JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

Hey Rat I'm assuming catering is a senior job. That means the entire fleet group in your station will be effected plus paying more for crappier medical F that

Didn't the last time in BK #2 (2005) at USAIR the NC gave additional concessions to keep catering at a few stations even though they could have absorbed the overage on the ramp? Did 700 post something to this effect?

Roabilly has been gone for ages but what makes catering special? Roabilly went on and on about door fees.

Other than WN (provisioning which is all bulkloaded and proprietary to their system), UA sCO (Chelsea) what US carrier has catering in house? AA spun off SkyChefs decades ago, TWA had it in house but that wasn't part of the acquisition in 2001.

USAIR doesn't even run flight kitchens they obtain it from Gate Gourmet/SkyChefs but simply load it onboard and stock supplies, beverages and shelf stable snack items.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Didn't the last time in BK #2 (2005) at USAIR the NC gave additional concessions to keep catering at a few stations even though they could have absorbed the overage on the ramp? Did 700 post something to this effect?

Roabilly has been gone for ages but what makes catering special? Roabilly went on and on about door fees.

Other than WN (provisioning which is all bulkloaded and proprietary to their system), UA sCO (Chelsea) what US carrier has catering in house? AA spun off SkyChefs decades ago, TWA had it in house but that wasn't part of the acquisition in 2001.

USAIR doesn't even run flight kitchens they obtain it from Gate Gourmet/SkyChefs but simply load it onboard and stock supplies, beverages and shelf stable snack items.

Josh

Gríma Wormtongue?

 

[NYer]

Ever since this process started most have focused on the profits, which I guess is logical. However, most airline negotiations is about copy cat where one airline wants to have the same or similar costs on crossover items like fuel and labor.

Nothing that has been proposed by the Company should be a surprise, no one should be shocked as this was easily predictable.

The disappointing part of this is that the Association didn't keep up sufficiently updated and didn't set up the proper expectation for the challenges we'd be facing.

Instead, we were insulting each other, disparaging both unions and the Association. Today, we have a better picture of what we've been facing for the last 20 months. If we were told about the challenges and the difficulties maybe we could have done these protests much earlier and with the IAM at our sides.

At least now we have a clearer picture, one that some of us had been trying to convey, and one that hopefully remains clear.

 

[NYer]

I for one am glad that management put out that letter. For some time now many people (myself included) have been complaining about the pace of the negioations. I personally feel the crap sandwich outlined in management's offer should shed light on what the negotiators are dealing with. I have been asking for more detailed information to be released and with the update that AA put out it has rumbled the membership to a point where people "should" be patient enough to let this play out. I want zero givbacks. I have been in 4 (jfk lga phx dfw) stations in my 29 years with AAL and deicing was always performed by the TWU. I wouldn't let LUS lose catering and I would like to see a scope clause number for mail. LAA took mail away from us and at the time we weren't moving that much mail. The new AA LOVES mail, there should be a number similar to station staffing in pounds for us to regain the mail operation.
This contract is not close IMO and mid 2018 might be an early guess. But that's just my 2 cents

The challenge with mail is that the USPS bid those jobs out. The higher in pay we go the less likely the airline can win those contracts.

In MIA, we lost the domestic bids several times and they cut the mail drastically. We had the advantage of securing international mail but the volume isn't the same so the labor needs aren't the same.

Very challenging on that particular item.

 

[Traymark]

If we were told about the challenges and the difficulties maybe we could have done these protests much earlier and with the IAM at our sides.

I was calling this crap out over a year ago and calling for informational picketing, so I guess, we agree.

 

[WeAAsles]

Shared with respectful permission:


Briefing for 8-26-17

Hi everyone, by now I'm sure most of you have seen the company,s letter on negotiations that came out yesterday morning. Below I want to comment on some of the company's statements for our members and better explain them looking at it from theLUS side of things. I know many LAA ( twu ) receive this email also, but when I am speaking of the specifics, they relate from the specifics of the current IAM contract. If you haven't read the company's letter, you can read it on jetnet. I encourage everyone to go and read it and see if you feel as appreciated by the company as I do. But lets look at some of the things in the letter below. But first a few quotes from the letter to keep in mind as you read:

COMPANY:

" WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU ALL DO FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND YOUR FELLOW TEAM MEMBERS".

