JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[cltrat]

personally I would not as if I were in your position I'd feel the same way. I don't think we should lose it but I have to be realistic too. If it goes hopefully LUS guys will at least get a bone tossed our way

 

[WeAAsles]

Rez,

We have had our disagreements in the past, and knowing some on the NC, I hope this statement isn't a preperation for the NC coughing up the LUS healthcare. I realize not everybody will be happy about any T/A that may or may not come out. Because it seems as if you are trying to soften the blow with the whole "Does that mean every single iten, no!". The only time that the IAM did a good job was our last CBA, the July 2014 one. All previous ones were a bit shady. I'm still not sure that I trust Sito not to pull a UA on us. But I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Besides you have absolutly no good reason to use as an excuse for coughing up the LUS healthcare, none.

PJ is it not true that since 2014 you have received a roughly $10.00 per hour increase to your base wages?

$10.00 x 40 x 4 = $1600.00
$1600.00 - 25% (max Taxes) = $1200.00 per month take home TOS IAM Member.

How much is the MAX increase a Member could face counting out of pocket monthly increases AND full deductibles?

$1200.00 x 12 = $14,400. TOS (Not counting any extra hours the Member works)

110,000 - 10,000 = 100,000 AA Employees currently under a different cost structure than you.

IAM PT Members paying "close to" what we on TWU LAA side pay. So deduct PT Members from the equation and that = how many benefitting for real?

Likelihood's on odds?

(BTW looks like the CORE "sucky" Medical plan "will/may" be going down in cost by 30% for many AA Employees?)

 

[gulfcoast1]

If the company wants a concession on health care for some employees, there should be a clear improvement somewhere else. I am inclined to vote no on anything concessionary for either side without a positive offset somewhere else.

And again, concerning Scope, I plan to vote no on any TA with a Scope Clause closer to LAA than to LUS. I never did get an answer on what the LUS Scope Clause is. Is it really 1 flight a day in some stations? Are those only current stations which have been grandfathered? LAA used to require 7 flights to keep TWU, now I think it is 15. I would like to see us return to 7 or less, especially if some LUS stations only require 1.

Being forced into the IAMPF, current LAA Scope, no reimbursement for LUS being forced into LAA healthcare, and wages that are not industry leading would all be a no vote from me.

Have a good weekend.

 

[WeAAsles]

personally I would not as if I were in your position I'd feel the same way. I don't think we should lose it but I have to be realistic too. If it goes hopefully LUS guys will at least get a bone tossed our way

You've technically had a pretty good bone thrown your way already in it still continuing on your Medical cost to this day.

And I also believe you're going to get another year of cost savings and time to acclimate to a higher Medical expense.

Also don't forget whatever raises you might receive to help soften the blow when it comes. (2.1% next month)

BUT I still feel IAM Members should have prepared for this possibility of higher medical rates when you received all those raises. (That's been A LOT of money that could have been socked away)

 

[cltrat]

You've technically had a pretty good bone thrown your way already in it still continuing on your Medical cost to this day.

And I also believe you're going to get another year of cost savings and time to acclimate to a higher Medical expense.

Also don't forget whatever raises you might receive to help soften the blow when it comes. (2.1% next month)

BUT I still feel IAM Members should have prepared for this possibility of higher medical rates when you received all those raises. (That's been A LOT of money that could have been socked away)

you sound like DP are you speaking for him?

I believe the LAA side got a pretty nice raise too so don't come here with that chit

 

[WeAAsles]

I too believe after re-enrollment. LUS gets a one year reprieve until eventually being put under LAA's plan. The membership numbers, regarding this issue, are unfortunately not there. Seems to be the big issue for the company. What do we get in return is the question.

Not meaning to initiate an argument here but we can and should converse about this IMO.

Does or should the contract you received in 2014 count for anything? Do you believe without the Merger you would have that contract right now? Do you think again had US remained standalone it would have had the financial ability to close a deal with you?

BTW I firmly believe that whatever movement came in Negotiations last week for Fleet was a direct result of the TWU Picket in DFW that received over 3000 protestors. (Time to move that ball along man)

 

[WeAAsles]

you sound like DP are you speaking for him?

