JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[CremaDiLimone]

Under your scenario here Crema I just cannot accept Leads over Crew Chiefs. There are items in the IAM contract I can either live with or get used to. But any idea that lends any possibility to a Manager giving me directions over a Union Member CC is an absolute thumbs down, NO VOTE from me.

If I worked in a factory it would be the dirty and grimy Shop Foreman who tells me what to do, not the fat white shirt and tie boss.

i understand...but, i'm afraid that all of us laa guys will have to get used to this.

some of the older c/cs i know say, "bring it on". they are confident there are enough easy spots (manning, for example) to ride the storm out to retirement.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Ok so you believe that AA (Parker/BOD) went down to 3% because they didn't like how high the wages were going at other Airlines? But then he/they decided to be kind and institute PS?

the profit sharing program appeared to be reactionary from the company.

- everyone, especially above the wing, was complaining about it..in relation to their peers at ua and especially dl.

- a few weeks earlier, the company announced very generous bonuses (17%) for level 5 managers and above.

the rub is there that the company decided to give us this paltry profit sharing only because of the bonuses. everyone is that dumb to be happy about $2,000 and will forget that a level 5 manager got a check for $16,000? the profit sharing plan had to be in the works/developed due to plans for bonuses and it was only activated due to the bonuses.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Too many in my Seniority range have become fat and weak honestly.

achtung. this sounds plagiarized from a speech from a goebbels or himmler, circa 1940.

 

[Talos]

Priorities don't disappear because a union does.

Without the Association we'd be fighting each other at a more heightened fashion or do you believe the IAM Members would just wilt away?

The problem is the process was altered and the members had no say. Even with one union representing all people could vote and have their say. It's hard to argue with an established process and fight each other.At least the members can vote, and people can agree to disagree. Altering the process has gone strongly in the company's favor.

 

[NYer]

Disagree.

Don't think this process would have been any quicker or easier simply because of the Association.

The issues are complex and the language is vastly different. Once the JCBA comes out we will get a better picture and a better understanding of the challenges.

I know most look at holidays, double time, sick days, vacation and those sorts of traditional things but the changes in language will be the biggest bone of contention one it is released.

 

[AANOTOK]

Disagree.

Don't think this process would have been any quicker or easier simply because of the Association.

The issues are complex and the language is vastly different. Once the JCBA comes out we will get a better picture and a better understanding of the challenges.

I know most look at holidays, double time, sick days, vacation and those sorts of traditional things but the changes in language will be the biggest bone of contention one it is released.

Most on the TWU side look at the things you mentioned above. I believe the IAM is focused on the medical. I will also say it's because of the Association that this has dragged out so long. IF a vote would have been taken, MORE THAN LIKELY the TWU would have been the chosen one. Even you stated that negotiations are to get the best contract for the most members. Will we get a better contract because of the Association? Or will we get a better contract despite the Association?? One thing we do know and Parker has made it clear, we will not be getting the best of both contracts. So we wait and see how it all plays out.

 

[lax]

Your assumption is incorrect.

December 2014: LAA made an offer of an extra 4% raise for everyone in the airline, with those still in negotiations to receive the 4% once they had a JCBA. (at the time it put them 3% above Delta)

The APFA was the first group with a deal and took immediate advantage of the 4%. That raise combined with their contractual raise brought the F/A to Delta +7.

September 2015: Delta gives their employees 14.5% raise.

October 2015: CWA agents receive offer of "new" Delta +3.

The change in Delta +7 to Delta +3 was because of the large raise they received.

Since then, Delta +3 has become UA +3 since they surpassed Delta in wages.

weasel i hate to get involved in you and nyers love affair but this description was what i recall happening. furthermore i can tell you that the pot better be full of honey if I'm going to vote yes on any jcba that includes the pos iam cs policy or lead work rules. the last thing we need around here are csm's directing the workforce. i believe a while back i suggested that prez or cb go back and renegotiate those items. can't speak for all laa but i know those 2 items are very important to many people. yea yea weasel i know u don't pick up shifts or ot. so for you maybe we can get penalty hrs back

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You work for American Airlines, Inc. not the Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO.

Subject to any CBA in effect, when management says "jump" you say "how high".

Which entity provides your medical coverage? Which entity advances your ePay remittances? Which entity allows you space available travel across their system, in accordance with company policy?

Josh

And in 1995 (?) which entity made the arbitrary, subjective judgement to hire you likely amongst dozens, possibly hundreds of others who possess(ed) a valid drivers license and could successfully pass a background check?

WeAA you are right AA is your customer so you should do as they ask within reason. Relative to the education and credentials required for FSC you are making out quite well as a TOS. When are you transferring to FLL to work with your IAM brothers? FLL is a dump, btw.

Josh

You are attempting to have a sane conversation with insane people. These people are the result of years of UNION propaganda and entitlement. They have minimum wage qualifications and want professional pay simply because they believe being a member of a UNION entitles them to it.

They never talk about what they offer the company, never. You only hear them talk about what the company owes THEM.

Don't ever assume looking back that I don't appreciate my career for the most part.

And now I am making out quite well. Couldn't always make that claim though and there were prices I paid to get here today let's not leave out. Many bumps and potholes were on that road.

FLL? Who knows? We'll see?

Nobody is assuming anything.

You have 11,819 posts (as of now) making your viewpoints and expectations quite clear.

I work for American Airlines under Contract. I am a Contractor providing a service to American Airlines. In a way American Airlines is my customer and its customers provide my continued employment.

