfect grip on how exactly it works but AA is self insured and pays medical insurers to administer their plans costs and pay providers. The proof of that if anyone was paying attention was a few years ago when the new AA came out and said that they would cap payments to providers who tried to overcharge them.

And they’ve also tried to get us to take more responsibility to help them bring costs down which they “could” in turn share with us if we would just pitch in. (We don’t)

So costs will keep going up because individually we’re looking for the scam. The Dentist that passes all the costs back to the Company (Us) and the Hearing Aid Doctor who gives us Free Hearing Aids and an I Phone to boot (Yea no one pays that either)

And this ongoing debate every time we get an update? We’re our own worst enemies always applies. (Corporate greed, Human greed, same chit)

Edit to add: Maybe all these people who freak out about it so much are morbidly obese and super sickly? I don’t know?

 

[Traymark]

And they’ve also tried to get us to take more responsibility to help them bring costs down which they “could” in turn share with us if we would just pitch in. (We don’t)

Edit to add: Maybe all these people who freak out about it so much are morbidly obese and super sickly? I don’t know?

Both of these are prescient.
The very best thing each of us can do for our health insurance cost is stay in shape.
Lose the gut, don't smoke, don't drink excessively , don't abuse drugs, stop eating crappy fast food and eat good balanced meals. Workout at least 3-5 times a week for 30-60 minutes.


If you're in good health on the Core plan, your health costs are diddly.
With the advent of HSA's the landscape is quickly changing. I would urge each of you to look into maxing out an HSA if you can. Besides living as healthy as you can, down the road, this is the best thing you can do for your future health care costs.

 

[swamt]

I can only explain it this way. Take the overtime article for instance. Once the IAM and TWU groups hash it out about a particular article, and some articles take a very long time to do that. But once the association comes together and agree with way your going, you then present it to the company and the company gives a proposal of just the opposite back to you. Like where we would adopt the twu language, the company would want to adopt IAM. And where we would want to adopt the IAM, the company would go twu language. Well then it basically puts the IAM and twu back to square one in what each side must have and what we can achieve from the company. This can be, and obviously has been very time consuming. It's basically two sets of negotiatiins going on at one time. The association negotiates among the two sides first, then once you've reached an agreement with the two sides, you then have to go through the company.

I said this in the very beginning. So the two unions have to nego and agree on something before presenting it to the company (at the table) and then the co. returns it to the nc of the exact opposite? This will take longer than 2018.

There is going to be big language changes for both sides. Can't bring two contracts together without changing a lot of the language one way or another. But it's going to be on both sides. Explaining this t/a to the membership prior to a vote, is going to be huge.

There is going to be huge language changes, and as you said, for both sides. Which is directly why, as you stated, that it takes so long for the two unions to agree on something to pass to the company. The two sides are only gonna want what their contract says, hence the long dragged out in fighting about who's language to represent to the company. Anyone at the table SHOULD be fighting for the best of both contracts only. But as you have stated yourself there will be negatives to both sides. I now don't think it's the co. just stalling, I think it's partly to do with the holidays coming up as well as the asso. cannot agree one way or the other to make a presentation to the company. What a freakin nightmare.

Oh I can't wait for that. From Facebook to Airline Forums to Breakrooms it's gonna be ugly.

Steve, it will get real ugly when it all comes out. Like I have said, they will say, here's the T/A guys and BAM!!! This is when the membership will get blind sided on what all the huge changes will be. And, as CB has indicated, there will be huge changes to both sides and not good changes, "hence" the non-communications on at least the TWU side, as he claims they are fully updating the IAM side which is why they are so quiet, it will be an eye opener when the time comes and the asso. will have to deal with an irate membership for keeping the TWU'ers out of the communications in fear of all the concessions fixing to hit them, it will get ugly as you said, mark my words.

In my opinion is going to be a larger task since the Members aren't being conditioned to expect changes and this JCBA will have monumental changes. Could argue they will have more changes that what most would be able to ingest, retain, consider and evaluate without an emotional twinge.

The work on expectations should have stated and been part of this entire process.

I agree with you here 100%. As CB has posted that he and other IAM'ers are updating their IAM memberships but it appears that the TWU side is NOT, and why is that??? Expect some chaos when you guys finally do get the whole picture.

Again
Can't answer to why the twu side has not been briefed or educated on the issues. We have been instructed on the IAM side to get to our stations and break rooms and inform our members. I'm sure some will say they don't know anything. But I think for the most part we have done a pretty good job on the IAM side. We should all be using the time we aren't in negotions, to be in our stations and educating our members on the issues. But it's never enough. We always need to do more.

CB, do you have any idea WHY the TWU is not getting the info out to the membership as well as the IAM side is? Could it very well be that the changes in contract language will be leaner at a higher % towards the IAM'ers contract languages? Very glad to see you tell the guys here that the IAM is doing their part as far as communicating the differences and the changes coming to the membership, that way this TWU membership knows where to lay the blame when they all get blind sided with the changes in a T/A that comes BAM, that quick to them front and center. There has to be a very negative reason why the TWU is being so quiet. It's coming guys, you better get prepared.

hence why the iam should have and still should concede. contract 2021 at this rate!