" WE'RE VERY PROUD OF OUR PROPOSAL "

1. GIVES TEAM MEMBERS THE HIGHEST PAY RATES IN THE INDUSTRY: You RECEIVED industry leading pay rates in August of 2016.

Our proposal offers additional increases that keep your pay rates AT THE TOP OF THE INDUSTRY.

MY RESPONSE: Notice the word received in the first sentence. Yes we did receive. This means we already have this money. Its not something they are giving us in this jcba. Also notice they say keep your pay rates at the top of the industry. They don't say leading industry like the sentence before. Why? Because the measly little annual raises they proposed ( which is less than 2% each year of the contract ) does not keep you at the " leading industry pay " . We would fall behind UA after the first year. Oh yeah, and the additional money they are offering everyone to bring out the jcba that they are PROUD OF, is about .28 a hour for a top out agent.

DO YOU FEEL APPRECIATED YET?

2. PROVIDES SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS TO HOLIDAYS AND TIME OFF:

MY RESPONSE: Under our current contract we have 7 holidays. The company claims to offer double time on holidays. Is this an improvement? No. We currently get double time for our holidays. And even if the company takes us up to 10 holidays ( which by the way isn't mentioned ) they are not getting us to where we were many years ago with 10 holidays at double time and a half. As far as time off? They are offering NO additional weeks of vacation for our members. Not only that, they want to double charge you the first year of the new contract if you miss any work and don't accrue the vacation for the month. They want to take from you the year that you miss, and also the following year that you bid.

DO YOU FEEL APPRECIATED YET?

3. PROVIDES A COMPANY 401(K) CONTRIBUTION AND A COMPANY MATCH THAT ARE RICH AS THE INDUSTRY'S BEST:

Under this proposal, all members would participate in the company's 401(k) plan that has POTENTIAL for greater contributions than were available under the IAM multi employer pension plan.

MY RESPONSE: To some that are anti pension this may look good. But I ask, why is the company trying to get us out of the pension. Why not give us both, which would be leading industry. The answer is simple. Its much cheaper for the company to offer a 401k vs a pension. Why? Two main reasons. First, the company knows that not all eligible employees will even put into the 401K. And those that do, only about 40% ( and that is high ) will put in enough that the company has to worry about matching. If you don't put enough in for the company to match, remember, it cost them nothing. And believe me, you and the negotiating team get charged at the table as if 100% of the employees are putting into the 401k and the company is having to match. Try and get the company to give us the money from the 60% of the members that they don't have to put a matching portion in for. This money goes back into the company's profit. This is called " leaving money on the table " since we get charged at the table as if 100% of the employees is getting the match 401k.

Now with the pension, the company must put into the pension the same negotiated rate for all employees. That's 100%. There is no only worrying about 40% participation. These are the reasons the company wants us out of the pension. We deserve both a pension and 401k match. This would be " leading industry ". The company is literally taking money from our group as a whole by leaving money on the table.

DO YOU FEEL APPRECIATED YET?

4. MOVES TWU - IAM REPRESENTED TEAM MEMBERS TO THE SAME MEDICAL PLANS AS ALL OTHER EMPLOYEES.

The company covers ROUGHLY ( nice word there ) 80% of the cost for medical coverage, while the employee takes on 20%.

Lastly the US Airways PPO 100/90/80 plans are NOT SUSTAINABLE.

MY RESPONSE: Ah I really feel appreciated here. Today for our insurance we pay either 7% for the 80, 14% for our 90, or 19.4% for our 100. All of which are far better than the current policy being offered. Not to mention the current policy being much worse if you have to use it. There are some very good comments on the jetnet comments section of the company's letter from employees that have had to use this insurance. Everyone should go read those comments. And for the last part that the current insurance is just not sustainable. That's BS. How can it be sustainable during bankruptcy contracts and sustainable for the stand alone agreement of US Airways, when the company was only making tens of millions in profit, but now its not sustainable for the largest airline in the world that is making record profits in the billions. Translation: It is sustainable, but we don't care enough about our employees to offer it.