And when Management through my Crew Cheif asks me to jump, I inform them that jumping is unsafe and I refuse to do so on that basis.

The Space Available travel is a very nice and appreciated gesture (gift) provided to me by American Airlines (But it's not in my contract)

If you are a contractor working under the Association then shouldn't American Airlines pay the association for your services?

Then the Association can dictate your pay and benefits.

That is how every other third party contractor works.

I guess you just want to have your cake and eat it to. The benefit of being on company payroll and the perk of hiding behind "contractor" status to refuse compliance with management's instructions.

Entitlement at it's finest.

 

[NYer]

Most on the TWU side look at the things you mentioned above. I believe the IAM is focused on the medical. I will also say it's because of the Association that this has dragged out so long. IF a vote would have been taken, MORE THAN LIKELY the TWU would have been the chosen one. Even you stated that negotiations are to get the best contract for the most members. Will we get a better contract because of the Association? Or will we get a better contract despite the Association?? One thing we do know and Parker has made it clear, we will not be getting the best of both contracts. So we wait and see how it all plays out.

I guess it's easy to assume the TWU would win a vote because we are bigger in numbers, but we also have low voter turnout which could offset that supposed advantage.

Setting that aside, the issue isn't necessarily the IAM or the Association because the agreement is with the Company.

In negotiations the Company looks at the industry and what their costs are plus the structure of their deals. That's the basis of their position. That wouldn't necessarily be different if it was the Association, the TWU or the IAM across the table.

I'd presume, the focus for the TWU (if negotiating alone) would have been a reincarnation of "Restore and More." You think that would have made a quick deal?

The only time we've had a quick negotiations is when we've had our backs against the wall.

 

[WeAAsles]

achtung. this sounds plagiarized from a speech from a goebbels or himmler, circa 1940.

Animal House Niedermier, 1978.

 

[WeAAsles]

weasel i hate to get involved in you and nyers love affair but this description was what i recall happening. furthermore i can tell you that the pot better be full of honey if I'm going to vote yes on any jcba that includes the pos iam cs policy or lead work rules. the last thing we need around here are csm's directing the workforce. i believe a while back i suggested that prez or cb go back and renegotiate those items. can't speak for all laa but i know those 2 items are very important to many people. yea yea weasel i know u don't pick up shifts or ot. so for you maybe we can get penalty hrs back

I've talked to some IAM guys who have the philosophy that only Management should tell Workers what to do. I think they're out of their minds on that one.

They need to come here to MIA and get to know some of these CSM's. They have ZERO clue. And I'm not just spouting a Union line. They seriously have zero clue.

And there is no argument you can give me for giving them any responsibility or the ability to perform my work (Outside of my refusal for unsafe conditions)

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA sounds like MIA is a lot like BWI whereas mgmt. is as clueless as they get Ive always heard that at LAA the TWU would take care of telling workers what to do but may be it was when LAA had BWI Ive seen at LUS and since then time after time the double standards mgmt. at bwi give to select individuals while others get off scott free and it still happens to this day That is one of the most biggest if not the absolute huge reason why BWI for AA has lost more people is due to mgmt. and the behavior displayed by mgmt. Ive known and talked to peeps in CLT who used to work at BWI love it in CLT bec mgmt. does not do the bs crap bwi mgmt. does so when you say clueless I know what you me bro

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA sounds like MIA is a lot like BWI whereas mgmt. is as clueless as they get Ive always heard that at LAA the TWU would take care of telling workers what to do but may be it was when LAA had BWI Ive seen at LUS and since then time after time the double standards mgmt. at bwi give to select individuals while others get off scott free and it still happens to this day That is one of the most biggest if not the absolute huge reason why BWI for AA has lost more people is due to mgmt. and the behavior displayed by mgmt. Ive known and talked to peeps in CLT who used to work at BWI love it in CLT bec mgmt. does not do the bs crap bwi mgmt. does so when you say clueless I know what you me bro

22 years ago I stopped having an immediate Boss or Manager that I had to answer to, and I like it that way VERY much. Nothing personal to quite a few CSM's that I know and have met over the years who are capable and non bothersome.

Ugh though. Just the thought of being given instructions by "suits" again gives me the serious creeps.

 

[Albert]

I work for American Airlines under Contract. I am a Contractor providing a service to American Airlines. In a way American Airlines is my customer and its customers provide my continued employment.

And when Management through my Crew Cheif asks me to jump, I inform them that jumping is unsafe and I refuse to do so on that basis.

The Space Available travel is a very nice and appreciated gesture (gift) provided to me by American Airlines (But it's not in my contract)

Weez I'm not getting your point with the difference between Leads and crew chiefs oh and Weez if in Bankruptcy a judge abrogated your contract who would have decided your fate the TWU or AA, What would happen if we decided to vote the union out who would you work for then.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez I'm not getting your point with the difference between Leads and crew chiefs oh and Weez if in Bankruptcy a judge abrogated your contract who would have decided your fate the TWU or AA, What would happen if we decided to vote the union out who would you work for then.

Don't know 100% Al because I'm not LUS where the philosophy (being organized only since 1995) seems at least quite different than what I'm used to.

Second question you already know that answer. I do what's needed to be done Al.

If the Union was ever voted out I'd apply for Management the next day. Might as well since either way I have no "employment contract" and I wouldn't spin my wheels for years trying to get it back and I might as well make more money and do less physical labor. (Your question gave me a no win scenario IMO)