I believe the LAA side got a pretty nice raise too so don't come here with that chit

I got a very good raise bro. I've NEVER denied that. You're the guy who wants to ignore your cash wad, not me. You guys seem to constantly and consistently ignore it.

110,000 High cost Medical
10,000 Low cost Medical

P. Rez just gave you that reality. He's one of YOUR Negotiators bro.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I too believe after re-enrollment. LUS gets a one year reprieve until eventually being put under LAA's plan. The membership numbers, regarding this issue, are unfortunately not there. Seems to be the big issue for the company. What do we get in return is the question.

Pilots got a 16% 401k.

As far as the IAMNPF, it doesn't look good for retirees. I'll be explaining this in a new video after securing additional information from the IAM Pension administrator after threatening him with legal action and fees due to him not providing the key additional information. He finally provided it to me and it isn't good.

The IAMNPF is starting to circle the drain, much like one of its other pension plans, i.e., the IAM Motor City Pension Plan. They cut benefits of that plan with adjustments back in 2009 and that saved the plan for a short time. Then when their contract was up, the IAM loaded up company contributions into their plan instead of getting benefits elsewhere and the company agreed to contribute a whopping $2.50 hourly into the Motor City plan. Then the IAM signed a LOA the following year to up the company contributions into the plan to $3. Where did the money go? Right into the IAM Coffers because the plan ultimately couldn't be saved due to the ponzie scheme (think social security) and having a bunch of old farts and no young blood participating into the plan. So, 3 months ago, The IAM Motor City Pension plan trustees took a knife and petitioned the US Treasury to whack the CURRENT checks of retirees up to 50%. All of this you can prolly find by googling.

But the trend was much the same as the IAMNPF is taking. The IAMNPF trustees would have whacked our plan this past December after the actuarial valuation report but due to an INTL election, they held off. Now, as the plan dwindles further, with the addition of yet a rerun election, the question becomes if the Pension Bosses will play politics with our pension and hold off the needed cut, thereby saving them from political tarnishing, but allowing our pension to dig deeper into ruins. Time will tell, but our pension will necessarily have an announced cut this December or the following after the election. The cut will most likely be the funding policies of unreduced pensions. In other words, they will shread billions of liabilities and get the plan back up over 100% funding by forcing participants to wait until they are 65 prior to collecting full retirement benefits.

Warning Will Robinson!

 

[cltrat]

I got a very good raise bro. I've NEVER denied that. You're the guy who wants to ignore your cash wad, not me. You guys seem to constantly and consistently ignore it.

110,000 High cost Medical
10,000 Low cost Medical

P. Rez just gave you that reality. He's one of YOUR Negotiators bro.

so I can put you down as not minding if LUS gets a bigger per year of service signing bonus for being happy about making a concession than LAA?

 

[WeAAsles]

Pilots got a 16% 401k.

As far as the IAMNPF, it doesn't look good for retirees. I'll be explaining this in a new video after securing additional information from the IAM Pension administrator after threatening him with legal action and fees due to him not providing the key additional information. He finally provided it to me and it isn't good.

The IAMNPF is starting to circle the drain, much like one of its other pension plans, i.e., the IAM Motor City Pension Plan. They cut benefits of that plan with adjustments back in 2009 and that saved the plan for a short time. Then when their contract was up, the IAM loaded up company contributions into their plan instead of getting benefits elsewhere and the company agreed to contribute a whopping $2.50 hourly into the Motor City plan. Then the IAM signed a LOA the following year to up the company contributions into the plan to $3. Where did the money go? Right into the IAM Coffers because the plan ultimately couldn't be saved due to the ponzie scheme (think social security) and having a bunch of old farts and no young blood participating into the plan. So, 3 months ago, The IAM Motor City Pension plan trustees took a knife and petitioned the US Treasury to whack the CURRENT checks of retirees up to 50%. All of this you can prolly find by googling.

