JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

Ok but in theory if you had a solid cap on the amount of PT that the Company could bring in individualized per station, wouldn't those FT and PT heads just be shifted around to other areas of the operation?

Not to ever put down the great job MIA always does in getting as many FT shifts as possible to have weekends off, but I'm all for trying to figure out how to gain even more weekends off?

On your other answer I do understand your trepidation. But as far as QOL don't knock the 4/10 until you've tried it yourself. Even a highly limited locally agreed to amount would be appreciated by your most senior members who would leap on it.

We're not talking "what if's," we're talking about today.

Most places got rid of their 4/10 shifts. It drags down OT and hinders CS's.

 

[WeAAsles]

We're not talking "what if's," we're talking about today.

Most places got rid of their 4/10 shifts. It drags down OT and hinders CS's.

I wonder how many people there are that don't do either CS or OT who again would LOVE a 4/10 shift?

Oh well, screw them I guess. (Greed has to come before QOL always)

 

[ograc]

Ok but in theory if you had a solid cap on the amount of PT that the Company could bring in individualized per station, wouldn't those FT and PT heads just be shifted around to other areas of the operation?

Not to ever put down the great job MIA always does in getting as many FT shifts as possible to have weekends off, but I'm all for trying to figure out how to gain even more weekends off?

On your other answer I do understand your trepidation. But as far as QOL don't knock the 4/10 until you've tried it yourself. Even a highly limited locally agreed to amount would be appreciated by your most senior members who would leap on it.

In Theory; a solid cap on part time, by specific station staffing, would produce eventual shifts to FT. The problem is, to my knowledge, no such cap exists in either current contract. Part time ratio is determined on a system wide basis under LUS contract with IAM. Not sure what language exists in the AA contract with the TWU. I believe the IAM contract at UA forfeited any part time caps. Another Article and language that deserves attention and assigned priority IMO.

 

[ograc]

two sides to every coin.

 

[AANOTOK]

Playing devils advocate NYer, there are more folks who do not work overtime, especially daily, even during a union sponsored ban, and I'm pretty sure that close to if not more folks do not use CS's as extra vacations or as a FT to PT crutch. They are just happy they are there when needed. I will give you that CS's play an important role when used as a tool to commute, but that is something that should be addressed in negotiations, getting these folks back home. So, in my opinion, your argument that 4/10's harm those who prefer OT and multiple CSing opportunities is not a strong argument. My one vote would be more 4/10 shifts. But, I'm good either way.

 

[WeAAsles]

Thinking Towards The Future as We Fight for Today

As we enter this next phase of negotiations, I want to emphasize the importance of understanding what we are working for - not only for current, but also future members. It seems like all of us hired in and heard about how things used to be or how things have changed. As I look around these days, it has become clear that many of us are entering into the “old timer” category and in not to many more years we will be turning American over to the next generation of members.

When we hired in, we did not know what the good old days were; but after a few years of being mentored by the old timers - we all realized that the company has made several paradigm shifts over the years. What I believe we must do is stop allowing management as they once again attempt to divide and conquer us, as we work through these negotiations. We cannot look at our newer members as “them” and ourselves as “us.” We need to find ways to encourage the new generation of members to become active in "being union," by teaching and mentoring them on contract application and enforcement. It is critical that those of us who have been around for several years talk to newer members, about the current contract and why what’s in the book matters; even more-so after we reach a JCBA. I want to remind our members that without a union, we would not have the demand right to things like bidding our shift, selecting days off or vacation; but most importantly the right to our work scope that is the basis for our pay. Not to mention our right to file grievances, for things like a bypass on overtime, field trips, or discipline. Remember our members cannot be disciplined or terminated, without just cause; something non-unionmembers do not have. I recently spoke to two groups of non-union mechanics, one that was forced to work split shifts and another forced to work away from home for 30 days at a time; just to stay employed. Worse yet was the story I recently read about a non-union worker who was killed on the job, this time by lightning. This is why getting the language in our JCBA right matters so much to me.

