JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[ograc]

Nope. No solidarity at all. It's just another indicator of how big a failure the association is. I'm sorry you did not get a golden invite to the activities on the 26th. Maybe you should be asking your people why that is. Solidarity huh? While the IAM continues to reap the benefits of this merger and enjoys a better can. You want Solidarity? We want parity. We want to be treated equally as our IAM counterparts.

Why settle for parity with IAM counterparts when there is much more to be gained for both LAA and LUS members? If that is all the LAA members are after then I suspect the next comprehensive proposals put forth by the company in negotiations will be that and only that. With the exception of the LUS medical and changes to the current LUS MOU concerning scope. We're allowing ourselves to be boxed in with this picketing idea. An idea that was not discussed among the entire NC; but put into play none the less. Demonstrates a lack of communication and solidarity even within the NC. Not a good message to send to the company at this time IMO. Informational picketing, on the surface seems to be an effective strategy, yet when done at the wrong time and lacking coordination and full support, can be very counter productive to the better good of the entire group. BTW... the traveling public could care less. IMHO

 

[AANOTOK]

Since we are not given any info, we do not have any idea why the stalemate. So do we go 5 years trying to hammer this thing out. I would be OK with that if I had a little info...Southwest employees are into 4 years, but at least they know why.

 

[ograc]

Since we are not given any info, we do not have any idea why the stalemate. So do we go 5 years trying to hammer this thing out. I would be OK with that if I had a little info...Southwest employees are into 4 years, but at least they know why.

I don't think we are at a stalemate. What we have is the painfully slow process of obtaining an industry leading JCBA. This objective takes time, commitment, solidarity and patience. The company is not going to cave on every Article in negotiations. Anyone who believed they would was being a little naïve and too optimistic. I believe most members want their NC to fight for everything that can be gained. Those who want only parity with LUS members are lowering the bar of what could and should be realized with any future JCBA with AA. A bar that will be in place for YEARS to come. Patience is a virtue. A virtue that not all members share. Haste makes waste in many cases.

 

[AANOTOK]

Let me ask you ograc, what then is your time frame before you realize you will have to compromise, not only with the company, but with the other half of the Association. We all want the best of both contracts, AA says you are not going to get that. Even some folks on the NC have warned us about that. Some folks on the AA side want restore and more, likewise, we have been told not to expect that. So again, when, where do you draw the line, 2,4,6 years. I'm going to guess you would say that it should be left up to the NC guys. I would agree, if they were keeping us up date on the issues. I/we then would have a voice when to possibly let our team know if something they feel should drag it out longer is not something we agree with.

Information is a very powerful tool.

 

[Traymark]

Speaking for fleet. I do wish the TWU guys would get more on board with demanding a better Insurance. Other than WeAAsles it seems most if not all are content on here with the current Laa insurance. I can assure you that it will take all 12 people at that table to have any chance of getting a better insurance than the LAA crap. And I don't uderstand why you have posters on here hell bent that we are going to the LAA insurance. Anyone that's been around for any length of time should know that once you give up insurance, your never getting it back. Why agree the the LAA insurance when this company is making billions. I just don't get it.

Tell you what CB, LAA will get on board and demand that we get the very best Health insurance in the industry, even better than the LUS insurance, right here, right now.
American is making so much money, they don't know what to do with it.
I'll start:
This should be THE watershed contract, across the board.
Now, how about we start to hear you and every other member of the NC to start demanding an industry leading 401K Contribution for every member that wants it instead of the IAMPF?
The 5.5% match is bankruptcy language, it's now time to march forward in the era of record profits in the billions yearly. Should be nothing less than a 10% Contribution and really should be 12%. That would be commensurate with Americans dramatic improvement in their financial position.

I understand your upset about the association. I agree with you. If I was the larger union ( by far ) I would have to ask why did we agree to the association. If you think about it, that kind of speaks volumes as to why the larger union felt like they needed to form an association.

I have to admit, you have some serious stones to ask this , as if to say , all of TWU was down with joining the association.
Jim Little = ONE PERSON, did this to us, without any vote.
If there was a vote, very likely both the IAM and TWU would be gone.

And btw, you are correct, the larger union should have been the one to stay, just like the pilots and FA's did it.
Consider yourselves very fortunate there were enough corrupt folks at the top to make the Association happen.

 

[Albert]

Let me ask you ograc, what then is your time frame before you realize you will have to compromise, not only with the company, but with the other half of the Association. We all want the best of both contracts, AA says you are not going to get that. Even some folks on the NC have warned us about that. Some folks on the AA side want restore and more, likewise, we have been told not to expect that. So again, when, where do you draw the line, 2,4,6 years. I'm going to guess you would say that it should be left up to the NC guys. I would agree, if they were keeping us up date on the issues. I/we then would have a voice when to possibly let our team know if something they feel should drag it out longer is not something we agree with.

Information is a very powerful tool.

