JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Traymark]

Read above.^^

P.Rez,
Your level of nuance is stunning. You are perfect for union leadership, and you can take that any way you want, but I can assure you, it isn't a compliment.

Answer one question:
If we cannot get a watershed contract right now with the companies financial position at its all time high and every analyst calling for even more profits in the future after the merger synergies kick in,
When , exactly, should we expect to get real gains as in industry leading 401k Contribution, Health Care, Vacations, Holidays, etc...?

If not now, when?

 

[Kev3188]

Tim,
I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension...

P. Rez

Not once?
Interesting...

 

[cltrat]

Not once?
Interesting...

and difficult to believe

 

[Deleted member 14439]

So I hallucinated that exchange we had about the IAMPF vs 401K?
I do find it funny how you seem to "misremember" your conversations about the pension.

BTW, are you & C. Brown pushing for an industry leading 401K Contribution to go along with industry leading health care, all in concert with Americans Dramatically Improved Financial Position of the last 4 years?
Because , I will remind all of you in case you forgot, American couldn't take our compensation away fast enough back in 2003 because of the dramatically deteriorating financial position.
Those were the "exact" words used back in 2003 when they hurried us to the table and re-wrote ALL 3 work groups in 56 days at the same time.
Yeah, it was damn complicated to remove language that had been in place for many years, but they got it done, and not a single problem getting meeting space and negotiating dates.
They went to DFW and stayed there until it was done.
there wasn't any "couple dates a month", it was completed in less than 2 months.
56 days.

Industry leading contract P.Rez.
If not now, then when can we expect a watershed contract with gains across the board?
Record Profits over the last 4 years.

We should be getting Free healthcare, it used to be Free, and guess what, they weren't making anything near the profits they are now.
So why shouldn't we expect gains everywhere?

The raise from last year (has it been that long?) just nearly brought us back up to where we would have been if we hadn't taken industry leading cuts 14years ago. It still fell well short of where it needed to be.

It's now time for the company to come correct.
I damn sure hope the NC reads this board, because anything less than industry leading across the board, would be an abject failure at this time with the profits this company has enjoyed on the backs of our labor and our 14+ years of give backs.

ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING POST!!!!!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You could have called me to see if true but you always have to try and make people look bad. I haven't been talking about or even been asked about the pension. I would never tell someone that because the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. C'mon Tim.

P. Rez

Huh? I'm not sure how it made anyone look bad. Relax. I had an honest question because I didn't want to assume the news I received from PHX was accurate. They peeps who talked to me are both on here. Not calling them liars, I just wanted to get your response. That's not a bad thing is it? And I'd actually prefer things on record. Just a preference, don't take it personal, not trying to make anyone look bad.

 

[Koolcat]

Anybody knows what Danker put out regarding the AA Beacon settlement???

 

[Tim Nelson]

So you think a comprehensive proposal is possible?

On the one hand, they are sunk politically if we lose health care. On the other hand, they have pressure to get something signed soon before the IAMNPF does another cut. That cut can be announced as early as November but no later than the next 18 months.

Or they could pull a "Pontius Pilot" and bring out an awful deal, from a LUS perspective, but a good deal from a TWU perspective. Thereby appearing to wash their hands, telling peeps to vote no, but knowing LUS health care will not survive when the majority of any vote will be wearing TWU patches.It would be a phony sell.

Things came to a halt after the DOL agreed with me over the IAM hotshot attorneys for a new vote. They thought they were in for 4 years. No doubt they would have folded but things have stalled after I C Blocked them.

 

[NYer]

Back in early 2003, there were no other obligations that interrupted the sweet 56 days of re-writing years of language. And that was Pilots, FA's and all of TWU at the same time.
Really weird how that is...

I know it is popular and easy to go to 2003 but the situations are not nearly the same.

A building demolition is always faster than a construction project.

 

[P. REZ]

Not once?
Interesting...

Kev3188,

I give briefings on open items and the status of negotiations and the only question that comes up that I can remember, Health Insurance. Now I have briefed that the pension/401k is open but can't recall a specific question regarding it for many, many months. Don't get me wrong, it might of been brought up, but not to the point where it stands out in my mind. Health Insurance has been the big topic on everyone's mind.

P. Rez

 

[B737 driver]

No offense swamp, but why is AMFA taking 5 years over at SWA and now finally after holding so strong for so long about to roll over and accept binding Arbitration?

What a waste of time on that one.

Because they can't get the job done, we just wasted money on a Lawsuit trying to overturn a federal arbitrators decision on a arbitration we lost, what a shock, I wish you guys luck, you will have a deal to vote on before we do, at the rate we are going !