So I say to all of you, both the old timers and the young guns, this is our time. We must reignite our passion for the best contract in the industry; not one that is third or even second. While some of our younger members may not realize the importance of collective bargaining, their future will be determined by the success we are able to achieve at the bargaining table through this JCBA. It would have been easy for the negotiating committee to take the high road and negotiate a contract that was good, but that is not our objective. If the negotiating committee were to have done that, we would be done by now and we would have achieved mediocrity! While the time it is taking to reach this JCBA has been longer than any one of wanted, we are committed to delivering the contract that our members deserve. In closing, this JCBA is not just about money, it’s not just about work rules, it’s not just about scope, or even health and retiree benefits; it is about getting all of the Articles right for our members. We have one shot at transforming our membership into a galvanized group of proud union members, our success will be forever forged by our internal organizing movement and this JCBA. We will remain unified and stand-as-one, demanding nothing less than the industries best contract. I am thankful and proud of the membership for giving me the strength and desire to strive for excellence in this agreement. I often remind members that you control our destiny; I am proud to be your voice at the bargaining table. Without your support there would be little that I alone could accomplish, and we will achieve the best contract in the industry by remaining unified.

Gary Peterson
President local 591

 

[WeAAsles]

In Theory; a solid cap on part time, by specific station staffing, would produce eventual shifts to FT. The problem is, to my knowledge, no such cap exists in either current contract. Part time ratio is determined on a system wide basis under LUS contract with IAM. Not sure what language exists in the AA contract with the TWU. I believe the IAM contract at UA forfeited any part time caps. Another Article and language that deserves attention and assigned priority IMO.

NYer is much better than me at explaining our PT system I'll readily admit.

Something I was thinking about though. There are many of us out there who have time now who aren't exactly PT worker friendly.

Maybe it would be wise of us to remember that if it wasn't for the PT program/language we might have never got our jobs in the first place? In most cases at AA PT is the key to unlocking the door to get in. (Was just thinking out loud on that)

 

[WeAAsles]

10 hour shifts are more productive for the company...DFW had around 120 10 hour shifts for a bid and opened 5 more gates without adding a head...it's really simple math, 2 10s and a 4 covers a day instead of 3 8s...hence less FT and more PT...

I remembered that bid and didn't take one right off the bat. I didn't think it was that many shifts (120)

I also remember and the mind is getting a little fuzzy that a motion was filed to get rid of it cause guys didn't like that they weren't getting OT for working over 8 in a day? (What I recall)

All I know is one bid only and it was gone.

 

[NYer]

Playing devils advocate NYer, there are more folks who do not work overtime, especially daily, even during a union sponsored ban, and I'm pretty sure that close to if not more folks do not use CS's as extra vacations or as a FT to PT crutch. They are just happy they are there when needed. I will give you that CS's play an important role when used as a tool to commute, but that is something that should be addressed in negotiations, getting these folks back home. So, in my opinion, your argument that 4/10's harm those who prefer OT and multiple CSing opportunities is not a strong argument. My one vote would be more 4/10 shifts. But, I'm good either way.

Quite obviously, those that don't work OT or need the flexibility of CS's prefer the 4/10's. On the other hand, the opposite is also true.

Going on historical trends from the mediation in 2008-2009, then the BK, many of the Fleet stations that had 4/10's spoke against it and even worked at eliminating them in the stations that scheduled their shifts with 4/10's.

Also, it is certain many would enjoy the 4/10's but it is also true that subject was not part of any JCBA survey, that I've seen, as a priority.

If the Members clamor for it then it should be included in future negotiations, but it doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment.

 

[ograc]

Quite obviously, those that don't work OT or need the flexibility of CS's prefer the 4/10's. On the other hand, the opposite is also true.

Going on historical trends from the mediation in 2008-2009, then the BK, many of the Fleet stations that had 4/10's spoke against it and even worked at eliminating them in the stations that scheduled their shifts with 4/10's.

Also, it is certain many would enjoy the 4/10's but it is also true that subject was not part of any JCBA survey, that I've seen, as a priority.

