JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[CremaDiLimone]

I've talked to some IAM guys who have the philosophy that only Management should tell Workers what to do. I think they're out of their minds on that one.

They need to come here to MIA and get to know some of these CSM's. They have ZERO clue. And I'm not just spouting a Union line. They seriously have zero clue.

And there is no argument you can give me for giving them any responsibility or the ability to perform my work (Outside of my refusal for unsafe conditions)

i believe this issue is not moot, but not much of an issue in top-heavy twu stations. the new 'lead' will still be like a c/c, the liaison between mngt. and fleet service. it will take at least 1-2 generations of workers to erase the old twu-aa cc way and get with the iam program.

those with the biggest problem with this issue are the laa c/cs themselves...who sense that the days of watching tv in an air conditioned ready room are over.

i understand and sympathize, but to me, this is not an issue to make a stand on.

 

[WeAAsles]

i believe this issue is not moot, but not much of an issue in top-heavy twu stations. the new 'lead' will still be like a c/c, the liaison between mngt. and fleet service. it will take at least 1-2 generations of workers to erase the old twu-aa cc way and get with the iam program.

those with the biggest problem with this issue are the laa c/cs themselves...who sense that the days of watching tv in an air conditioned ready room are over.

i understand and sympathize, but to me, this is not an issue to make a stand on.

You're probably right about the top heavy TWU Stations and maybe we got it all wrong but I'm just repulsed period at the idea of Management "directing" me or even "assisting" me.

They have their place and their role to play and I have mine. Just don't think the two should commingle is all.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i see it with united at my station...they work, but they pick and choose when to get stuck in. some leads are gold to their crew, others are sleepwalking. united mngt. at their HQ doesn't seem to be very hands-on, from what i have seen.

same at aa. some crew chiefs like to get out and load, water the plane..hook up tow bar. others liked to sit in ready room all day. with the scanning done now, they have to be outside, so, not sure how bad it could get; if they take 1 guy off each gate crew it will get nasty.

 

[swamt]

I don't think it will happen because of the me too clause all the other groups have in their contracts, that is a non starter for SWA !

At least AMFA is trying. The teamsters never lifted a finger when it came to medical in almost 40 years, that speaks volumes. There are ways around the me too clause. Just like the pilots just did with their "full retro" They allowed the co. to call it a bonus. Fine with us as long as it equals "full retro" just like the pilots. The co. not following thru with this would speak volumes on how the company won't treat the employees the same within the company. I'm not saying give us pilot pay, I am saying give us what is deserved to us in back pay just like they did for the pilots and it must equal what "full retro" would be and yes the co. can call it a bonus or a pc of pie if they feel better about it, I don't care. There are ways around me-too clauses. I tip my hat to AMFA for nego. a cap and other options for our spiraling out of control medical cost and at least trying. teamsters never did that, and they would always say, they can do that brother because it's not in the contract. So medical cost just skyrocketed.

 

[anotherdelay]

i see it with united at my station...they work, but they pick and choose when to get stuck in. some leads are gold to their crew, others are sleepwalking. united mngt. at their HQ doesn't seem to be very hands-on, from what i have seen.

same at aa. some crew chiefs like to get out and load, water the plane..hook up tow bar. others liked to sit in ready room all day. with the scanning done now, they have to be outside, so, not sure how bad it could get; if they take 1 guy off each gate crew it will get nasty.

Can't imagine the disorganized mess you'd have in Mia, ord, lax, dfw without a cc load planning, and fixing all the errors. Plus so many crews work so well together, on crucial flts, management never has to be out there, and handle all the contingencys. One oso operation...pfft

Predection, if cc goes away to lead, it will be back in less than 6 months as the capable cc's wash their hands and watch the operation go down since they'll stop being d1's or leads. Loads right now is a mess.

 

[Albert]

You're probably right about the top heavy TWU Stations and maybe we got it all wrong but I'm just repulsed period at the idea of Management "directing" me or even "assisting" me.

They have their place and their role to play and I have mine. Just don't think the two should commingle is all.

Assisting you directing you????? I thought that was an AA thing. Weez we hardly had any management around until after the AA merger then the flood gates opened. I also think they will be the first to go if things start going south

 

[Albert]

Can't imagine the disorganized mess you'd have in Mia, ord, lax, dfw without a cc load planning, and fixing all the errors. Plus so many crews work so well together, on crucial flts, management never has to be out there, and handle all the contingencys. One oso operation...pfft

Predection, if cc goes away to lead, it will be back in less than 6 months as the capable cc's wash their hands and watch the operation go down since they'll stop being d1's or leads. Loads right now is a mess.

Do you guys have difficulty pulling up and complying with a load plan? What is it F@@kin rocket science?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Can't imagine the disorganized mess you'd have in Mia, ord, lax, dfw without a cc load planning, and fixing all the errors. Plus so many crews work so well together, on crucial flts, management never has to be out there, and handle all the contingencys. One oso operation...pfft

Predection, if cc goes away to lead, it will be back in less than 6 months as the capable cc's wash their hands and watch the operation go down since they'll stop being d1's or leads. Loads right now is a mess.

agreed 100%. remember, it was aa that wanted 'jr. fleet service' in the 1995 contract and within a year, i believe, aa reached out to the union and got rid of it.

ord and jfk are not phx, where some of these new aa big-shooters come from...with nice weather and no banks. oso, things get out of control very quickly. the want the planes locked up x-amount of minutes before the schd. departure...the c/c is scanning outside and still needs to finalize the loads in computer. if some freight or mail comes late..all the late gate bags that keep coming down the dumbwaiter/slide.....oops, time to call dallas...and you get a visit from mngt.

the c/c premium pay could never be high enough. i feel that a $39.00 top out rate (differential not included) for c/c-lead is fair.

