JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Your assumption is incorrect.

December 2014: LAA made an offer of an extra 4% raise for everyone in the airline, with those still in negotiations to receive the 4% once they had a JCBA. (at the time it put them 3% above Delta)

The APFA was the first group with a deal and took immediate advantage of the 4%. That raise combined with their contractual raise brought the F/A to Delta +7.

September 2015: Delta gives their employees 14.5% raise.

October 2015: CWA agents receive offer of "new" Delta +3.

The change in Delta +7 to Delta +3 was because of the large raise they received.

Since then, Delta +3 has become UA +3 since they surpassed Delta in wages.

UA plus 3%? Where have you seen or heard UA plus 3% since October? We received 1% above UA Ramp.

The PSA as I recall went to $29.27 when they passed their agreement. Who at Delta were they being compared to and what was that wage rate?

Ok so you believe that AA (Parker/BOD) went down to 3% because they didn't like how high the wages were going at other Airlines? But then he/they decided to be kind and institute PS?

I'm sorry but that really doesn't make sense. Did the revenue environment between AA and their competitors suddenly change?

Maybe we need to take a little look see at old "Airline Financials" or "The Airline Data Project" to get a gauge on our little conundrum here?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Crema all I've said is I'd like to give them back the PS if that's what it took to strike an agreement back to 7%.

I never talked about the CS, Leads, Shift Dif or others in my comment.

i understand that..

regardless of cs, leads, shift diff...7% more than ua erodes quickly because they do get shift diff and will still get profit sharing, as we will not, in your scenario. in a very good year, they will earn more than us with the PS. to me, unacceptable.

we know (you argue that how do we know?) without knowing, the company wants a few things. i'd say insurance is their #1 objective. i don't believe they wish to outsource anything. if they do 'on paper', it's a nego ploy..

we need some arrows in our quiver for the next contract.

let the company talk up how they are too skillful and took away insurance, contractualized/streamlined the cs policy and will get more productivity and control over the workforce with a lead instead of a cc.

no other 'concessions'. no contracting out work, no ridiculous scope numbers. they are getting plenty back from all of us in times of unprecedented profits.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW NYer as of April 1 Delta Ramp (TOS Wages) went to $30.15 which is currently .2 cents shy of where we are currently before the 2.1% contractual raise next month.

But just on "Direct Wage" compensation (All in FT TOS) alone both UAL and DL are more advanced than we are due to a better PS formula payout and other contractual items.

I'm wondering at the end of the day will we have just "Industry Leading Wages" or an "Industry Leading Contract"?

 

[WeAAsles]

i understand that..

regardless of cs, leads, shift diff...7% more than ua erodes quickly because they do get shift diff and will still get profit sharing, as we will not, in your scenario. in a very good year, they will earn more than us with the PS. to me, unacceptable.

we know (you argue that how do we know?) without knowing, the company wants a few things. i'd say insurance is their #1 objective. i don't believe they wish to outsource anything. if they do 'on paper', it's a nego ploy..

we need some arrows in our quiver for the next contract.

let the company talk up how they are too skillful and took away insurance, contractualized/streamlined the cs policy and will get more productivity and control over the workforce with a lead instead of a cc.

no other 'concessions'. no contracting out work, no ridiculous scope numbers. they are getting plenty back from all of us in times of unprecedented profits.

Under your scenario here Crema I just cannot accept Leads over Crew Chiefs. There are items in the IAM contract I can either live with or get used to. But any idea that lends any possibility to a Manager giving me directions over a Union Member CC is an absolute thumbs down, NO VOTE from me.

If I worked in a factory it would be the dirty and grimy Shop Foreman who tells me what to do, not the fat white shirt and tie boss.

 

[NYer]

UA plus 3%? Where have you seen or heard UA plus 3% since October? We received 1% above UA Ramp.

The PSA as I recall went to $29.27 when they passed their agreement. Who at Delta were they being compared to and what was that wage rate?

Ok so you believe that AA (Parker/BOD) went down to 3% because they didn't like how high the wages were going at other Airlines? But then he/they decided to be kind and institute PS?

I'm sorry but that really doesn't make sense. Did the revenue environment between AA and their competitors suddenly change?

Maybe we need to take a little look see at old "Airline Financials" or "The Airline Data Project" to get a gauge on our little conundrum here?

It's not a conundrum, your assumption of the DL+7 going to DL+3 as tied to the PS is simply incorrect.

Example: October 2015, Dallas News: "The deal for American’s gate agents is for “new Delta” plus 3 percentage points. The new refers to an increase that Delta awarded most employees in mid-September: a raise of 14.5 percent. Delta kept its profit-sharing but changed the formula."

This was the birth of Delta +3

PS was announced in March of 2016 & the APFA also had another 6% raise that April. So...PS is not tied to wages.

 

[NYer]

UA plus 3%? Where have you seen or heard UA plus 3% since October? We received 1% above UA Ramp.