If the Members clamor for it then it should be included in future negotiations, but it doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment.

The 4/10, imo, allows Corporate Staffing to effectively use the FT workforce to supplement the PT workforce. End result is FT opportunity is limited or eliminated. Of course when both FT and PT pay the same dues.....

 

[ograc]

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

 

[ograc]

Thinking Towards The Future as We Fight for Today

As we enter this next phase of negotiations, I want to emphasize the importance of understanding what we are working for - not only for current, but also future members. It seems like all of us hired in and heard about how things used to be or how things have changed. As I look around these days, it has become clear that many of us are entering into the “old timer” category and in not to many more years we will be turning American over to the next generation of members.

When we hired in, we did not know what the good old days were; but after a few years of being mentored by the old timers - we all realized that the company has made several paradigm shifts over the years. What I believe we must do is stop allowing management as they once again attempt to divide and conquer us, as we work through these negotiations. We cannot look at our newer members as “them” and ourselves as “us.” We need to find ways to encourage the new generation of members to become active in "being union," by teaching and mentoring them on contract application and enforcement. It is critical that those of us who have been around for several years talk to newer members, about the current contract and why what’s in the book matters; even more-so after we reach a JCBA. I want to remind our members that without a union, we would not have the demand right to things like bidding our shift, selecting days off or vacation; but most importantly the right to our work scope that is the basis for our pay. Not to mention our right to file grievances, for things like a bypass on overtime, field trips, or discipline. Remember our members cannot be disciplined or terminated, without just cause; something non-unionmembers do not have. I recently spoke to two groups of non-union mechanics, one that was forced to work split shifts and another forced to work away from home for 30 days at a time; just to stay employed. Worse yet was the story I recently read about a non-union worker who was killed on the job, this time by lightning. This is why getting the language in our JCBA right matters so much to me.

So I say to all of you, both the old timers and the young guns, this is our time. We must reignite our passion for the best contract in the industry; not one that is third or even second. While some of our younger members may not realize the importance of collective bargaining, their future will be determined by the success we are able to achieve at the bargaining table through this JCBA. It would have been easy for the negotiating committee to take the high road and negotiate a contract that was good, but that is not our objective. If the negotiating committee were to have done that, we would be done by now and we would have achieved mediocrity! While the time it is taking to reach this JCBA has been longer than any one of wanted, we are committed to delivering the contract that our members deserve. In closing, this JCBA is not just about money, it’s not just about work rules, it’s not just about scope, or even health and retiree benefits; it is about getting all of the Articles right for our members. We have one shot at transforming our membership into a galvanized group of proud union members, our success will be forever forged by our internal organizing movement and this JCBA. We will remain unified and stand-as-one, demanding nothing less than the industries best contract. I am thankful and proud of the membership for giving me the strength and desire to strive for excellence in this agreement. I often remind members that you control our destiny; I am proud to be your voice at the bargaining table. Without your support there would be little that I alone could accomplish, and we will achieve the best contract in the industry by remaining unified.

Gary Peterson
President local 591

Well written. A very insightful message. A must read in my book.

 

[Koolcat]

We're not talking "what if's," we're talking about today.

Most places got rid of their 4/10 shifts. It drags down OT and hinders CS's.

You are correct

 

[anotherdelay]

You are correct

right there is everything that is wrong with us. I don't know if 10 hr shifts restricts employment, but to even worry about it cutting into c/s's and ot, even after getting these substantial raises, just strikes me as odd. throw in, the jobs that have been outsourced, and will continued to be outsourced, thanks to leaders like Trumka always fighting the wrong fight. And maybe I'm out the loop, I've always been of idea most junior people who were stuck on nights for 10 years starting out, wanted more weekends off, and flexible start times so they could be home with family more. And who can find weekends off consistently most of the time, unless you have a premiere shift.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Loony tunes probably only worked a few years before he decided he wasn't man enough and cut his nose off to spite his face, bet he was like that from birth.

Says the washed out electrician.