JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[P. REZ]

I heard in PHX that you are telling peeps that they don't have to worry about the IAMNPF because it is guaranteed. If you are telling peeps that, then did you tell them that only a certain % is guaranteed?

The guarantee is only up to a max of $35 per month by the PBGC. But the PBGC is fixing to run out of money for multi employer plans by 2025 unless the Republicans push for higher premiums. Guess who pays the higher premiums? Yep, the Plan, so that increases liabilities as well.

Now, I don't believe our pension will need any PBGC funds since the Plan Trustees will just cut to the bone and have us fund our 'unfunded status' every 6th or so year. I mean they could let the plan dip below the green but then it loses control on the cuts and triggers another whole mess.

Based on the full time company contribution: they will get the max guarantee of $35. Presently, our full time rate is $1.30 or around $56 monthly benefit.

If Full Time Bobby works 10 years, his pension would be guaranteed at: around $350 a month.

Presently, a full timer would make about $560 for 10 years.

The plan will need a cut within 18 months, maybe as early as 6 months. I think the cut will be to eliminate all unreduced funding policies. That would mean that we couldn't retire with our full pension until we are 65. Airline peeps wouldn't like that. Of course, the other alternative is to create a Schedule C. Who knows but something gotta give. Then something gotta give 6 or so years later, again.

Tim,

You could have called me to see if true but you always have to try and make people look bad. I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension. I would never tell someone that because the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. C'mon Tim.

P. Rez

 

[NYer]

The company isn't too fond of continuing the IAMNPF but, to get a deal, I'm fairly sure the company would yield on that one as I can't see Sito signing any deal that doesn't include the IAMNPF continual funding for current participants, and forced participants for all new hires, regardless of TWU or IAM, and a choice for all TWU peeps who are currently employees.

The IAM medical has already been discussed as well. Formally, both Association members have already breached the topic with management. Not sure if anyone in negotiations knows but it has been broadly discussed. Company isn't too keen on having 30,000 leave its medical and join the IAM medical. Not sure how that one will go but I don't think it will be a deal breaker for anyone. LUS will get one more year under the current plan as I've been told that Sito will stall until at least the new enrollment to give some cover for the newly unexpected election. After that, who knows if the IAM medical comes to be. But Sito definitely is going to get rid of our current cost after that, regardless of what any AGC thinks or says. Remember, AGC's don't stand up to Sito. I mean they think they do, but not on the deal breaker stuff.
Who knows about the IAM medical? I mean, just like Blue cross, it depends upon the cost and insurability. Blue cross, Aetna, etc have hundreds of plans just like car insurance, so just beause something says "IAM Medical" doesn't mean squat, the plan could be good or it could be bad. I'll have to read the language as well. Wouldn't want to get on any insurability issues where things have to be whacked or increased like the pension if things go south.

Scope, I know the company wanted a snapshot, i.e. no new stations, regardless of flight activity. Yea, the party line is that they haven't talked about scope yet. lol. Believe me, the company, and the two association members know the deal breakers and the broad subject matter already framed. I don't see the Association taking the snapshot idea. In fact, I'd say that is prolly a deal breaker for the Association. Gosh I hope I'm right on that cuz we need more stations. Company doesn't want to be in the catering business but I gotta think that is a deal breaker for us {Man, hope so], so I think we will keep catering. It survived 2 bankruptcies so it ought to be grandfathered like all small stations that we have. No reason for any current work to be traded off.

So you think a comprehensive proposal is possible?

 

[NYer]

Tim,

You could have called me to see if true but you always have to try and make people look bad. I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension. I would never tell someone that because the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. C'mon Tim.

P. Rez

Do you think a comprehensive proposal is possible?

The negotiations are getting to the tough part and it is reasonable to expect the IAM to hold firm on their Scope and Medical. That being the case it may be a play for the Company to push an all-in proposal that would shore up the pension but at the cost of the medical and some scope language. They'd insist on it being sent for a vote, with the NMB also making that suggestion.

 

[P. REZ]

Do you think a comprehensive proposal is possible?

The negotiations are getting to the tough part and it is reasonable to expect the IAM to hold firm on their Scope and Medical. That being the case it may be a play for the Company to push an all-in proposal that would shore up the pension but at the cost of the medical and some scope language. They'd insist on it being sent for a vote, with the NMB also making that suggestion.

I think a comprehensive proposal in near future is possible, the forced vote NO!! We would negotiate off the comprehensive proposal as we did in past, IMO.

 

[AANOTOK]

I think a comprehensive proposal in near future is possible, the forced vote NO!! We would negotiate off the comprehensive proposal as we did in past, IMO.

Are y'all in negotiations today, P. REZ?

 

[P. REZ]

Are y'all in negotiations today, P. REZ?

Yes.

 

[AANOTOK]

OK, thanks.

 

[Traymark]

Tim,

You could have called me to see if true but you always have to try and make people look bad. I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension. I would never tell someone that because the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. C'mon Tim.

P. Rez

So I hallucinated that exchange we had about the IAMPF vs 401K?
I do find it funny how you seem to "misremember" your conversations about the pension.

BTW, are you & C. Brown pushing for an industry leading 401K Contribution to go along with industry leading health care, all in concert with Americans Dramatically Improved Financial Position of the last 4 years?
Because , I will remind all of you in case you forgot, American couldn't take our compensation away fast enough back in 2003 because of the dramatically deteriorating financial position.
Those were the "exact" words used back in 2003 when they hurried us to the table and re-wrote ALL 3 work groups in 56 days at the same time.
Yeah, it was damn complicated to remove language that had been in place for many years, but they got it done, and not a single problem getting meeting space and negotiating dates.
They went to DFW and stayed there until it was done.
there wasn't any "couple dates a month", it was completed in less than 2 months.
56 days.

