JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Timmy care to comment here on Forums?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

it's all going to come down to what premium above ua will aa pay to get all on laa insurance. i'm also assuming the company will get their lead x crew chief language.

i also expect a bump in 401k matching..though i don't know if tim nelson is saying laa fsc will get a choice between a 401k bump/no iam pension vs. iam pension/no 401k bump.

i also understand and accept that fleet service is waiting for mx to 'catch-up'. the company had done the opposite months ago when it was revealed that mx was offered more vc and fleet was not. mx waited and we caught up; as in, i expect 1 more week vc. this is no shame on the negotiators, it's shame on the new "$5 billion a year in profit" company.

i have no problem with all of that if we are around/above $32.50/hr DOS ($33/hr with differential) - $35.50-$36.00 TOS. that is the premium that i would expect and be content with.

 

[WeAAsles]

it's all going to come down to what premium above ua will aa pay to get all on laa insurance. i'm also assuming the company will get their lead x crew chief language.

i also expect a bump in 401k matching..though i don't know if tim nelson is saying laa fsc will get a choice between a 401k bump/no iam pension vs. iam pension/no 401k bump.

i also understand and accept that fleet service is waiting for mx to 'catch-up'. the company had done the opposite months ago when it was revealed that mx was offered more vc and fleet was not. mx waited and we caught up; as in, i expect 1 more week vc. this is no shame on the negotiators, it's shame on the new "$5 billion a year in profit" company.

i have no problem with all of that if we are around/above $32.50/hr DOS ($33/hr with differential) - $35.50-$36.00 TOS. that is the premium that i would expect and be content with.

I was told by a TWU friend in a very high place that what Tim wrote is BS.

Make a note of what he wrote cause he's claimed to have room leakers in the past and he was DEAD wrong on that last IAM agreement?

 

[Traymark]

Uhh Weaas, he's also been right before on the raise, before anyone else knew about it...

 

[WeAAsles]

Uhh Weaas, he's also been right before on the raise, before anyone else knew about it...

Which raise? The one last October? All I really recall is how totally wrong he was on the IAM contract agreement.

Could "someone" have fed him the right "real" information this time?

We'll see? (Save his post)

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I like my version better.

Can you explain to me how a Journeyman Electrician takes a job at American Airlines and does not go into electrical maintenance.

Did the higher pay and lower work load scare you off?

Did the question confuse you bob@las-AA?

Maybe the answer would validate what I said earlier, that you washed out.

Take all the time you need.

 

[pjirish317]

pjirish317,

My comment only had to do with will everything be industry leading. No, some will be industry average. As for Insurance, that will be discussed in economics. As I have briefed in breakrooms, 110,000 employees have the LAA insurance, 10,000 have the LUS insurance. These are the facts we have to try to overcome. It won't be easy.

P. Rez

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ is the ultimate BS argument and seems to me like you have already accepted that the LUS medical will be or already is coughed up. You can't sit on here and tell me that because 110,000 have it we should to. Really? Just because the company wants it, doesn't mean they get it. We could all say we want $38 per hour, 6 weeks vacation, with the option to convert our 10 holidays (yes we should have 10 holidays) to an additional 2 weeks annually, not a one time decision, shift differential, and 12 sick days accrued a year. plus paid OT bypass, and scope at our current level which is at 1 flight a day for the LUS folks. Because we "want" these things, doen it mean we will get them? Come on, at least be honest and tell us YOU are willing to sell the LUS medical for other enhancements. If YOU are not willing to sell the LUS medical for other enhancements, take a stand for pete's sake. Stop with the straw man arguments.

To AANOTOK,

Yes our scope (LUS) is currently at 1 Mainline flight pre day including LAA metal. And no, I would not take it personal or hold it against any LAA for voting to got to the LAA medical if a T/A had major enhancements for both sides excluding the LUS medical.

 

[Traymark]

I tried to explain it to you a while back. The fact the rest of the company was on LAA insurance made this a done deal because they would have to change a bunch of other folks too.

Intellectual honesty.
The LUS insurance was only slightly less costly because you were all working for $10 per hour less than everyone else.

Now, all that said, I certainly expect the company to cough something up for being able to get everyone on the same insurance (btw, this can and will benefit all down the road by having a larger group to deal with insurance companies).
Like Tim Nelson said, the Pilots got a 16% Contribution to their 401K, thats the direction this should go.

 

[pjirish317]

I tried to explain it to you a while back. The fact the rest of the company was on LAA insurance made this a done deal because they would have to change a bunch of other folks too.

Intellectual honesty.
The LUS insurance was only slightly less costly because you were all working for $10 per hour less than everyone else.

