JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Albert]

Mx is stuck in july. We arent. Therefore the union boss has to reduce to our lowest common denominator so he has to go back to July in the midst of media coverage of picketing. But yes, things are basically wrapped up for fleet. Unfortunately, im stuck in the iampf. Although i wish the july retirement proposal wasnt whacked. Things are shelved until mx plays catchup.

What will the company be contributing per hour to our plan? (get your Magic 8 ball)

 

[Traymark]

Unfortunately, there hasn't been an honest account of what's happening throughout this entire process.

And you would know this to be fact because what, exactly?

 

[WeAAsles]

Mx is stuck in july. We arent. Therefore the union boss has to reduce to our lowest common denominator so he has to go back to July in the midst of media coverage of picketing. But yes, things are basically wrapped up for fleet. Unfortunately, im stuck in the iampf. Although i wish the july retirement proposal wasnt whacked. Things are shelved until mx plays catchup.

Well if it was all this Social Media advocacy that ultimately shot a hole in any thought of the IAMNPF even being offered (officially unconfirmed yet) to us TWU members, I'm sorry Tim.

"If" you're "stuck" in it man oh man are you screwed. You really could have used our help. That drain water whirlpool is starting to twirl.

Listen man all kidding aside. I like you. You're an interesting fellow. When I retire I'll let you caddy for me if you're interested? Better you than some punk kid who eats his boogers when he thinks no ones watching.

 

[NYer]

And you would know this to be fact because what, exactly?

Well, we are told in December of the Executive Committee coming in to "expedite" and finalize the negotiations. That was 9 months ago and it seems it will be another two before they even give a counter to the July comprehensive proposal.

Negotiators told us it was feasible to have a July deal, then a deal by the end of the summer and now there was an update out of CLT to not expect a deal in 2017.

The update from the Association in July stated there good progress being made, now it seems there isn't any progress and the Fleet group will wait until the maintenance group catches up si they're not even meeting in August or September.

We can go back further, if you'd like.

 

[AANOTOK]

If any of you received the "unofficial update", I would say it was indeed disappointing. From what the company stated in that letter and what reality is, wow, do they not get it. This company and it's leadership are crooks and will use every trick in the book to play keep away only to enhance the bank accounts. It truly is worse than pathetic.
Let my also say that in that update, it said how people should take this letter and it's lack of respect for it's workers to unite, to show the company we are one. What I didn't see was in that request to unite was a plea for the IAM to join our TWU brothers and sisters on the picket lines in OUR efforts to show AA we will taking nothing less than an industry leading contract. That I must admit was disappointing.
I know it has been requested that these updates not be shared on social media, so therefore I will not post it, but if anyone wants to read it, PM me and I will send it to you.

 

[Traymark]

Well, we are told in December of the Executive Committee coming in to "expedite" and finalize the negotiations. That was 9 months ago and it seems it will be another two before they even give a counter to the July comprehensive proposal.

Negotiators told us it was feasible to have a July deal, then a deal by the end of the summer and now there was an update out of CLT to not expect a deal in 2017.

The update from the Association in July stated there good progress being made, now it seems there isn't any progress and the Fleet group will wait until the maintenance group catches up si they're not even meeting in August or September.

We can go back further, if you'd like.

Ok, I agree with you on all of that.


An interesting turn of events these last 24/48 hours.

The company now going public with their proposal to basically take the temperature of us peeps. Here's my take away FWIW:
They have heard the message on the IAMPF loud and clear. Advantage LAA
The Contribution/Match is still far too short of where it needs to be.
The Pilots got a 16% Contribution, The FA's got a 9.9% Contribution for anyone over 55 for the duration of the contract. The companies financial position has only increased since these were given to those groups 3 years ago.
The 401K should be a Contribution only more like 12%, anything less is a non starter given the companies current financial position and it's future position with the give backs in scope and health insurance they are asking for.
The pay should be bumped as well, again, given the companies vastly increased financial position now and looking forward with scope and health insurance give backs.

I see folks complaining about the LUS health insurance going to LAA, but I see more folks saying it's not a deal breaker for them. The truth is, it's not a deal breaker, but the company should have to give up more in compensation in pay and 401K enhancements (more than they have proposed here) to get the insurance in place they want.
Anything is for sale at the right price.
I see some folks complaint about the jobs that will eventually go away through attrition, but again, it's not a deal breaker to the vast majority of voters, sorry, but it just isn't. I don't like it , but the majority of voters will vote for a contract that increases their pay, 401K, vacation, holiday's/pay, sick days, et al...