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Because they can't get the job done, we just wasted money on a Lawsuit trying to overturn a federal arbitrators decision on a arbitration we lost, what a shock, I wish you guys luck, you will have a deal to vote on before we do, at the rate we are going !

What type of cheese would you like to go with that WHINE ?

 

[Traymark]

Still waiting for an answer P. Rez:

Answer one question:
If we cannot get a watershed contract right now with the companies financial position at its all time high and every analyst calling for even more profits in the future after the merger synergies kick in,
When , exactly, should we expect to get real gains as in industry leading 401k Contribution, Health Care, Vacations, Holidays, etc...?

If not now, when?

 

[Traymark]

I know it is popular and easy to go to 2003 but the situations are not nearly the same.

A building demolition is always faster than a construction project.

I expected nothing less from you NY'er, because thats the card that continues to get played.
I've seen it mentioned on here, maybe by you," AA would give us the SW contract right now".

How can that be if it really takes literally years, apparently, to negotiate a contract?
Well, the truth is, it doesn't take years.
It took both the Pilots and Flight Attendants about 4 months, and not way way back in ancient times of 2003, this happened in December 2014 and January 2015.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...attendants-to-get-bigger-pay-raises-after-all
https://www.dallasnews.com/business...an-airlines-pilots-approve-new-contract-66-34

And then, way way back in April of 2017, after Parker said there would be "no soup for you" until your contract is up again, he magically found another $900 million in his pocket to hand out like candy to those same 2 groups (8% pilots/ 5% FA's).
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/sky-talk-blog/article146963454.html
That money bump happened literally as Isom was in Town Halls telling us they can't give us everything we want. You can't make this stuff up.

Lets go back to the "AA would give us the SW contract right now" , how bout this, lets go back to the AA contract of 2001, it's already written, just update the pay commensurate with the times and logical progression.
Not too complicated. It took 56 days to take it away, it could be restored in 1 day, with the appropriate bumps in compensation.

Your argument that "it's complicated" is really really weak sauce when you look at what has happened with other very large and complicated work groups like our Pilots and FA's, and also, what has happened with us , yes in the way way back times of 2003.

Someone please tell me , am I in OZ or some other make believe land here or
Are we getting seriously played, with the help of both of our current representative bodies?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I expected nothing less from you NY'er, because thats the card that continues to get played.
I've seen it mentioned on here, maybe by you," AA would give us the SW contract right now".

How can that be if it really takes literally years, apparently, to negotiate a contract?
Well, the truth is, it doesn't take years.
It took both the Pilots and Flight Attendants about 4 months, and not way way back in ancient times of 2003, this happened in December 2014 and January 2015.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...attendants-to-get-bigger-pay-raises-after-all
https://www.dallasnews.com/business...an-airlines-pilots-approve-new-contract-66-34

And then, way way back in April of 2017, after Parker said there would be "no soup for you" until your contract is up again, he magically found another $900 million in his pocket to hand out like candy to those same 2 groups (8% pilots/ 5% FA's).
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/sky-talk-blog/article146963454.html
That money bump happened literally as Isom was in Town Halls telling us they can't give us everything we want. You can't make this stuff up.

Lets go back to the "AA would give us the SW contract right now" , how bout this, lets go back to the AA contract of 2001, it's already written, just update the pay commensurate with the times and logical progression.
Not too complicated. It took 56 days to take it away, it could be restored in 1 day, with the appropriate bumps in compensation.

Your argument that "it's complicated" is really really weak sauce when you look at what has happened with other very large and complicated work groups like our Pilots and FA's, and also, what has happened with us , yes in the way way back times of 2003.

Someone please tell me , am I in OZ or some other make believe land here or
Are we getting seriously played, with the help of both of our current representative bodies?

BOOM!!!! We have a winner folks! Another OUTSTANDING post Traymark!

 

[NYer]

I expected nothing less from you NY'er, because thats the card that continues to get played.
I've seen it mentioned on here, maybe by you," AA would give us the SW contract right now".

How can that be if it really takes literally years, apparently, to negotiate a contract?
Well, the truth is, it doesn't take years.
It took both the Pilots and Flight Attendants about 4 months, and not way way back in ancient times of 2003, this happened in December 2014 and January 2015.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...attendants-to-get-bigger-pay-raises-after-all
https://www.dallasnews.com/business...an-airlines-pilots-approve-new-contract-66-34

The APA and APFA has a provision in their BK agreements which called for a specific negotiating period, I believe it was 150 days, and if no agreement was made consensually they would settle their JCBA in binding arbitration.

Don't believe you'd prefer that option.