DO YOU FEEL APPRECIATED YET?

5. KEEPS OUR CORE MAINTENANCE AND FLEET WORK AT AMERICAN:

Deicing needs ( yes we do deicing in many stations ) on the other hand, vary based on unpredictable weather. We propose moving deicing to a vendor who focuses only on that function. The same goes for catering. We want to also vendor catering so the work is handled by a company that lives and breathes catering.

MY RESPONSE: Really? I bet none of you knew that deicing needs vary based on the weather did you?

And for all of you catering agents out there that have worked catering for years. Sometimes for your whole career. Guess what? You don't live and breath catering like a vendor company can do. They will do a much better job since they live and breath it. So the company says lets get rid of your work at a time we are making record profits!!

DO YOU FEEL APPRECIATED YET?


The company also states in their letter that they are doing the great thing of offering the more generous of the current TWU or IAM contract!!!

MY RESPONSE: So the largest airline in the world that is making record profits, is bragging about taking a bankrupt contract ( twu) and a contract negotiated one time out of bankruptcy as the fifth largest carrier ( IAM contract ) and giving us now the best of either of those. Wow. That's really showing their appreciation. We have said all along that we need the best out of either contract and then we need to enhance it to be the best in the industry. Not just take the best as it is today. But thanks company. We do feel appreciated.

I was at headquarters yesterday morning in Dallas when the company pulls us in at 8am and gives us a copy of this letter they were putting out. We read it, and had much debate with the company about why they should not put this out. The company felt they needed to set the record straight on some things as the letter states. I tried to tell them putting this letter out would do nothing but piss the IAM members off. What do IAM members really gain from the company's offer ? They set there as stone faced as could be as if they could care less about pissing us off. So my only assumption with their response is that this letter was intended to put a wedge between the twu and iam members. Because it is much worse for the iam members, than the twumembers. ( although still not good for them ). But keep in mind, the company is looking at the numbers. They know the twuoutnumbers us. And that's all they care about. I know I have said it before, but it was a huge win for all our members that we were able to secure an equal number of seats at the negotiating table. We have already won in that aspect.

Some people will read this email and say that it is very hateful to the company, and is done with a bitter attitude. Well again I will remind everyone this is my personal email briefing, it is not an official email briefing from the IAM. And while I will disagree that it is hateful to the company, I will agree that it is done with a bitter attitude. I am in my 35th year with this company, and I know what my family and I have sacrificed over the years for me to stay employed by this airline. I have been through all the bad times and some good times. But I am bitter because now is suppose to be the best of times for all of us. We are part of a company that is the largest airline in the world making record profits. The proposal that this company has offered to our members at a time of record profits is what makes me bitter. I capitalized two quotes at the beginning made by the company. The first states on how much they appreciate us. And the next states how proud they are of their proposal. Well for me being in my 35th year and this supposedly being the best of times, its nothing but a slap in my face. It is definitely not a proposal that's shows they appreciate their employees. This company needs to quit all their TALK about how much we are appreciated, and instead learn to walk the walk and SHOW us how much we are appreciated. I will let all of you that read this out there make up your own mind as to how you feel about the company's letter. I just felt I needed to set the record straight on some of these issues since the company decided to put it out. I am now happy that the company put this letter out. I am happy about the response I have heard so far from all the members. I hope that this letter does nothing but unite the work group even more. I know it will if you feel as appreciated by the company as I do. On behalf of negotiating team I ask all of you to stay determined and strong and unite like never before in support of the team, so we can reach a leading industry contract that we and our families truly deserve in these best of times in the airline industry.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Think about the narrative that sito put out.
Many outstanding issues but we dont wanna negotiate for 3 months so the mx can start work on some seniority issues 5 years after the merger and arbitrators decisions. I would submit to you that its pretty reasonable to call out our union for treason if it wants to take a 3 month vacation with such offensively NON APPRECIATED issuues after years of the association. I could assure you all 100% that i myself would be outraged if we took a few months off of negotiations with such a gap.
Fortunately, i know that to be fake news and that the big gap and bribery, as explained by sito is "old hat".
Catering isnt going anywhere folks. If it did, id be so far deeper in someones arse. As an aside, I support CB views on catering and i know he will never push and sign a contract without it.