And again, the company should have to give up more in compensation to be able sunset so many jobs.
I know a lot of us don't want to hear that most of their proposal would pass, but it would because a lot guys are just tired of waiting.

It's proposals like this that created OSM's and part time workers.
The reason = the union wanted the dues money, instead letting those jobs go to vendors, they proposed those things so they could basically let the company "contract out" the jobs but still get dues from the "contract workers" who are in the lower levels (PT and OSM's)

Most of us realize this, that's part of why a lot of folks would vote for sunsetting those jobs for more compensation now, those future jobs mean zero to them. I know it's hard to hear, but it's the real's.

Given the massive profits now and looking into the future the company can't ask for more of those "subset" work groups to work for less. They have to increase compensation across the board, but they will always keep trying to increase their future bottom line by sunsetting FT jobs.

 

[Albert]

Well if it was all this Social Media advocacy that ultimately shot a hole in any thought of the IAMNPF even being offered (officially unconfirmed yet) to us TWU members, I'm sorry Tim.

"If" you're "stuck" in it man oh man are you screwed. You really could have used our help. That drain water whirlpool is starting to twirl.

Listen man all kidding aside. I like you. You're an interesting fellow. When I retire I'll let you caddy for me if you're interested? Better you than some punk kid who eats his boogers when he thinks no ones watching.

Spaulding

 

[WeAAsles]

If any of you received the "unofficial update", I would say it was indeed disappointing. From what the company stated in that letter and what reality is, wow, do they not get it. This company and it's leadership are crooks and will use every trick in the book to play keep away only to enhance the bank accounts. It truly is worse than pathetic.
Let my also say that in that update, it said how people should take this letter and it's lack of respect for it's workers to unite, to show the company we are one. What I didn't see was in that request to unite was a plea for the IAM to join our TWU brothers and sisters on the picket lines in OUR efforts to show AA we will taking nothing less than an industry leading contract. That I must admit was disappointing.
I know it has been requested that these updates not be shared on social media, so therefore I will not post it, but if anyone wants to read it, PM me and I will send it to you.

Is that "unofficial update" from someone who is "officially" a part of the Negotiating committee?

I don't want to read another "unofficial update" from some Alfred E Neuman character floating around out there with one or two screws needing to be tightened.

 

[P. REZ]

Update

Where in the hell do I start?

1. TN claims we have a deal. As you can see from the response from SP, hardly. This companies comprehensive proposal had wages falling to at least 3rd highest midway through the JCBA. SP alluded to this in his letter. They base the 3% off DL, UA goes to 30.47 in December and if I remember correctly, we would be around 1% above them.

2. Scope is nowhere close to settled. DL 43 stations, LAA/LUS 40 but not settled. Outsourcing, as the company stated, is still on the table. The company mentioned deicing and catering, there is more on their list that they did NOT mention.

3. Insurance to go to LAA. The company stated that the LUS 100/90/80 plans were unsustainable. That's all I can say is WTF. Be honest and say, my bonuses won't be high enough if I give all LAA employees the LUS insurance plans DP.

4. MX is negotiating non economic issues because they have fallen behind Fleet. Fleet will not be in negotiations until at least October. If MX catches up by then, we will begin the process of negotiations of economic issues together.

Based on this BS attempt by the company to call us out for dragging our feet, I think it's quite clear we are not close as of now. Does that mean we won't get to a JCBA? We will have to see when we meet to negotiate the economics.

P. Rez

 

[Steve Walegir]

Update

Where in the hell do I start?

1. TN claims we have a deal. As you can see from the response from SP, hardly. This companies comprehensive proposal had wages falling to at least 3rd highest midway through the JCBA. SP alluded to this in his letter. They base the 3% off DL, UA goes to 30.47 in December and if I remember correctly, we would be around 1% above them.

2. Scope is nowhere close to settled. DL 43 stations, LAA/LUS 40 but not settled. Outsourcing, as the company stated, is still on the table. The company mentioned deicing and catering, there is more on their list that they did NOT mention.

3. Insurance to go to LAA. The company stated that the LUS 100/90/80 plans were unsustainable. That's all I can say is WTF. Be honest and say, my bonuses won't be high enough if I give all LAA employees the LUS insurance plans DP.

4. MX is negotiating non economic issues because they have fallen behind Fleet. Fleet will not be in negotiations until at least October. If MX catches up by then, we will begin the process of negotiations of economic issues together.

Based on this BS attempt by the company to call us out for dragging our feet, I think it's quite clear we are not close as of now. Does that mean we won't get to a JCBA? We will have to see when we meet to negotiate the economics.