Industry leading contract P.Rez.
If not now, then when can we expect a watershed contract with gains across the board?
Record Profits over the last 4 years.

We should be getting Free healthcare, it used to be Free, and guess what, they weren't making anything near the profits they are now.
So why shouldn't we expect gains everywhere?

The raise from last year (has it been that long?) just nearly brought us back up to where we would have been if we hadn't taken industry leading cuts 14years ago. It still fell well short of where it needed to be.

It's now time for the company to come correct.
I damn sure hope the NC reads this board, because anything less than industry leading across the board, would be an abject failure at this time with the profits this company has enjoyed on the backs of our labor and our 14+ years of give backs.

 

[NYer]

I think a comprehensive proposal in near future is possible, the forced vote NO!! We would negotiate off the comprehensive proposal as we did in past, IMO.

Fair enough.

 

[P. REZ]

So I hallucinated that exchange we had about the IAMPF vs 401K?
I do find it funny how you seem to "misremember" your conversations about the pension.

Traymark,

Yes, you are hallucinating, kindly find where I told anybody anything about a guarantee. What I said was without having a crystal ball and by doing math, I preferred the pension.

P. Rez

Read above.^^

 

[AANOTOK]

I have my complaints about the Association, and there is no secret I am no fan. My biggest gripe and one that has been filled with excuses by both the company, Association and even members here is the lack of meetings. This "need family time" or "no where to meet" or even "other obligations". Stop the crap, sit down and get this hammered out. Not sure who is lying here, but Isom stated they were "willing to meet anytime, anywhere, but takes two".

 

[NYer]

I have my complaints about the Association, and there is no secret I am no fan. My biggest gripe and one that has been filled with excuses by both the company, Association and even members here is the lack of meetings. This "need family time" or "no where to meet" or even "other obligations". Stop the crap, sit down and get this hammered out. Not sure who is lying here, but Isom stated they were "willing to meet anytime, anywhere, but takes two".

At this point, with the Executive Committee involved it seems less likely for the meeting times to become more concentrated. I only say that because they have other obligations to tend to in their respective unions.

 

[conehead777]

I have my complaints about the Association, and there is no secret I am no fan. My biggest gripe and one that has been filled with excuses by both the company, Association and even members here is the lack of meetings. This "need family time" or "no where to meet" or even "other obligations". Stop the crap, sit down and get this hammered out. Not sure who is lying here, but Isom stated they were "willing to meet anytime, anywhere , but takes two".

24 7 days a week like when they negotiated the pay cut contract. I haven’t herd any one in the Association that has said there willing to negotiate 24 7 but it needs to get done on both sides . You iam might be happy you have it better then us twu but even the iam is not industry leading tell sito to stop worrying about the iampf and get us a industry leading contract most twu dose not want the iampf . Sito is screwing us everyday plus stop traveling dfw should be fine hdq is here plus many hotels with meeting rooms there no excuse we do not have a industry leading contract except the Association

 

[Traymark]

At this point, with the Executive Committee involved it seems less likely for the meeting times to become more concentrated. I only say that because they have other obligations to tend to in their respective unions.

Back in early 2003, there were no other obligations that interrupted the sweet 56 days of re-writing years of language. And that was Pilots, FA's and all of TWU at the same time.
Really weird how that is...

 

[Jester]

... I can't see Sito signing any deal that doesn't include the IAMNPF continual funding for current participants, and forced participants for all new hires, regardless of TWU or IAM, and a choice for all TWU peeps who are currently employees...

Scope, I know the company wanted a snapshot, i.e. no new stations, regardless of flight activity.

I completely agree with you on these matters, as I am convinced there to be some grand puppeteer headed by the IAMNPF pulling hard on the strings to insure, at a minimum, some continuation of the pension by current US fleet agents, and ideally an inclusion of all fleet service agents into the plan. It is a matter of (short-term) survival, but I don't want my retirement to the fodder to keep this sickly plan alive towards its eventual demise.

In addition, the company can delete that "snapshot" as the combined operations should re-open several stations with a reasonable number of average daily (maybe 8?) mainline flights. There are a fair number of large cities which wouldn't be covered under the scope: SNA, SAT, MSY, IND, etc. Billions in profits and they are balking over additional stations covered under the scope?

Tim,
I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension.
P. Rez

I find it difficult to believe that with over 600 PHX fleet service agents, not one has asked you about the pension, especially when many of them should have retired years ago!

I have my complaints about the Association, and there is no secret I am no fan. My biggest gripe and one that has been filled with excuses by both the company, Association and even members here is the lack of meetings. This "need family time" or "no where to meet" or even "other obligations". Stop the crap, sit down and get this hammered out. Not sure who is lying here, but Isom stated they were "willing to meet anytime, anywhere, but takes two".

I appreciate that negotiations shouldn't be hurried, as it takes time to have both sides to have private discussions, examine counter offers, contemplate solutions, and to identify highest priorities knowing negotiations would be a matter of compromise. However, a few days of meeting once a month demonstrates a lack of commitment to closing a deal.

I am not sure as to where the problem lies, but I suspect the company may force the issue by throwing out a comprehensive proposal to be voted upon by the membership to end the gridlock with the mediator's backing.