JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

Nyer,
my immediate response to that question would be:

Please Mr. NMB, explain why this group of workers need to "grab what they can today" when it is decidedly Below industry leading,
When this group of workers:
Has waited the longest under BK language, while the company has enjoyed 4 years of unprecedented profits,
of which, this group has gotten none of until last August with the raise and then a small profit sharing this year.
This group never got the 4% bump every other AA employee got 3+ years ago.
This group has toiled along with the industries worst benefits (save LUS health insurance) for 14+ years
This group was hurried to the table in 2003 to re write their contract and forced to take what the company wanted them to take and in record time 56 days.

No Mr. NMB, it's not incumbent on this group to "grab what they can today"

Your Question Mr. NMB should be directed at one person, Doug Parker and it should be:

Why is this group of workers still waiting for you to present them the industry leading contract you promised and can no doubt afford, or else how were you able to come up with an additional $900 million for 2 workgroups totally outside of contract language?

To be sure, NYer is right about the NMB. It wants a deal and it is a group of business peeps for the most part. Sorta like arbitrators who always will side with less than what we all believe is fair. That's why I supported the IAM/TWU refusing arbitration. In a twisted way, and only a matter of luck, the pilots and stews got a lot better deal by fighting after the arbitrator hammered them.

The NMB isn't going to tell labor EVER to hold out for more. I've dealt with the NMB over numerous cases over 30 years with various investigators and they don't have one ounce of Labor blood, as they are just facilitators in negotiations.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Negotiator William Fa posted this on my FB group

Seems as if every Labor Organization, except the IAM, understands solidarity 101. So sad.

 

[Traymark]

The NMB isn't going to tell labor EVER to hold out for more.

Show me where I said that?
It's time for the NMB to instruct the company deliver the contract you personally promised.
Industry leading!

 

[Albert]

Hence, the comprehensive proposal.

It may end up a package deal whereby you'll be able to get better language in Scope and the Pension in exchange for the Medical. The Association could drag things along in order to reach Section 6 and Mediation, but I believe that's why the NMB is already there and they would suggest things will not get better in a few years.

It may be presented as, "things may get worse later so why don't you grab onto what you can today." That would be especially true, Tim, if your suggestions of the IAM Pension Plan making changes over the next several months. Your assertion on that point seems to contradict the ability to hold things off for several years.

Tim is yelling "fire" in a movie theater AANOTOK is drilling the younger guys in the breakroom to "Duck and Cover"SWAMT is donning is Anarchist mask and the Weez is beating ploughshares. The Coneheads are hoarding canned goods for their shelters and Bob probably has his head buried between some strippers boobs.This is how negotiations work calm down

 

[NYer]

Nyer,
my immediate response to that question would be:

Please Mr. NMB, explain why this group of workers need to "grab what they can today" when it is decidedly Below industry leading,
When this group of workers:
Has waited the longest under BK language, while the company has enjoyed 4 years of unprecedented profits,
of which, this group has gotten none of until last August with the raise and then a small profit sharing this year.
This group never got the 4% bump every other AA employee got 3+ years ago.
This group has toiled along with the industries worst benefits (save LUS health insurance) for 14+ years
This group was hurried to the table in 2003 to re write their contract and forced to take what the company wanted them to take and in record time 56 days.

No Mr. NMB, it's not incumbent on this group to "grab what they can today"

Your Question Mr. NMB should be directed at one person, Doug Parker and it should be:

Why is this group of workers still waiting for you to present them the industry leading contract you promised and can no doubt afford, or else how were you able to come up with an additional $900 million for 2 workgroups totally outside of contract language?

Not sure where you got the impression to where I have indicated we should accept anything that is not deemed worthy. The exercise is simply to go over what the circumstances may end up being. At some point, a decision would need to be made whether to accept the current process or try to move into another.

In any event, there are consequences of any decision and we should engage in the conversation of what situations we may face and in that fashion we'd all be better prepared to make the correct decision once met with an opportunity to make one.

 

[Tim Nelson]

"There's a 5 year process they can trigger in another year and a half"

With that kind of thinking I can understand now why you said you won't be retiring till 70.