 

[robbedagain]

22 years ago I stopped having an immediate Boss or Manager that I had to answer to, and I like it that way VERY much. Nothing personal to quite a few CSM's that I know and have met over the years who are capable and non bothersome.

Ugh though. Just the thought of being given instructions by "suits" again gives me the serious creeps.

under the LUS for the most part mgmt. left us alone after the merger and other changes associated with it it all went down hill Talked to a good buddy of mine yesterday and he said it was real bad in the afternoon as it has been planes waiting to be parked some took 30 plus or minus delays due to personal shortages and multiple flights Today the bid came out the mgrr she loves to cover it up with having mixed lines but it shows good on paper but not in reality all she worries about is fleet launch

 

[cltrat]

Assisting you directing you????? I thought that was an AA thing. Weez we hardly had any management around until after the AA merger then the flood gates opened. I also think they will be the first to go if things start going south

I don't understand this whole lead/CC thing except the CC makes .59 cents more than I do. In CLT you might see a CSM walking around but that's just because he can say he did. He sure isn't running things on each gate.
The lead pulls the load plan tells his guys when to be out there to load it, most all leads scan, hard to trust every person to do it right when your the guy signed in to it.. I could easily go thru a shift without ever speaking to a CSM.
As far as CC's changing to leads all I hear when I wonder about a change made is that's the way they do at AA it as a stock answer

 

[WeAAsles]

agreed 100%. remember, it was aa that wanted 'jr. fleet service' in the 1995 contract and within a year, i believe, aa reached out to the union and got rid of it.

ord and jfk are not phx, where some of these new aa big-shooters come from...with nice weather and no banks. oso, things get out of control very quickly. the want the planes locked up x-amount of minutes before the schd. departure...the c/c is scanning outside and still needs to finalize the loads in computer. if some freight or mail comes late..all the late gate bags that keep coming down the dumbwaiter/slide.....oops, time to call dallas...and you get a visit from mngt.

the c/c premium pay could never be high enough. i feel that a $39.00 top out rate (differential not included) for c/c-lead is fair.

Junior FSC lasted till 2001.

""Rumor"" was the Company did approach the TWU about dumping it but they said no. ""Rumor""

 

[Jester]

22 years ago I stopped having an immediate Boss or Manager that I had to answer to, and I like it that way VERY much. Nothing personal to quite a few CSM's that I know and have met over the years who are capable and non bothersome.

Ugh though. Just the thought of being given instructions by "suits" again gives me the serious creeps.

I predicted the issue of CC/Lead responsibilities and authority as being a sticking point in the JCBA a couple of years ago, and has been given little attention. In PHX, "I.A.M." came to mean "I'll Ask Management" and I observed the differences with the AA side of operations with the CCs becoming the buffer between the generally incompetent Management and ramp agents.

That being said, I also observed CCs who avoided most of the physical work appearing only when it was time to load the plane. It was a rather stark contrast between PHX Leads who typically set-up equipment, marshaled in planes, grabbed gate valets, hooked-up air and power, assisted in down load, checked water, execute the load plan, close-out the flight, and then push back the plane.

My biggest objection in my observations to the CCs were their overall disengagement from the physical work and the primary "qualification" to becoming a CC was that the person had higher seniority (and difficult to remove regardless of abilities).

 

[CremaDiLimone]

as far as jr. fleet service:

no, i don't think so....i distinctly remember the company reaching out to the union to get rid of 'jr. fleet service'. i knew the local twu president at the time and remember asking him why didn't the union ask for anything in return for something the company wanted, got and then wanted to get rid of.

the 1995 contract was a glorious hoodwink of aa over the twu. the company knew that things were going to go very well and played poor. we lost 1 week vacation and TOS didn't really move at all. crandall had threatened to move out of ord for mci.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't understand this whole lead/CC thing except the CC makes .59 cents more than I do. In CLT you might see a CSM walking around but that's just because he can say he did. He sure isn't running things on each gate.
The lead pulls the load plan tells his guys when to be out there to load it, most all leads scan, hard to trust every person to do it right when your the guy signed in to it.. I could easily go thru a shift without ever speaking to a CSM.
As far as CC's changing to leads all I hear when I wonder about a change made is that's the way they do at AA it as a stock answer

Someone just assure me that no CSM is going to walk into my gate and give me a job assignment, not going to pull a trip sheet or finalize a flight, get in any bellies, run bags and finally touch a bag or escort in the future TA when it comes for me to vote on and all will be cool?

This talk that Management does "things" we don't want them doing just keeps coming back to my ears no matter how many times I try to shake it off? It's like the Vampire that won't die?

 

[WeAAsles]

as far as jr. fleet service:

no, i don't think so....i distinctly remember the company reaching out to the union to get rid of 'jr. fleet service'. i knew the local twu president at the time and remember asking him why didn't the union ask for anything in return for something the company wanted, got and then wanted to get rid of.

the 1995 contract was a glorious hoodwink of aa over the twu. the company knew that things were going to go very well and played poor. we lost 1 week vacation and TOS didn't really move at all. crandall had threatened to move out of ord for mci.

My buddy (1998) was JFSC all the way to 2001 in pay and then he only moved up to the next step on the ladder.

I hired in May of 1995 and I topped out in 8 years. Another guy I know who came in Nov of 1995 it took him 14 years to TOS.

Some cities did have Airport minimums though so they couldn't legally hire at the bottom of scale.