JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

I read our intial proposal regarding the health care article, and it seemed fineHowever i want to hear just 1 twu leader say that he is willing to support and fight to lower the TWU health care contributions instead of saying "well, flitters, the pilots caved so lus has to."

Because if there is division on this "deal breaker" item then there remains NOTHING to negotiate unless the company is willing to line item.

Health care is a deal breaker. Our members fought hard when everyone said we couldnt keepit thru 2 bankruptcies. Unless our leaders hand it away, we dont want to give it.

 

[WeAAsles]

I read our intial proposal regarding the health care article, and it seemed fineHowever i want to hear just 1 twu leader say that he is willing to support and fight to lower the TWU health care contributions instead of saying "well, flitters, the pilots caved so lus has to."

Because if there is division on this "deal breaker" item then there remains NOTHING to negotiate unless the company is willing to line item.

Health care is a deal breaker. Our members fought hard when everyone said we couldnt keepit thru 2 bankruptcies. Unless our leaders hand it away, we dont want to give it.

You have a TWU leader that continues to come on here and make comments that allude to you needing to relent on your Medical using the term

"Must have"

So instead of hitting me Tim who supports you and your Medical situation, maybe you need to whack him a little more.

I agree with the IAM in that the TWU Medical sucks absolute donkey balls. Why anyone wouldn't stand firm against donkey balls is beyond me?

 

[AANOTOK]

You have a TWU leader that continues to come on here and make comments that allude to you needing to relent on your Medical using the term

"Must have"

So instead of hitting me Tim who supports you and your Medical situation, maybe you need to whack him a little more.

I agree with the IAM in that the TWU Medical sucks absolute donkey balls. Why anyone wouldn't stand firm against donkey balls is beyond me?

Are those anything close to Mountain Oysters or Calf Fries, if so, they are damn good! 🙂

 

[WeAAsles]

Are those anything close to Mountain Oysters or Calf Fries, if so, they are damn good! 🙂

No our Medical is more like this. And having Prune Juice to drink it down with.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/haggis-recipe-1911083.amp

 

[NYer]

I read our intial proposal regarding the health care article, and it seemed fineHowever i want to hear just 1 twu leader say that he is willing to support and fight to lower the TWU health care contributions instead of saying "well, flitters, the pilots caved so lus has to."

Because if there is division on this "deal breaker" item then there remains NOTHING to negotiate unless the company is willing to line item.

Health care is a deal breaker. Our members fought hard when everyone said we couldnt keepit thru 2 bankruptcies. Unless our leaders hand it away, we dont want to give it.

There is a distinction here Tim. EVERYONE in the TWU, absolutely everyone, would love to have the IAM medical and I'm sure they'd be willing to fight for it.

However, the distinction is that LAA unions have been fighting against the medical changes for years, even before the BK. One of the biggest goals for the Company has been to have everyone in the same medical. They've almost accomplished that, mostly because of the BK, and now that they're in the last stage of the goal it seems highly unlikely they will relent on something that had been a "must have" for several years, going on a decade.

If the current CBA's were equal, as far as holidays, sick days and the such the TWU would sit next to the IAM and just wait it out.

The problem with that is that the priorities of the Memberships aren't aligned, mostly because of the shoddy information we've received since day 1. Many in the TWU are fighting for a deal because they want enhancements on financial items. The IAM is trying to hold onto what they have and are comfortable with the financial items.

You know how the Association can gain immediate solidarity?

By telling their groups this fight is about trying to get the medical the IAM has. That would bring both groups together and it may allow better enhancements in other areas because of the solidarity.

As it stands, we're projecting a divided Membership and leadership so advantage goes to Company. Even in these pages we're fighting each other based on which union we belong to because the priorities aren't aligned.

As we get closer to the protest the focus isn't on the Company is become TWU v IAM.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

In MIA this is the group you'd be talking about. And I would happily and gladly take OUR jobs back from them without even a minutes notice.

View attachment 11879

well, at least they have a cool symbol.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Update

Zero chance of a deal by end of summer.

P. Rez

i think you guys need to laugh at aa's negotiators and tell them that it's doug parker, himself, who inspires you to bargain for what they obviously perceive as outrageous demands.

doug parker inspires you because he can't stop telling the world that aa will never lose money again and going forward, aa will average $5 billion in average income per year...where this twu enhancement will cost aa a staggering $120 million and that twu enhancement will cost aa a shocking $260 million.

i have no doubt that aa is planning on those enhancements going to shareholders. aa will double it's dividend...that is guaranteed.

 

[P. REZ]

There is a distinction here Tim. EVERYONE in the TWU, absolutely everyone, would love to have the IAM medical and I'm sure they'd be willing to fight for it.

However, the distinction is that LAA unions have been fighting against the medical changes for years, even before the BK. One of the biggest goals for the Company has been to have everyone in the same medical. They've almost accomplished that, mostly because of the BK, and now that they're in the last stage of the goal it seems highly unlikely they will relent on something that had been a "must have" for several years, going on a decade.

If the current CBA's were equal, as far as holidays, sick days and the such the TWU would sit next to the IAM and just wait it out.

The problem with that is that the priorities of the Memberships aren't aligned, mostly because of the shoddy information we've received since day 1. Many in the TWU are fighting for a deal because they want enhancements on financial items. The IAM is trying to hold onto what they have and are comfortable with the financial items.

You know how the Association can gain immediate solidarity?

By telling their groups this fight is about trying to get the medical the IAM has. That would bring both groups together and it may allow better enhancements in other areas because of the solidarity.

As it stands, we're projecting a divided Membership and leadership so advantage goes to Company. Even in these pages we're fighting each other based on which union we belong to because the priorities aren't aligned.

As we get closer to the protest the focus isn't on the Company is become TWU v IAM.