I agree with your new date of 2021 for a JCBA, especially after what the negotiators are posting here. Too many internal indifferences within the two completely different contracts. I said this from the very beginning when they said there was going to be an asso. combined by the two unions. You guys have only been at it for 2 years, expect at least another 3, with or with out going into sec 6 nego's. I would be willing to bet the changes are so negative for the TWU side that they really do go the sec 6 route not necessarily the IAM side to stall out the changes.
You guys are in a huge mess and it will take a very long time to JCBA in my opinion.

 

[WeAAsles]

I said this in the very beginning. So the two unions have to nego and agree on something before presenting it to the company (at the table) and then the co. returns it to the nc of the exact opposite? This will take longer than 2018.


There is going to be huge language changes, and as you said, for both sides. Which is directly why, as you stated, that it takes so long for the two unions to agree on something to pass to the company. The two sides are only gonna want what their contract says, hence the long dragged out in fighting about who's language to represent to the company. Anyone at the table SHOULD be fighting for the best of both contracts only. But as you have stated yourself there will be negatives to both sides. I now don't think it's the co. just stalling, I think it's partly to do with the holidays coming up as well as the asso. cannot agree one way or the other to make a presentation to the company. What a freakin nightmare.


Steve, it will get real ugly when it all comes out. Like I have said, they will say, here's the T/A guys and BAM!!! This is when the membership will get blind sided on what all the huge changes will be. And, as CB has indicated, there will be huge changes to both sides and not good changes, "hence" the non-communications on at least the TWU side, as he claims they are fully updating the IAM side which is why they are so quiet, it will be an eye opener when the time comes and the asso. will have to deal with an irate membership for keeping the TWU'ers out of the communications in fear of all the concessions fixing to hit them, it will get ugly as you said, mark my words.


I agree with you here 100%. As CB has posted that he and other IAM'ers are updating their IAM memberships but it appears that the TWU side is NOT, and why is that??? Expect some chaos when you guys finally do get the whole picture.


CB, do you have any idea WHY the TWU is not getting the info out to the membership as well as the IAM side is? Could it very well be that the changes in contract language will be leaner at a higher % towards the IAM'ers contract languages? Very glad to see you tell the guys here that the IAM is doing their part as far as communicating the differences and the changes coming to the membership, that way this TWU membership knows where to lay the blame when they all get blind sided with the changes in a T/A that comes BAM, that quick to them front and center. There has to be a very negative reason why the TWU is being so quiet. It's coming guys, you better get prepared.


I agree with your new date of 2021 for a JCBA, especially after what the negotiators are posting here. Too many internal indifferences within the two completely different contracts. I said this from the very beginning when they said there was going to be an asso. combined by the two unions. You guys have only been at it for 2 years, expect at least another 3, with or with out going into sec 6 nego's. I would be willing to bet the changes are so negative for the TWU side that they really do go the sec 6 route not necessarily the IAM side to stall out the changes.
You guys are in a huge mess and it will take a very long time to JCBA in my opinion.

Holy chit? I mean seriously, WTF? LMFAO BIG TIME!!! Dude you’re a complete kook.

 

[B737 driver]

Holy chit? I mean seriously, WTF? LMFAO BIG TIME!!! Dude you’re a complete kook.

I never understood all the interest in where a person doesn't work. That's like someone is working on a car that won't run, because of an electrical problem , and say it's the fuel injection, and walk away.I can't analyse what is going to happen at American Airlines, anymore than you can at SWA!

 

[WeAAsles]

CB or P. Rez if you are floating around out there on this fine Sunday just to counteract the kook directly above who does not work for our Airline.

Did you guys or did you not at one point say that improvements were made on something like over 20 Articles or whatever? Are you still floating along in that area?

Except for both sides having to get used to some language that’s different and not exactly what each side is used to, would you really consider anything putting the entirety of the work completed so far, concessionary?

Last update you’ve now started on the biggie, SCOPE. With SCOPE left and filling in the blanks on monetary items how much would you say by percentage is left?

How many articles completed, how many left to go?

 

[WeAAsles]

I never understood all the interest in where a person doesn't work. That's like someone is working on a car that won't run, because of an electrical problem , and say it's the fuel injection, and walk away.I can't analyse what is going to happen at American Airlines, anymore than you can at SWA!

Precisely driver. Unlike the kook except when I’m having fun messing with him I don’t come onto your page and scream “The British are coming, The British are coming”

I really have no idea what’s going to happen over there in your house? Usually I prefer at the end of the day to think and hope for the best for all of you. Unlike the kook always coming over here to throw rocks. Damn freakin kook.

 

[WeAAsles]

NY Daily News print addition Sunday.

 

[Jester]

If you're in good health on the Core plan, your health costs are diddly.
With the advent of HSA's the landscape is quickly changing. I would urge each of you to look into maxing out an HSA if you can. Besides living as healthy as you can, down the road, this is the best thing you can do for your future health care costs.

