JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[cltrat]

I'm assuming you and ograc have a problem with this guy Mike Klemm? Honestly why?

I'm not sure but isn't he the one who helped fix the fiasco of the contract they had?

because he did the first UA contract which was an absolute turd, on top of that he got on here and other social media outlets and talked to members like they were a bunch of dumbass bag mashers. Highly unbecoming when said members are paying his over blown salary.
The UA members were of course proven to be right in the end. Then Munoz helped him out and gave him the money along with some things I'm sure you wouldn't want in our contract.
I don't care for the guy, I certainly don't trust him and I wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher.
Unfortunately the way the election rules are done we're pretty much stuck with him

 

[WeAAsles]

because he did the first UA contract which was an absolute turd, on top of that he got on here and other social media outlets and talked to members like they were a bunch of dumbass bag mashers. Highly unbecoming when said members are paying his over blown salary.
The UA members were of course proven to be right in the end. Then Munoz helped him out and gave him the money along with some things I'm sure you wouldn't want in our contract.
I don't care for the guy, I certainly don't trust him and I wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher.
Unfortunately the way the election rules are done we're pretty much stuck with him

Did this guy vote in any of those UAL contracts or did the (greedy) members? I say greedy because TA 2 had more money but the ability to close all those Stations and YES the members were the ones to jump on it. BTW what did they have prior to TA 2? Was it their BK contract? Could they have said no to both TA 1 and 2 and kept riding it out?

BTW don't worry about Klemm. He's not running a dictatorship in our negotiations and as you know I've stated enough times now, I trust our TWU guys.

 

[Traymark]

Ok,
another link from the IAM Pension web site.
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/72933/YFYC_April_2014.pdf

This one tells us 2 things:
1. ~ New Hires will be forced into it. I would expect that to be anyone that was hired post merger date.

Here's the pertinent text:
"While the NPP does not allow the exclusion of new hires, please note that we would permit and allow participation of
a new group consisting only of new hires (while excluding those employees still active in a company defined benefit plan that has been frozen to new hires). Contact your Pension Coordinator or the Fund’s Education Department for more information, but remember the National Pension Plan DOES NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF NEW HIRES."

2. ~ LAA peeps will likely NOT be forced into it, thats right, not a typo, but according to the text here they are saying that could be the case.
Please note the red text above!

So with this information that was posted on their website in April 2014, apparently,
I have to admit, I'm feeling just a bit better about being able to stay OUT of the IAMPF, but I'm not going let my guard down until I see the final text of any TA.

It is blatantly obvious EVERY new hire will be forced into it and NO current IAMPF member will be allowed to exit.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

the more i read about 2017 defined pensions x 401k plans and which is better...the more i realize just how much corporate america/1%ers have hoodwinked the american public. when corporate america can ghostwrite legislation to weaken unions and incentivize companies filing BK to screw blue-collar voters...well, we get what we deserve.

high-5s on the golf course. we have blue-collar workers bragging about the 401k (fund your own pension) and taking companies off the hook for pensions.

let's underfund a pension and then we'll watch them scream to get out of the pension and demand a 401k match. hmmm...instead of paying them $32,000 p/y in retirement, we'll give the majority $4,000 per year in 401k match.

fund your own pension.

i get the part that the nation has changed. i remember in 2013 forbes did a special on it's top 100 companies in 1983 x top 100 companies in 2013.

in 1983, i believe 92 out of the top 100 companies had a defined pension plan.
in 2013, i want to say 4 out of the top 100 had a defined pension plan.

that is the new usa.

 

[Tim Nelson]

the more i read about 2017 defined pensions x 401k plans and which is better...the more i realize just how much corporate america/1%ers have hoodwinked the american public. when corporate america can ghostwrite legislation to weaken unions and incentivize companies filing BK to screw blue-collar voters...well, we get what we deserve.

high-5s on the golf course. we have blue-collar workers bragging about the 401k (fund your own pension) and taking companies off the hook for pensions.

let's underfund a pension and then we'll watch them scream to get out of the pension and demand a 401k match. hmmm...instead of paying them $32,000 p/y in retirement, we'll give the majority $4,000 per year in 401k match.

fund your own pension.

i get the part that the nation has changed. i remember in 2013 forbes did a special on it's top 100 companies in 1983 x top 100 companies in 2013.

in 1983, i believe 92 out of the top 100 companies had a defined pension plan.
in 2013, i want to say 4 out of the top 100 had a defined pension plan.

that is the new usa.