Now, all that said, I certainly expect the company to cough something up for being able to get everyone on the same insurance (btw, this can and will benefit all down the road by having a larger group to deal with insurance companies).
Like Tim Nelson said, the Pilots got a 16% Contribution to their 401K, thats the direction this should go.

Traymark,
Please tell me who the "other folks they would have to change" are? Please define "only slightly less costly". It survived 2 bankruptcies, and 2 more CBA's after that. Why is it a must have now for the company? We may have been about $10 less than everybody else, but in 2014 we were brought to the same as you and kept our insurance in that CBA. Why wasn't our insurance plans put in line with LAA's with that agreement? I just do not agree that because everybody else has this insurance that we HAVE to accept it. That to me is BS. It's like saying that everybody else has a crap sandwich for lunch so we have to have one also. Bullcrap.

 

[WeAAsles]

I tried to explain it to you a while back. The fact the rest of the company was on LAA insurance made this a done deal because they would have to change a bunch of other folks too.

Intellectual honesty.
The LUS insurance was only slightly less costly because you were all working for $10 per hour less than everyone else.

Now, all that said, I certainly expect the company to cough something up for being able to get everyone on the same insurance (btw, this can and will benefit all down the road by having a larger group to deal with insurance companies).
Like Tim Nelson said, the Pilots got a 16% Contribution to their 401K, thats the direction this should go.

Ok wait a minute here. I think you're getting somewhat confused. LUS "Fleet" was making in wages roughly $2.00 per hour (more or less) less than the rest of the industry for years so that's how IMO they were subsidizing that Medical plan cost. That and of course their PT Members paying double.

Now instead the direction seems to be a shift where the Company is going to have """ALL""" of us be at top of the industry wages but the overall Medical expenses will be evenly in line.

Actually doing it that way far more people benefit (in higher wages) than lose because of more expensive Medical cost.

(What is the percentage of total members overall who use the MAX Medical benefits per year?)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Timmy care to comment here on Forums?


View attachment 11980 View attachment 11981

It is what it is. You dont have to accept it. The individual who sent it is credible to me and i believe it. I wasnt too happy to say the least and i doubt many lus will be but thats only my opinion. I was told i lost my lus health care for 2018 but it will be made up with a $32 and extra iamnpf. Why the F do i have to get a pay raise to bridge a concession? Excuse me, but thats not a pay raise when i gotta pay for it. And sorry, but liwuidating my health care into the iamfpf is offensive when i know the pension trustees will have to take it and cut my pension to bail out billions in liabilities again.
This company is making BILLIONS per quarter and we shouldda brought twu up to our health care or not bothered negotiating since we already have a contract that isnt ammendable. Im not convinced of the argument that we have to walk away from the best insurance in the industry just because others did. But im not impressed with the cashout. The pilots walked cuz they got a 16% 401k but mine gets liquidated into a shiat underfunded pension. Thats my opinion and if thats how it shakes out then im upset. I wasnt upset about our 2014 contract but ill do all possible to get these knucleheads out if this information holds true.

 

[WeAAsles]

It is what it is. You dont have to accept it. The individual who sent it is credible to me and i believe it. I wasnt too happy to say the least and i doubt many lus will be but thats only my opinion. I was told i lost my lus health care for 2018 but it will be made up with a $32 and extra iamnpf. Why the F do i have to get a pay raise to bridge a concession? Excuse me, but thats not a pay raise when i gotta pay for it. And sorry, but liwuidating my health care into the iamfpf is offensive when i know the pension trustees will have to take it and cut my pension to bail out billions in liabilities again.
This company is making BILLIONS per quarter and we shouldda brought twu up to our health care or not bothered negotiating since we already have a contract that isnt ammendable. Im not convinced of the argument that we have to walk away from the best insurance in the industry just because others did. But im not impressed with the cashout. The pilots walked cuz they got a 16% 401k but mine gets liquidated into a shiat underfunded pension. Thats my opinion and if thats how it shakes out then im upset. I wasnt upset about our 2014 contract but ill do all possible to get these knucleheads out if this information holds true.

Um lmao "IF" YOU are/have gotten a $12/$13 per hour raise by the time your extra 2018 Medical plan cost takes effect to you, I think (again lmao) you'll be able to handle it there, lmao.

A $12/$13 per hour raise since 2014 for us professional bag handlers/caretakers, not too shabby if you ask me.