I had to address this matter as you have raised the point twice in the last couple of days. As while I am fairly conservative politically, I find many of these past HSAs "reforms" to be little more than GOP gimmicks as much of the healthcare cost crisis are related to chronic conditions requiring frequent physician visits or expensive acute events.

Sure, a single guy in reasonably good health or a relatively well-heeled household which could handle large out-of-pocket expenses, then an HSA makes a lot of sense. However, I disagree with your blanket advice of "each of you to look into maxing out an HSA" as individual and family circumstances over a large segment of the population will be vastly different.

 

[737823]

CB or PREZ:

The IAM has demonstrated its willingness to go around the usual district lodge structure at an incumbent carrier and create a low wage, low benefit outfit with voluntary recognition to collaborate with the company to contain costs while collecting dues. What protections will you champion for the membership and language to protect against this at AA? Specifically I’m referring to McGee (Alaska) and UGE (United).

Josh

 

[737823]

Josh,

LUS pays 7% of total cost of insurance for 80% plan, 14% of 90% plan and 19.4% of 100% plan. PT pays double. We went into negotiations wanting PT to pay the same rate as a FT. DP says AA will never lose money again and that he wants to give us an industry leading CBA. LAA insurance isn't industry leading. I don't find that a hard concept to grasp.

P. Rez

P Rez, point is your people pay well below for what similar coverage costs today. It’s no longer 2002 or 2005. We would be hearing to no end that wages need to reflect the current market rate (had the company not given wage increases outside of the JCBA or section six process), health care is no different. Your CBA is a comprehensive package. I guess you still subscribe to the old America West attitude that it’s ok to have people making near minimum wage, we can kick the can down the road since we have great scope (in reality it would have been hard for the company to find a vendor able to undercut that bargain basement CBA).

Josh

 

[737823]

Wanted to get these percentages back into the conversation.

“LUS pays 7% of total cost of insurance for 80% plan, 14% of 90% plan and 19.4% of 100% plan. PT pays double.”

Thanks to the LAA BK without looking it up again I believe we pay 21% of the total cost.

So what would be a fair price to pay by percentage for IAM, TWU and (gasp) yes AA on these Medical expenditures? (With still giving us great pay, benefits, workrules and SCOPE)

WeAA don’t fret about scope as a senior guy at MIA you know full well you will be ok whatever happens. The TWU scope isn’t so bad when you consider that the 17 stations LAA has staffed are significantly larger than the likes of a BDL, MCI or ONT under the LUS IAM agreement.

I doubt Tim H will allow BOS to be contracted out so whatever happens I know things will work out for the local membership.

Josh

 

[Jester]

I guess you still subscribe to the old America West attitude that it’s ok to have people making near minimum wage, we can kick the can down the road since we have great scope (in reality it would have been hard for the company to find a vendor able to undercut that bargain basement CBA).

I said that many times before when the US guys were screaming to AW not to support the JCBA which had the best scope in the industry, never mind that AW agents were working under worse industry wages too. I made plenty of offers in this forum to trade my vote for their hourly wage, and not surprisingly, there were no takers. Chock Jockey (what ever happened to him?) pointed out the "solidarity" US agents they were demanding while being indifferent to the AW's poverty wages.

Point of fact, you are correct about a contractor being more expensive. For example, a decade ago LAS hub operations at night were filled with scores of regional express flights-- serviced by mainline AW ramp agents and not Piedmont or Mesa agents!

 

[charlie Brown]

CB or P. Rez if you are floating around out there on this fine Sunday just to counteract the kook directly above who does not work for our Airline.

Did you guys or did you not at one point say that improvements were made on something like over 20 Articles or whatever? Are you still floating along in that area?

Except for both sides having to get used to some language that’s different and not exactly what each side is used to, would you really consider anything putting the entirety of the work completed so far, concessionary?

Last update you’ve now started on the biggie, SCOPE. With SCOPE left and filling in the blanks on monetary items how much would you say by percentage is left?

How many articles completed, how many left to go?

Yea, Lets calm down a little in what I stated about big language changes. I didn't say these changes were going to be negative. Most will be positive. As we have been pretty successful in taking the best language out of each contract. To date we have 32 articles that have a t/a. We will have right around 40 ( give or take a couple ) when we are finished. And yes, so far, I can say that i believe all 32 articles are better than in today's contracts. But it is going to take some educating, because some things will change for one side or the other, and I'm sure not everyone will like the changes. But hopefully most will.
And to address it being a big issue in the association putting two contracts together, I hope everyone out there realizes that this would have had to be done, even if the association hadn't been formed. There would have been TWU and IAM people in the room bringing two contracts together and discussing which articles are better. Probably only difference would have been that the IAM would not have had equal numbers at the table as we do now. But the combining of the two contracts would have been done regardless. And yes that does take awhile, but that is done. It's just what we can get out of the company now that is the issue. It has to be good enough that we think our members would want to vote for it, or why would we bring it out.

 

[Kev3188]

For example, a decade ago LAS hub operations at night were filled with scores of regional express flights-- serviced by mainline AW ramp agents and not Piedmont or Mesa agents!

...As it should be...