It's all about how much money the company is forced to contribute to a retirement. I don't think anyone is talking about 'letting the company off the hook'. Whether 401k or defined pension, the company cost will be the same. Even the wage adjustment acknowledged that. Moving forward, the question becomes if one is comfortable with the same $ going into the union bosses hands or going into a self managed account. If it goes into the Union Pension Bosses hands then the person acknowledges an almost immediate cut to help keep the checks flowing for retirees, although one could argue that poor investment choices may deplete 401k funds as well. Only a drunk would raise their hand and join the IAMNPF and hand their money to a fund that will have an immanent cut, and perhaps another cut every 4 or 5 years thereafter. Never mind that the union pension trustees are idiots like Sito and will do all they can to get kickbacks, even including buying $1,400 bottles of wine again on our dime. Bad.

 

[AANOTOK]

Brothers and Sisters,

I wanted to take a minute to address a few things in regards to the upcoming informational picket scheduled on Wednesday, July 26th, 2017.

The first thing I want everyone to understand, is that this picket isn't just being planned by Local 513. It's an equal and collaborative effort with all of the TWU Locals on the property here in DFW. Those Locals are 513, 567, and 591. Our Local, 513, has about 3900 members. Local 567 has over 500 mechanics here in DFW, with the bulk of them at the DWH hangar. Local 591 represents over 3800 line mechanics and Stores Clerks system-wide, and over 1100 of those are here in DFW.

The Presidents of these three Locals are all members of the Negotiating Committees for Fleet Service and Maintenance. The Negotiating Committee members have been sitting at the negotiating table for nearly two years, fighting to secure the very best contract they can for us. We've asked a lot of our negotiating team, and not once since they've sat down with the company have they asked us for anything. Now they've asked for the memberships' help, and what they're asking us to do doesn't require much effort on our part at all. They're simply asking us to show up on the picket line on July 26th as a show of solidarity. That's not much, considering all we've asked of them.

Further, we have contacted all the other Unions on the property, and received a swift response from the Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Passenger Service Agents that they will mobilize their memberships, and fully support us on the picket line.

We also have full support of all the Local Presidents around the system, as well as the support of ourInternational Leadership.

Finally, I understand everyone wants to know each and every detail in regards to the picket. Rest assured, you will be fully informed oneverything you need to know in advance. Every detail of this picket is strategically planned and well thought out, including when to release exact details.

Make no mistake, on July 26th a message will be sent. A large turnout shows that we're tired of workingunder a contract that was forced upon us in bankruptcy, and a small turnout shows that we're good with whatever we get, whenever we get it.[/QUOTE]

Once again, not one mention about our "Association" brothers and sisters. What a freaking farce. We were sold on "strength in numbers" with this scam, but in reality it does nothing more than allow the big boys of both unions to maintain their handsome salaries.
Checkmate, you win!

 

[Tim Nelson]

[

me either

lol. So sad that Klemm and the law firm put out a letter threatening the United people with "This is the best you can get, if you vote no again, a TA3 will never happen."

Could it repeat itself? Certainly. If the TWU and IAM peeps agree to toss out all union rules including new language that crosses out any part-time restrictions and includes unlimited temporary employee language, and tosses out the medical plan and 40 stations.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Whether 401k or defined pension, the company cost will be the same. Even the wage adjustment acknowledged that.

c'mon. if this was the case, why are companies all over the usa ditching defined pension plans if it's costs are the same as matching up to a tiny % of what it's employees put in their 401ks?

as far as the rest, i can't argue...i don't know what occurs at the top and i'm not familiar with the iam.

right now, aa has $15 billion in frozen pension obligations. how many years would it take aa to put $15 billion in it's employees' 401ks?