(You should plan some more Houston trips)

 

[WeAAsles]

It is what it is. You dont have to accept it. The individual who sent it is credible to me and i believe it. I wasnt too happy to say the least and i doubt many lus will be but thats only my opinion. I was told i lost my lus health care for 2018 but it will be made up with a $32 and extra iamnpf. Why the F do i have to get a pay raise to bridge a concession? Excuse me, but thats not a pay raise when i gotta pay for it. And sorry, but liwuidating my health care into the iamfpf is offensive when i know the pension trustees will have to take it and cut my pension to bail out billions in liabilities again.
This company is making BILLIONS per quarter and we shouldda brought twu up to our health care or not bothered negotiating since we already have a contract that isnt ammendable. Im not convinced of the argument that we have to walk away from the best insurance in the industry just because others did. But im not impressed with the cashout. The pilots walked cuz they got a 16% 401k but mine gets liquidated into a shiat underfunded pension. Thats my opinion and if thats how it shakes out then im upset. I wasnt upset about our 2014 contract but ill do all possible to get these knucleheads out if this information holds true.

BTW Tim just to tell ya. Nothing you wrote/shared sounded unreasonable to me anyway. It falls in line pretty much with the rest of the industry from contracts I've read anyway. Not one single item comes as any surprise.

And you won't get out one single "knucklehead" BTW. Most LUS will look at what they gained overall from these Reps (2014 to 2018) and be wildly happy with what they have. They'll be patting them on the back and hoisting them up on shoulders.

Since the merger Tim you and your peeps entered the Big Leagues. You're a part of the Big Show and signing autographs now. Congratulations.

"Pie chart, how things work"

 

[swamt]

Pilots got a 16% 401k.

As far as the IAMNPF, it doesn't look good for retirees. I'll be explaining this in a new video after securing additional information from the IAM Pension administrator after threatening him with legal action and fees due to him not providing the key additional information. He finally provided it to me and it isn't good.

The IAMNPF is starting to circle the drain, much like one of its other pension plans, i.e., the IAM Motor City Pension Plan. They cut benefits of that plan with adjustments back in 2009 and that saved the plan for a short time. Then when their contract was up, the IAM loaded up company contributions into their plan instead of getting benefits elsewhere and the company agreed to contribute a whopping $2.50 hourly into the Motor City plan. Then the IAM signed a LOA the following year to up the company contributions into the plan to $3. Where did the money go? Right into the IAM Coffers because the plan ultimately couldn't be saved due to the ponzie scheme (think social security) and having a bunch of old farts and no young blood participating into the plan. So, 3 months ago, The IAM Motor City Pension plan trustees took a knife and petitioned the US Treasury to whack the CURRENT checks of retirees up to 50%. All of this you can prolly find by googling.

But the trend was much the same as the IAMNPF is taking. The IAMNPF trustees would have whacked our plan this past December after the actuarial valuation report but due to an INTL election, they held off. Now, as the plan dwindles further, with the addition of yet a rerun election, the question becomes if the Pension Bosses will play politics with our pension and hold off the needed cut, thereby saving them from political tarnishing, but allowing our pension to dig deeper into ruins. Time will tell, but our pension will necessarily have an announced cut this December or the following after the election. The cut will most likely be the funding policies of unreduced pensions. In other words, they will shread billions of liabilities and get the plan back up over 100% funding by forcing participants to wait until they are 65 prior to collecting full retirement benefits.

Warning Will Robinson!

I have been telling you guys this for years now. Not sure why you didn't have this info already (it was available you know) The other IAM motor fund I brought up not long ago and I even stated that this fund was not the same as the IAMPF but was the same management folks from the IAM. At least the company is aware on how bad it is as they want nothing to do with the IAMPF. Yes Tim, you guys need to run to the hills away from this pension they are trying to get in. They continue to get cut, some for the 3rd time. Just look over at the teamsters pension at UPS.

 

[Tim Nelson]

BTW Tim just to tell ya. Nothing you wrote/shared sounded unreasonable to me anyway. It falls in line pretty much with the rest of the industry from contracts I've read anyway. Not one single item comes as any surprise.

And you won't get out one single "knucklehead" BTW. Most LUS will look at what they gained overall from these Reps (2014 to 2018) and be wildly happy with what they have. They'll be patting them on the back and hoisting them up on shoulders.

Since the merger Tim you and your peeps entered the Big Leagues. You're a part of the Big Show and signing autographs now. Congratulations.

"Pie chart, how things work"

View attachment 11982

I look at it differently. This isnt an "accumulation? Our 2014 was a stand alone. Our wage loa was stand alone. The 2014 contract wasnt 1A and this 1B.

So i dont look at it as an accumlation of benefits/ concessions since 2014. I dont feel i owe any quid pro.. to the company or any kind of tax for ratifying 2014.
Obviously you look at it differently as its your turn now. As twu, i cant deny it looks like a goodie. As lus, i dont like the tradeoff and cost neutral feel. Not sure of the language regarding pt rules/limits but that changed.
Other lus may like this contract, im sure many will. Just speaking for myself from ord. If i were in jax and was grandfathered then maybe it would have a better feel.