 

[NYer]

For 20 months these pages were filled with TWU v. IAM v. Association. It was TWU Members v. IAM Members. It was talk about getting this done, why is the union or the Company stalling. It was about the IAM losing their medical and lets just get it over with. It was about being forced into the IAMNPP even though that made no sense.

Within all that, we had others trying to convince everyone of the reported great progress as their artificial target dates came and went.

Alot of noise and nonsense but yet few wanted to have an honest conversation about the situation and challenges we faced and the NC face.

All that wasted energy falls on the shoulders of the leadership that didn't not give us a full account of what happening or a true sense of what we were going to face. They didn't set the right expectations in order to keep everyone together and focused.

Ironically, it took a Company letter to shake some sense into everyone. Let's see what happens from here.

 

[cltrat]

Hey Rat I'm assuming catering is a senior job. That means the entire fleet group in your station will be effected plus paying more for crappier medical F that

Albert yes it is, I found it quite enlightening how some want our holidays and double time but when it comes to catering and insurance we should quietly and happily give it up

 

[dfw gen]

the problem have with the "private email updates" is why are they private? why not shared with all the membership? is it so a few people can feel self important? i know something you dont? naa naa boo boo? come on thats why this association is not and will not work. there is no honesty and disclosure.again what i find interesting is all along the IAM has taken a "cautious" approach which i personally interpret as a "dont hinder dont help" kind of policy we have ours youll get your "wink,wink". now the company comes out and the strategy is clear use the majority to squeeze the minority. the sacred cows are at the slaughter house pension,medical,catering and while we are at it lets hose them on deicing. lets give the twu a little and they can hose the iam for us.and explain to the majority why NOW the iam is sitting stone faced at the table? the twu international under Jim Little fucked the **** out of us in bankruptcy and with the teamster drive, wonder how much that prick got paid under the table? the twu SEEMS to be getting away from central control and the marching of the lemmings, unfortunately the Iam still has that mentality. if the iam would have taken this association seriously they would have a LONG TIME ago been motivated. where was sito at the protest in Dallas,in Miami? where was the support from the iam? you couldnt pile a few clowns in the car and come down to make an appearance? Bitter? yes. please explain to me why i should fight for your pension? your catering? tell you the truth a couple of adjustments and im good to go, wink,wink....

 

[Tim Nelson]

For 20 months these pages were filled with TWU v. IAM v. Association. It was TWU Members v. IAM Members. It was talk about getting this done, why is the union or the Company stalling. It was about the IAM losing their medical and lets just get it over with. It was about being forced into the IAMNPP even though that made no sense.

Within all that, we had others trying to convince everyone of the reported great progress as their artificial target dates came and went.

Alot of noise and nonsense but yet few wanted to have an honest conversation about the situation and challenges we faced and the NC face.

All that wasted energy falls on the shoulders of the leadership that didn't not give us a full account of what happening or a true sense of what we were going to face. They didn't set the right expectations in order to keep everyone together and focused.

Ironically, it took a Company letter to shake some sense into everyone. Let's see what happens from here.

^^^this^^^

 

[WeAAsles]

For 20 months these pages were filled with TWU v. IAM v. Association. It was TWU Members v. IAM Members. It was talk about getting this done, why is the union or the Company stalling. It was about the IAM losing their medical and lets just get it over with. It was about being forced into the IAMNPP even though that made no sense.

Within all that, we had others trying to convince everyone of the reported great progress as their artificial target dates came and went.