But the trend was much the same as the IAMNPF is taking. The IAMNPF trustees would have whacked our plan this past December after the actuarial valuation report but due to an INTL election, they held off. Now, as the plan dwindles further, with the addition of yet a rerun election, the question becomes if the Pension Bosses will play politics with our pension and hold off the needed cut, thereby saving them from political tarnishing, but allowing our pension to dig deeper into ruins. Time will tell, but our pension will necessarily have an announced cut this December or the following after the election. The cut will most likely be the funding policies of unreduced pensions. In other words, they will shread billions of liabilities and get the plan back up over 100% funding by forcing participants to wait until they are 65 prior to collecting full retirement benefits.

Warning Will Robinson!

Hey Joe Agenda, he was talking about Medical.

 

[WeAAsles]

so I can put you down as not minding if LUS gets a bigger per year of service signing bonus for being happy about making a concession than LAA?

Dude whatever cash the Company wants to put in your bank account for whatever reason, more power to ya.

Depending on the timing maybe you will get a check for something? Or I'll get a check for something? Or we'll both get checks for something?

Besides you can always make the Donkeys (Jackasses) move by slapping a carrot on a stick and pinning it over their heads.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not meaning to initiate an argument here but we can and should converse about this IMO.

Does or should the contract you received in 2014 count for anything? Do you believe without the Merger you would have that contract right now? Do you think again had US remained standalone it would have had the financial ability to close a deal with you?

BTW I firmly believe that whatever movement came in Negotiations last week for Fleet was a direct result of the TWU Picket in DFW that received over 3000 protestors. (Time to move that ball along man)

I think the picket was needed but a failure insomuch that the company secured Sito's non support of the picket. Which was amazing for the company to pull off since even AMFA offered support. I mean, think about it, management had the co chairman withhold support. Not to rain on your picket but your picket became less meaningful, unfortunately, when Sito chose not to endorse it. There are 2 things that are driving negotiations. Politics and Politics.

We were on the fast track and expediting things and nailing 2 TA's a session and most likely would have had a TA by May, including the loss of the LUS heath care UNTIL things came to a halt after I C Blocked the last election and forced a new vote. No longer were our Union bosses guaranteed to stay in office for 4 years as they became subject to a vote next February. Mind you, the company always wanted a JCBA but the IAM Union bosses were never going to hand over the LUS after they found out they would have to run for office again. The political compromise for them became to wait until re-enrollment. Then at least our members won't feel the concession in their pay checks until after a officer election.

As far as the LUS, I disagree with your thinking on that. You use hypothetical situations and say "If not then then not that". Sorry but just because we maintained our LUS health benefits in 2014 doesn't mean that we simply borrowed our benefits to be dissolved with a new contract. That's not what the contract reads.

The contract reads that we have these benefits until at least another year and then thereafter until a new section 6 contract is achieved. Kindly review the duration article. So, we don't owe the TWU or the company anything. We already have. Logically it makes no sense to give up our LUS healthcare since we have it for the foreseeable future. It survived 2 bankruptcies as well so it can't be said that the TWU brought it to us. We owe the TWU nothing.

The pilots were in the same boat. DP made a play for their health care. They were willing to walk from their LUS healthcare after securing a 16% 401k.
Unfortunately, what I think is going to happen is that the IAM will cash in our LUS healthcare to try to horde more money into the failing IAMNPF. Don't be surprised if the IAM gets $2 from the company into the IAM hands....not the members hands....the IAM Pension bosses. They did the same thing with the IAM Motor City Pension. Cashed in some benefits in return to have the auto dealers put big increases into the pension fund ($2.50 per hour0. Then as the fund continued to dwindle, the auto makers agreed to toss in $3 per hour into the fund. All along the IAM told the technicians that the increase will preserve their pension when the exact opposite happened., i.e., the IAM pension bosses just took the money, but wiped out the pension benefits. And today, you can prolly google it and see how 2 months ago the IAM Pension bosses asked the US Treasury to rob 50% of the checks of current retirees, and pretty much eliminate big chunks of active participants. If the US treasury approves, which it will, the IAM Motor City Pension will be back in the green.