AANOTOK how are you going to get out of this 26th picketing thing? Can I recommend another scene from Caddyshack "Ohh my arms broke"

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Why settle for parity with IAM counterparts when there is much more to be gained for both LAA and LUS members? If that is all the LAA members are after then I suspect the next comprehensive proposals put forth by the company in negotiations will be that and only that. With the exception of the LUS medical and changes to the current LUS MOU concerning scope. We're allowing ourselves to be boxed in with this picketing idea. An idea that was not discussed among the entire NC; but put into play none the less. Demonstrates a lack of communication and solidarity even within the NC. Not a good message to send to the company at this time IMO. Informational picketing, on the surface seems to be an effective strategy, yet when done at the wrong time and lacking coordination and full support, can be very counter productive to the better good of the entire group. BTW... the traveling public could care less. IMHO

Parity is but a minimum starting point. As far as being "boxed in" I don't see it that way. it does not matter when or where we picket or what action we take. There will always be those will a different idea what we should be doing. What is your idea? What should we be doing instead?

 

[anotherdelay]

bob are you really that uninformed on the twa issue? and everyone likes twa peers, but they almost got a lot of our jobs, it was never a merger, especially as the economy heading into a post y2k expansion slowdown, it was correctly termed a rescue mission, since they were hours away from b/k, and the merger was only agreed upon by all involved as long as they union employees didn't get their seniority. only 20 percent of twaay are thankful for that though, from pilots to rampers. the merger also had a very powerful politician behind it. that merger did lead to bond mckasgill, which iam gave the finger too. as for the contract next summer is the correct call, depending on the turn out next week, look for doug to mollify us by giving twu same holidays, and sick time so turn out guys.

 

[ograc]

Parity is but a minimum starting point. As far as being "boxed in" I don't see it that way. it does not matter when or where we picket or what action we take. There will always be those will a different idea what we should be doing. What is your idea? What should we be doing instead?

#1 Building solidarity. Realizing that both LAA and LUS members have a lot in common. Much has been sacrificed. Much needs to be gained. Realizing that this is the first chance to gain some of that back. Realizing this JCBA will not fully make whole the sacrifices already made. More focus and better communication from both the TWU and the IAM to this issue would be beneficial.
#2 Communication & Solidarity, not only among the members, but within the combined Association NC. Without both in place we are viewed as vulnerable and without threat. Continual political turnover on the NC, based on elections, during these critical times can be more of a handicap and sends a message to the company we are not united.
Consider the first two if you will. I guess the common thread is we should look first at cleaning up our own house.

 

[Albert]

Don't hold your breath for those holidays AW/US pilots and F/As never got parity until this AA merger. From a fleet point if we were given complete parity what would be the incentive to sign any contract. You see how the money we received slowed everything down

 

[Albert]

#1 Building solidarity. Realizing that both LAA and LUS members have a lot in common. Much has been sacrificed. Much needs to be gained. Realizing that this is the first chance to gain some of that back. Realizing this JCBA will not fully make whole the sacrifices already made. More focus and better communication from both the TWU and the IAM to this issue would be beneficial.
#2 Communication & Solidarity, not only among the members, but within the combined Association NC. Without both in place we are viewed as vulnerable and without threat. Continual political turnover on the NC, based on elections, during these critical times can be more of a handicap and sends a message to the company we are not united.
Consider the first two if you will. I guess the common thread is we should look first at cleaning up our own house.

Too late on all these items,closing the barn door .....

 

[ograc]

Too late on all these items,closing the barn door .....

Then history repeats itself... does it not?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Let me ask you ograc, what then is your time frame before you realize you will have to compromise, not only with the company, but with the other half of the Association. We all want the best of both contracts, AA says you are not going to get that. Even some folks on the NC have warned us about that. Some folks on the AA side want restore and more, likewise, we have been told not to expect that. So again, when, where do you draw the line, 2,4,6 years. I'm going to guess you would say that it should be left up to the NC guys. I would agree, if they were keeping us up date on the issues. I/we then would have a voice when to possibly let our team know if something they feel should drag it out longer is not something we agree with.

Information is a very powerful tool.

Lus doesnt have to compromise anything we already have. For who? We are in position to gain...Big League!
We are in position to take. In bankruptcy we were in position to give. In the meantime, we have the best job protection. Some contracts have no layoff protection but we have no displacement. The company is the one with its nuts in the vice. Twist the vice hard!

 

[conehead777]

Oh I agree that the IAM side had plenty of reasons for the association. We by far had less numbers than the TWU, and we also needed to protect our members seniority as much as possible, along with other issues. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can understand the bitterness some TWU members might have for the association if my union had the superior numbers, meaning over 50% of the combined work group. And I could have petitioned the nmb to be the surviving union of the merged group since I was the only union with more than 50%. There wouldn't have been an election unless the IAM had been able to get hundreds of cards singed in a short period of time. So I understand the bitterness if I'm twu. But yes the IAM had plenty of reasons for wanting the association being the union without 50% of the members.
And yes I'm sure Jerry is getting a nice full report, but just wanted to give the IAM,s side on solidarity, since several post was on here about "where is the IAM ". But I'll get off of here for now, and wish us all good luck in the next two weeks of negotiations.

Money and the iampf is what this association is about. The iam dose not care about members seniority they like the twu care about what the Intl president make over 250000 is what they care about. That’s why they are always screwing the members that is why we did not get to vote for this pos association. I’m sure the nmb got a nice payoff from the iam

 

[Tim Nelson]

Lus owes nobody. There isnt any evidence that we have to lose anything. Sure, id like more vacation and alot of other things but there isnt any reason to cash in some tenured chips to pay for things. We want it all. Why not? If it cant happen then i guess i just will have to live with no additional days off.