Math Tim. It's all somewhere in the Math.

We need a contract NOW but not with compromise that doesn't give us a great return. Health care is a deal breaker. Sure, if they give us a $5 per hour increase in wages to give us AA health care then sure our peeps will vote for it. But according to our negotiators, the comprehensive was not worth the paper it was written on. Until then, we have to fight for a very good cost positive JCBA.

 

[WeAAsles]

We need a contract NOW but not with compromise that doesn't give us a great return. Health care is a deal breaker. Sure, if they give us a $5 per hour increase in wages to give us AA health care then sure our peeps will vote for it. But according to our negotiators, the comprehensive was not worth the paper it was written on. Until then, we have to fight for a very good cost positive JCBA.

Actually looking just at the math for the MAX difference Rez posted between 2 costs it was $2.00 per hour or $4000.00 MAX (Out of pocket) Not $5.00 per hour. How many people by percentage hit that max per year BTW?

Didn't we all just get a $6.00 per hour increase in October and haven't we all received about a $10.00 per hour increase since this merger began? Does that or should that factor in at all to any sort of meaningful conversation here?

 

[Traymark]

Actually looking just at the math for the MAX difference Rez posted between 2 costs it was $2.00 per hour or $4000.00 MAX (Out of pocket) Not $5.00 per hour. How many people by percentage hit that max per year BTW?

Didn't we all just get a $6.00 per hour increase in October and haven't we all received about a $10.00 per hour increase since this merger began? Does that or should that factor in at all to any sort of meaningful conversation here?

There should be a conversation about the actual difference, not the assumed difference.
I'm just not sure the difference is huge, but I'm listening...

 

[WeAAsles]

There should be a conversation about the actual difference, not the assumed difference.
I'm just not sure the difference is huge, but I'm listening...

The "actual" difference for me is that I'm Divorced and had/have no children. The Medical conversation is not where my main focus is just like the IAMPF.

My focus is on SCOPE, wages and work flexibility quite honestly. Wages don't matter at all if you don't have a job so let's get that one out of the way. After that wages. The more I receive in direct wages the more flexibility I have to manage my finances as best I see fit (Including Medical and Retirement)

It's funny how everyone on here keeps trying to take wages out as the highest priority when we all know it is # 1.

I think some guys want it squirreled away into benefits cause they're ex wives will take em back to Court to up them Child support payments? I can sympathize with those guys. Not my issue but I can sympathize.

 

[swamt]

Sito did the same thing with United. They did the 'expedited negotiations' but it failed. In those negotiations, United Airlines and Smisek wanted complete contracting out. Never came to a vote. Then they went into regular negotiations I think (don't quite remember) and got TA1 which was a disaster but Sito labeled it as a Landmark industry best contract. No language, no part time restrictions, boatloads of temp workers like UPS, etc.

A comprehensive proposal that is acceptable hasn't been presented yet but it won't be presented if the IAM doesn't support the TWU. Alas, Association issues.

Could it be that the teamsters are trying to reflect the UPS language rules in the United contract? teamsters trying to mirror another teamsters contract? Except for the pay I might add.

We need a contract NOW but not with compromise that doesn't give us a great return. Health care is a deal breaker. Sure, if they give us a $5 per hour increase in wages to give us AA health care then sure our peeps will vote for it. But according to our negotiators, the comprehensive was not worth the paper it was written on. Until then, we have to fight for a very good cost positive JCBA.

Do you really think the guys at LUS would go for that? Wouldn't that bring in a cost to the LUS guys for the AA medical? So basically the $5 dollar raise would be null and void along with other language rules that will change. I would think you guys would want to keep the LUS medical and get the AA'ers up to the LUS medical in order to increase the AA'ers medical benefits.

Tim, I understand that the unions NC doesn't want the numbers published, however, could you or someone give an idea of how far off they are from say industry leading numbers to give the membership a small idea of where or how far apart they are? Is that too much to ask for as long as the actual numbers are not released? I mean at AMFA we get all the numbers that are in writing and passed across the table, why doesn't the asso. do the same? It stops all rumors and misinformation and keeps the membership fully aware of where the two sides are, which in my opinion would get a better response for the picketing IMO.