Being in the green doesn't mean anything. The Motor City plan will prolly be overfunded after the Federal government approves the plan of action. After wiping away millions in liabilities the math won't lie and the plan will be overfunded. The same will happen with our pension. Sometime in the next 18 months, they will have to whack $3 billion of future liabilities. When they do, our pensions will look like they went through a war zone. But the IAM will proudly say "Hey, it's in the green zone and overfunded." Suckers will take the bait again as the cycle of ignorance never stops.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hey Joe Agenda, he was talking about Medical.

I was too and I brought in the IAMNPF. It's not a personal agenda. It's an agenda we all have. A personal agenda is when someone tries to limit information, not share and expand information.

Informed consent is what we should all be about.

 

[Tim Nelson]

you sound like DP are you speaking for him?

I believe the LAA side got a pretty nice raise too so don't come here with that chit

He is speaking for his own wallet. I don't blame him, from his perspective. He wants that double time and holidays and a new week of vacation. Certainly he has no attachment to our LUS medical which he has already indicated has prevented him from getting his double time and holidays. Like I said, I like Weas, he is bold and a strong advocate for TWU peeps other than his support for the IAMNPF due to his detachment from his own Local.

 

[WeAAsles]

I think the picket was needed but a failure insomuch that the company secured Sito's non support of the picket. Which was amazing for the company to pull off since even AMFA offered support. I mean, think about it, management had the co chairman withhold support. Not to rain on your picket but your picket became less meaningful, unfortunately, when Sito chose not to endorse it. There are 2 things that are driving negotiations. Politics and Politics.

We were on the fast track and expediting things and nailing 2 TA's a session and most likely would have had a TA by May, including the loss of the LUS heath care UNTIL things came to a halt after I C Blocked the last election and forced a new vote. No longer were our Union bosses guaranteed to stay in office for 4 years as they became subject to a vote next February. Mind you, the company always wanted a JCBA but the IAM Union bosses were never going to hand over the LUS after they found out they would have to run for office again. The political compromise for them became to wait until re-enrollment. Then at least our members won't feel the concession in their pay checks until after a officer election.

As far as the LUS, I disagree with your thinking on that. You use hypothetical situations and say "If not then then not that". Sorry but just because we maintained our LUS health benefits in 2014 doesn't mean that we simply borrowed our benefits to be dissolved with a new contract. That's not what the contract reads.

The contract reads that we have these benefits until at least another year and then thereafter until a new section 6 contract is achieved. Kindly review the duration article. So, we don't owe the TWU or the company anything. We already have. Logically it makes no sense to give up our LUS healthcare since we have it for the foreseeable future. It survived 2 bankruptcies as well so it can't be said that the TWU brought it to us. We owe the TWU nothing.

The pilots were in the same boat. DP made a play for their health care. They were willing to walk from their LUS healthcare after securing a 16% 401k.
Unfortunately, what I think is going to happen is that the IAM will cash in our LUS healthcare to try to horde more money into the failing IAMNPF. Don't be surprised if the IAM gets $2 from the company into the IAM hands....not the members hands....the IAM Pension bosses. They did the same thing with the IAM Motor City Pension. Cashed in some benefits in return to have the auto dealers put big increases into the pension fund ($2.50 per hour0. Then as the fund continued to dwindle, the auto makers agreed to toss in $3 per hour into the fund. All along the IAM told the technicians that the increase will preserve their pension when the exact opposite happened., i.e., the IAM pension bosses just took the money, but wiped out the pension benefits. And today, you can prolly google it and see how 2 months ago the IAM Pension bosses asked the US Treasury to rob 50% of the checks of current retirees, and pretty much eliminate big chunks of active participants. If the US treasury approves, which it will, the IAM Motor City Pension will be back in the green.

Being in the green doesn't mean anything. The Motor City plan will prolly be overfunded after the Federal government approves the plan of action. After wiping away millions in liabilities the math won't lie and the plan will be overfunded. The same will happen with our pension. Sometime in the next 18 months, they will have to whack $3 billion of future liabilities. When they do, our pensions will look like they went through a war zone. But the IAM will proudly say "Hey, it's in the green zone and overfunded." Suckers will take the bait again as the cycle of ignorance never stops.

Holy Crap do you ramble too much. You're certainly a ramblin fool. (Can't read all that ramblin there man)