NYer,

I'm not going to get into details, but what I can say is that EVERY remaining item was less than industry or equal.

P. Rez

 

[swamt]

NYer,

I'm not going to get into details, but what I can say is that EVERY remaining item was less than industry or equal.

P. Rez

So where is the industry leading that was promised? This asso. from day one has made the promises that this JCBA will be industry leading in ALL areas when they were starting to combine. That is all the membership wants to know.

 

[Traymark]

the best I can respond to your post is that the proposal was by far lacking on every remaining issue that we don't have TA,d. Not just one or two issues. But lacking on all remaining issues. Wasn't even worth considering.

After over 4 years of absolutely obscene profits while we've been working under BK language for over 14 years now,
That is an embarrassment that should be hammered home to Mr Parker at his Thursday conference In front of God and everyone.
We need to fill that room and ask him over and over and over again why he can't give us the contract he promised.
Keep asking until they shut the conference down.
Parker needs to now take the responsibility for this and take the lead at concluding it, just as he did with the pilots and flight attendants just recently.

 

[WeAAsles]

So where is the industry leading that was promised? This asso. from day one has made the promises that this JCBA will be industry leading in ALL areas when they were starting to combine. That is all the membership wants to know.

Troll in the house. Don't feed the troll.

 

[AANOTOK]

Notock
I can speak for the IAM side and not the TWU. But the IAM has never released many details on negotiations. Yes that's frustrating I know. But the main reason is they know the company monitors all public forums. What if you heard specific details and 90% of the people on here think and start posting that they are good with that? What leverage does that give your negotiating team? Because I can guarantee you that it would be used against us when we are fighting for more in negotiations.

This might have been the case in the past CB, but today is a different time. We actually had leverage, we actually had balls to disrupt if you know what I mean. Now, the company holds all the strings, all the leverage, they run the show. We know what they want from us, they know what we will hold out for, there are no secrets. Yet the NC continues to play by the old outdated rules and keeps it members in the dark.
Again, anything talked about on this forums are no secret to AA, they know exactly what the members want. They have a dollar figure and that's what they are using...

 

[Tim Nelson]

There is a distinction here Tim. EVERYONE in the TWU, absolutely everyone, would love to have the IAM medical and I'm sure they'd be willing to fight for it.

However, the distinction is that LAA unions have been fighting against the medical changes for years, even before the BK. One of the biggest goals for the Company has been to have everyone in the same medical. They've almost accomplished that, mostly because of the BK, and now that they're in the last stage of the goal it seems highly unlikely they will relent on something that had been a "must have" for several years, going on a decade.

If the current CBA's were equal, as far as holidays, sick days and the such the TWU would sit next to the IAM and just wait it out.

The problem with that is that the priorities of the Memberships aren't aligned, mostly because of the shoddy information we've received since day 1. Many in the TWU are fighting for a deal because they want enhancements on financial items. The IAM is trying to hold onto what they have and are comfortable with the financial items.

You know how the Association can gain immediate solidarity?

By telling their groups this fight is about trying to get the medical the IAM has. That would bring both groups together and it may allow better enhancements in other areas because of the solidarity.

As it stands, we're projecting a divided Membership and leadership so advantage goes to Company. Even in these pages we're fighting each other based on which union we belong to because the priorities aren't aligned.

As we get closer to the protest the focus isn't on the Company is become TWU v IAM.

Yes, that would be nice but Cbrown indicated (unless I misread him) that the TWU leadership in negotiations hasn't really taken that stand.

I realize it isn't a perfect world, but the Association needs to show solidarity. No matter what me and you think. Just looks real bad that Sito and Samuelson couldn't work on getting a letter of support.

From my sources, we will have a contract this fall after re-enrollment. And that Sito will hand over our insurance but be able to buy 1 more year due to re-enrollment. Our AGC's don't know this.
Seems the company has some cards as well since 40% of the work in PHL where we have 1,600 fleet service, could be outsourced at any time, and a % of CLT. And it would be easier for the company to play such cards if the TWU and IAM are divided.

At any rate, the IAM Pension will make a cut within 18 months if not 6 months, and any such cut I believe will involve the unreduced funding policies. In other words, anyone with an IAM Pension will have to wait until they are 65. That could affect any buyout plan if the timing becomes a perfect storm.

[edit: maybe the company has a hold of the IAM balls and told them to stand down on the picket otherwise it would twist hard? Notice, the company sent express workers to work [train?] on some of those embrair's in phl. We had union peeps go tell the union but the union told them last week that there is nothing the union can do if the company takes that work. For starters, that would be 800 jobs in PHL and a decent chunk in CLT]

 

[anotherdelay]

So at LUS. Our members have a choice of 100, 90, or 80 percent coverage. At LAA you have 80 percent with no option. Not taking the whole time to get into all the specifics, but just comparing the LAA 80 to the LUS 80 for family coverage it's between 400 and 500 more a month. Not to mention the deductibles and max out of pocket for the year. So if your on the negotiating team for LUS? Are you going to agree with the company making billions for your members to go down to that insurance? And like I said, this is just one issue. The proposal fell short on all remaining articles. I can assure you as much as some in here want a contract. Speaking as a IAM member, as long as I have a say, I am not bringing out a cost negative contract to the LUS side when the company is making billions. Personally I don't call that being nutty. But you are entitled to your opinion.

what? we are approximately for a family of 4, 230 a paycheck. deductible 2000 per person, max 5000, not 8 for family.. express scripts for prescriptions and free for mental issues. So in total, we might have it cheaper than a part time us air guy. yeah that deductable is high, but you guys aren't making 16 bucks anymore. do our flight attendants still have their plan, everybody liked. We have pretty good medical.

 

[anotherdelay]

im just not buying our medical which could be better, should be the deal breaker.