 

[AANOTOK]

Tim is yelling "fire" in a movie theater AANOTOK is drilling the younger guys in the breakroom to "Duck and Cover"SWAMT is donning is Anarchist mask and the Weez is beating ploughshares. The Coneheads are hoarding canned goods for their shelters and Bob probably has his head buried between some strippers boobs.This is how negotiations work calm down

Hey Al, have you ever been through negotiations with an Association? You have already stated you don't mind if these things drag out. I didn't say I blame you, and it looks as though you are getting your wish. So kindly take your Status Quo ass back to your work area and don't concern yourself with what I may or may not be saying to anyone in the breakroom.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey Al, have you ever been through negotiations with an Association? You have already stated you don't mind if these things drag out. I didn't say I blame you, and it looks as though you are getting your wish. So kindly take your Status Quo ass back to your work area and don't concern yourself with what I may or may not be saying to anyone in the breakroom.

For Al.

 

[Traymark]

The "actual" difference for me is that I'm Divorced and had/have no children. The Medical conversation is not where my main focus is just like the IAMPF.

My focus is on SCOPE, wages and work flexibility quite honestly. Wages don't matter at all if you don't have a job so let's get that one out of the way. After that wages. The more I receive in direct wages the more flexibility I have to manage my finances as best I see fit (Including Medical and Retirement)

It's funny how everyone on here keeps trying to take wages out as the highest priority when we all know it is # 1.

I think some guys want it squirreled away into benefits cause they're ex wives will take em back to Court to up them Child support payments? I can sympathize with those guys. Not my issue but I can sympathize.

I get it, different things are important to different people.
I don't have all the numbers, but our NC should and so does the company.

I'm sure they could use a spread sheet to show if we moved everyone in LUS over to comparable plans in the LAA health insurance, they come up with a number ~the difference~ what is that difference?

How big is that number?

Is it as simple as adding 2 personal holidays or something similar to everyone so the company can enjoy having the entire workforce on the same health insurance which maybe is a bit less at the end of the year.

Like you WeAAs, I would not benefit from LUS health insurance, mine is already at manageable number, but I'd be interested in knowing what the actual number is for the company. That difference can be made up elsewhere, it's not like the company is losing money, as we will all see Thursday.

 

[Albert]

Hey Al, have you ever been through negotiations with an Association? You have already stated you don't mind if these things drag out. I didn't say I blame you, and it looks as though you are getting your wish. So kindly take your Status Quo ass back to your work area and don't concern yourself with what I may or may not be saying to anyone in the breakroom.

It's okay vent your anger at me but you've been in the industry almost as long as me how many times have you heard they are far apart one day and the next day they have an 11th hour agreement. Again you don't have much to gain anyway surely not enough to have a bunch of you passing out on the 26th

 

[WeAAsles]

I get it, different things are important to different people.
I don't have all the numbers, but our NC should and so does the company.

I'm sure they could use a spread sheet to show if we moved everyone in LUS over to comparable plans in the LAA health insurance, they come up with a number ~the difference~ what is that difference?

How big is that number?

Is it as simple as adding 2 personal holidays or something similar to everyone so the company can enjoy having the entire workforce on the same health insurance which maybe is a bit less at the end of the year.

Like you WeAAs, I would not benefit from LUS health insurance, mine is already at manageable number, but I'd be interested in knowing what the actual number is for the company. That difference can be made up elsewhere, it's not like the company is losing money, as we will all see Thursday.

Sorry Traymark but when Tim mentioned waiting for Section 6 (1 1/2 years from now) adding 5 years on to that (After we just did 1 1/2 years) for a grand total in his words of 8 EIGHT years to come to a deal. (All so a minority could save 1 or 2 hundred a month on their Medical)

The days when I used to hang out in Crack Dens with needles hanging out of my arms came flooding back. Uh HELL NO, sorry. Uh uh.

Insanity has to eventually be taken care of IMO.