P. Rez

First off thank you for the update. Now if MNTC is behind Fleet, and Fleet seems to have a bag of manure from the company in their hands then if MNTC catches up will the Association have 2 bags of manure? IMO this will drag into 2018 because holidays will be here before you know it and depending on how the company responds to the Oct counter it could drag deep into 2018.
It was nice that Sito published a letter responding to the company's propaganda but in his letter he's calling for a united (paraphrasing) front, can someone please tell him his public support for the TWU informational picketing would have been the Action in Actions speak louder than words. Not bashing but his public support would have shown AA a unified group.

 

[Albert]

Update

Where in the hell do I start?

1. TN claims we have a deal. As you can see from the response from SP, hardly. This companies comprehensive proposal had wages falling to at least 3rd highest midway through the JCBA. SP alluded to this in his letter. They base the 3% off DL, UA goes to 30.47 in December and if I remember correctly, we would be around 1% above them.

2. Scope is nowhere close to settled. DL 43 stations, LAA/LUS 40 but not settled. Outsourcing, as the company stated, is still on the table. The company mentioned deicing and catering, there is more on their list that they did NOT mention.

3. Insurance to go to LAA. The company stated that the LUS 100/90/80 plans were unsustainable. That's all I can say is WTF. Be honest and say, my bonuses won't be high enough if I give all LAA employees the LUS insurance plans DP.

4. MX is negotiating non economic issues because they have fallen behind Fleet. Fleet will not be in negotiations until at least October. If MX catches up by then, we will begin the process of negotiations of economic issues together.

Based on this BS attempt by the company to call us out for dragging our feet, I think it's quite clear we are not close as of now. Does that mean we won't get to a JCBA? We will have to see when we meet to negotiate the economics.

P. Rez

Still down the road we are probably going to have to accept a contract that is worse thane we have now (the LUS side at least) It's got to make you scratch your head.Is the company's proposal just posturing or do they really think it's good?

 

[WeAAsles]

Update

Where in the hell do I start?

1. TN claims we have a deal. As you can see from the response from SP, hardly. This companies comprehensive proposal had wages falling to at least 3rd highest midway through the JCBA. SP alluded to this in his letter. They base the 3% off DL, UA goes to 30.47 in December and if I remember correctly, we would be around 1% above them.

2. Scope is nowhere close to settled. DL 43 stations, LAA/LUS 40 but not settled. Outsourcing, as the company stated, is still on the table. The company mentioned deicing and catering, there is more on their list that they did NOT mention.

3. Insurance to go to LAA. The company stated that the LUS 100/90/80 plans were unsustainable. That's all I can say is WTF. Be honest and say, my bonuses won't be high enough if I give all LAA employees the LUS insurance plans DP.

4. MX is negotiating non economic issues because they have fallen behind Fleet. Fleet will not be in negotiations until at least October. If MX catches up by then, we will begin the process of negotiations of economic issues together.

Based on this BS attempt by the company to call us out for dragging our feet, I think it's quite clear we are not close as of now. Does that mean we won't get to a JCBA? We will have to see when we meet to negotiate the economics.

P. Rez

Lets see if I got this math about right? Delta currently is at $30.15 3% above that comes out to $31.06.

On 12/01/2018 UAL Ramp goes to $31.23

$31.23 - $31.06 = .17

So as far as wages just on year one we would be making .17 less than our UAL counterparts. Boy that really doesn't sound at all like anything remotely close to what our fine upstanding CEO promised now does it.

(NEXT PROTEST IN SEPTEMBER AA)

$31.23
$32.01
$32.65
$33.30/ UAL Effective 12/01/2021

 

[Albert]

Hey Rat I'm assuming catering is a senior job. That means the entire fleet group in your station will be effected plus paying more for crappier medical F that

 

[Albert]

Lets see if I got this math about right? Delta currently is at $30.15 3% above that comes out to $31.06.

On 12/01/2018 UAL Ramp goes to $31.23

$31.23 - $31.06 = .17

So as far as wages just on year one we would be making .17 less than our UAL counterparts. Boy that really doesn't sound at all like anything remotely close to what our fine upstanding CEO promised now does it.

(NEXT PROTEST IN SEPTEMBER AA)

$31.23
$32.01
$32.65
$33.30/ UAL Effective 12/01/2021

I thought they go to 30.47 this December and with the new contract we would go up every September a couple of months before them

 

[WeAAsles]

I thought they go to 30.47 this December and with the new contract we would go up every September a couple of months before them

Oh jeez my bad Al. I was looking at 12/2018 not 12/2017. What a schmuck I am.