With the Wage Adjustment we are 1% above UA. With a JCBA we should be at least 3% above.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's not a conundrum, your assumption of the DL+7 going to DL+3 as tied to the PS is simply incorrect.

Example: October 2015, Dallas News: "The deal for American’s gate agents is for “new Delta” plus 3 percentage points. The new refers to an increase that Delta awarded most employees in mid-September: a raise of 14.5 percent. Delta kept its profit-sharing but changed the formula."

This was the birth of Delta +3

PS was announced in March of 2016 & the APFA also had another 6% raise that April. So...PS is not tied to wages.

PS is a cost item to the Company that can be utilized in other areas if it wasn't being diverted as a percentage to employees instead.

But ok to try and backpedal from our consistent arguments since Parker never actually stated why he went back on his words, I'll simply go back to a line I've used in the past.

3% is subpar. (Although he hasn't even been saying that anymore either)

 

[WeAAsles]

With the Wage Adjustment we are 1% above UA. With a JCBA we should be at least 3% above.

Should be if we're willing to chose to just forget about the originally promised 7% above NYer?

But I do like how you say "At least" when you mention the now old 3% line.

Let's see if the Company bests the competition on our contracts in other areas to make it palatable to pass?

(And you could be right that people's expectations are just a little bit too high out there?)

 

[737823]

There are items in the IAM contract I can either live with or get used to. But any idea that lends any possibility to a Manager giving me directions over a Union Member CC is an absolute thumbs down, NO VOTE from me.

You work for American Airlines, Inc. not the Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO.

Subject to any CBA in effect, when management says "jump" you say "how high".

Which entity provides your medical coverage? Which entity advances your ePay remittances? Which entity allows you space available travel across their system, in accordance with company policy?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

You work for American Airlines, Inc. not the Transport Workers Union, AFL-CIO.

Subject to any CBA in effect, when management says "jump" you say "how high".

Which entity provides your medical coverage? Which entity advances your ePay remittances? Which entity allows you space available travel across their system, in accordance with company policy?

Josh

I work for American Airlines under Contract. I am a Contractor providing a service to American Airlines. In a way American Airlines is my customer and its customers provide my continued employment.

And when Management through my Crew Cheif asks me to jump, I inform them that jumping is unsafe and I refuse to do so on that basis.

The Space Available travel is a very nice and appreciated gesture (gift) provided to me by American Airlines (But it's not in my contract)

 

[737823]

I work for American Airlines under Contract. I am a Contractor providing a service to American Airlines. In a way American Airlines is my customer and its customers provide my continued employment.

And when Management through my Crew Cheif asks me to jump, I inform them that jumping is unsafe and I refuse to do so on that basis.

The Space Available travel is a very nice and appreciated gesture provided to me by American Airlines (But it's not in my contract)

And in 1995 (?) which entity made the arbitrary, subjective judgement to hire you likely amongst dozens, possibly hundreds of others who possess(ed) a valid drivers license and could successfully pass a background check?

WeAA you are right AA is your customer so you should do as they ask within reason. Relative to the education and credentials required for FSC you are making out quite well as a TOS. When are you transferring to FLL to work with your IAM brothers? FLL is a dump, btw.

Josh

 

[AANOTOK]

Honestly AANOTOK the only place I'm seeing these types of comments is on here and occasionally through the Ramp rumor mill?

Can I (PLEASE) see something "In writing" that gives a 100% confirmation of these statements?

Not arguing against appearances, just want absolute facts for a change?

Disclaimer: My previous comment was my opinion and my opinion only.
Disclaimer 2: In my opinion, there are other members who may POSSIBLY second my first opinion. 🙂

 

[WeAAsles]

And in 1995 (?) which entity made the arbitrary, subjective judgement to hire you likely amongst dozens, possibly hundreds of others who possess(ed) a valid drivers license and could successfully pass a background check?

WeAA you are right AA is your customer so you should do as they ask within reason. Relative to the education and credentials required for FSC you are making out quite well as a TOS. When are you transferring to FLL to work with your IAM brothers? FLL is a dump, btw.

Josh

Don't ever assume looking back that I don't appreciate my career for the most part.

And now I am making out quite well. Couldn't always make that claim though and there were prices I paid to get here today let's not leave out. Many bumps and potholes were on that road.

FLL? Who knows? We'll see?

 

[737823]

Don't ever assume looking back that I don't appreciate my career for the most part.

And now I am making out quite well. Couldn't always make that claim though and there were prices I paid to get here today let's not leave out. Many bumps and potholes were on that road.

FLL? Who knows? We'll see?

Fair enough. I was hoping I could catch you when I flew out on 275.

In all seriousness why are you working a narrowbody gate? Do you like bulk loading versus unit load?

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Fair enough. I was hoping I could catch you when I flew out on 275.

In all seriousness why are you working a narrowbody gate? Do you like bulk loading versus unit load?

Josh

I prefer bulk loading. I don't even want to rotate actually. It's my daily workout.

Too many in my Seniority range have become fat and weak honestly.