Alot of noise and nonsense but yet few wanted to have an honest conversation about the situation and challenges we faced and the NC face.

All that wasted energy falls on the shoulders of the leadership that didn't not give us a full account of what happening or a true sense of what we were going to face. They didn't set the right expectations in order to keep everyone together and focused.

Ironically, it took a Company letter to shake some sense into everyone. Let's see what happens from here.

You do know that the Company Negotiators read these boards right?

Any conversations we had among ourselves here you may have just put out the popcorn and soda for Jerry and co. as well.

 

[Tim Nelson]

the problem have with the "private email updates" is why are they private? why not shared with all the membership? is it so a few people can feel self important? i know something you dont? naa naa boo boo? come on thats why this association is not and will not work. there is no honesty and disclosure.again what i find interesting is all along the IAM has taken a "cautious" approach which i personally interpret as a "dont hinder dont help" kind of policy we have ours youll get your "wink,wink". now the company comes out and the strategy is clear use the majority to squeeze the minority. the sacred cows are at the slaughter house pension,medical,catering and while we are at it lets hose them on deicing. lets give the twu a little and they can hose the iam for us.and explain to the majority why NOW the iam is sitting stone faced at the table? the twu international under Jim Little fucked the **** out of us in bankruptcy and with the teamster drive, wonder how much that prick got paid under the table? the twu SEEMS to be getting away from central control and the marching of the lemmings, unfortunately the Iam still has that mentality. if the iam would have taken this association seriously they would have a LONG TIME ago been motivated. where was sito at the protest in Dallas,in Miami? where was the support from the iam? you couldnt pile a few clowns in the car and come down to make an appearance? Bitter? yes. please explain to me why i should fight for your pension? your catering? tell you the truth a couple of adjustments and im good to go, wink,wink....

Our pension sucks donkey. I would much rather have the company putting $2.88 into my 401 than $1.30 into an absolutely dead pension. That said, the company will put $2 into my pension. All this talk about us not being in the iam pension is unfortunately fake news. Why do you think the company met with the union and talked about the letter prior to it goin out? I can assure you 100% that Sito knows a helluva lot more than our nc which seem to be in the dark. There is a reason why we ceased negotiating for 3 months and its NOT because of some flying sphetti monster hijacking mx seniority. Think people!!!

 

[NYer]

You do know that the Company Negotiators read these boards right?

Any conversations we had among ourselves here you may have just put out the popcorn and soda for Jerry and co. as well.

 

[WeAAsles]

the problem have with the "private email updates" is why are they private? why not shared with all the membership? is it so a few people can feel self important? i know something you dont? naa naa boo boo? come on thats why this association is not and will not work. there is no honesty and disclosure.again what i find interesting is all along the IAM has taken a "cautious" approach which i personally interpret as a "dont hinder dont help" kind of policy we have ours youll get your "wink,wink". now the company comes out and the strategy is clear use the majority to squeeze the minority. the sacred cows are at the slaughter house pension,medical,catering and while we are at it lets hose them on deicing. lets give the twu a little and they can hose the iam for us.and explain to the majority why NOW the iam is sitting stone faced at the table? the twu international under Jim Little fucked the **** out of us in bankruptcy and with the teamster drive, wonder how much that prick got paid under the table? the twu SEEMS to be getting away from central control and the marching of the lemmings, unfortunately the Iam still has that mentality. if the iam would have taken this association seriously they would have a LONG TIME ago been motivated. where was sito at the protest in Dallas,in Miami? where was the support from the iam? you couldnt pile a few clowns in the car and come down to make an appearance? Bitter? yes. please explain to me why i should fight for your pension? your catering? tell you the truth a couple of adjustments and im good to go, wink,wink....

The "Private" E Mail update is because it comes from "ONE" Negotiators perspective and not a collective response.

This update is for the Members that he represents directly who voted for him by majority.

He's kind enough to share his points of view with the rest of us even when he sometimes receives criticism from individuals he doesn't directly represent. (If it was me I'd tell some of those people to piss off personally)