 

[WeAAsles]

the more i read about 2017 defined pensions x 401k plans and which is better...the more i realize just how much corporate america/1%ers have hoodwinked the american public. when corporate america can ghostwrite legislation to weaken unions and incentivize companies filing BK to screw blue-collar voters...well, we get what we deserve.

high-5s on the golf course. we have blue-collar workers bragging about the 401k (fund your own pension) and taking companies off the hook for pensions.

let's underfund a pension and then we'll watch them scream to get out of the pension and demand a 401k match. hmmm...instead of paying them $32,000 p/y in retirement, we'll give the majority $4,000 per year in 401k match.

fund your own pension.

i get the part that the nation has changed. i remember in 2013 forbes did a special on it's top 100 companies in 1983 x top 100 companies in 2013.

in 1983, i believe 92 out of the top 100 companies had a defined pension plan.
in 2013, i want to say 4 out of the top 100 had a defined pension plan.

that is the new usa.

BAM!!!!!! Homerun just hit High into the upper bleachers.

 

[Tim Nelson]

c'mon. if this was the case, why are companies all over the usa ditching defined pension plans if it's costs are the same as matching up to a tiny % of what it's employees put in their 401ks?

as far as the rest, i can't argue...i don't know what occurs at the top and i'm not familiar with the iam.

right now, aa has $15 billion in frozen pension obligations. how many years would it take aa to put $15 billion in it's employees' 401ks?

It is this case. And we aren't talking about traditional defined benefit plans. We are talking about multi employer plans. Big difference. Read up on union pensions as opposed to traditional defined pensions and you will have a different perspective. You would have to.

If TWU peeps are confronted with the choice of having the company contribute 9% to a 401k, or a conversion of that % into a hourly dollar amount, the question won't be why would the company offer a choice but rather which choice is more beneficial and what is the health or potential of each choice. That's what each member will have to process individually.

 

[Albert]

Brothers and Sisters,

I wanted to take a minute to address a few things in regards to the upcoming informational picket scheduled on Wednesday, July 26th, 2017.

The first thing I want everyone to understand, is that this picket isn't just being planned by Local 513. It's an equal and collaborative effort with all of the TWU Locals on the property here in DFW. Those Locals are 513, 567, and 591. Our Local, 513, has about 3900 members. Local 567 has over 500 mechanics here in DFW, with the bulk of them at the DWH hangar. Local 591 represents over 3800 line mechanics and Stores Clerks system-wide, and over 1100 of those are here in DFW.

The Presidents of these three Locals are all members of the Negotiating Committees for Fleet Service and Maintenance. The Negotiating Committee members have been sitting at the negotiating table for nearly two years, fighting to secure the very best contract they can for us. We've asked a lot of our negotiating team, and not once since they've sat down with the company have they asked us for anything. Now they've asked for the memberships' help, and what they're asking us to do doesn't require much effort on our part at all. They're simply asking us to show up on the picket line on July 26th as a show of solidarity. That's not much, considering all we've asked of them.

Further, we have contacted all the other Unions on the property, and received a swift response from the Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Passenger Service Agents that they will mobilize their memberships, and fully support us on the picket line.

We also have full support of all the Local Presidents around the system, as well as the support of ourInternational Leadership.

Finally, I understand everyone wants to know each and every detail in regards to the picket. Rest assured, you will be fully informed oneverything you need to know in advance. Every detail of this picket is strategically planned and well thought out, including when to release exact details.

Make no mistake, on July 26th a message will be sent. A large turnout shows that we're tired of workingunder a contract that was forced upon us in bankruptcy, and a small turnout shows that we're good with whatever we get, whenever we get it.

Once again, not one mention about our "Association" brothers and sisters. What a freaking farce. We were sold on "strength in numbers" with this scam, but in reality it does nothing more than allow the big boys of both unions to maintain their handsome salaries.
Checkmate, you win![/QUOTE]
It doesn't mention if you should bring your own Gatorade . Though I'm sure there is well intent it won't make a bit of difference in the progress of talks, none. There may be some camaraderie among the ranks though. And A lot of beer bellies a real lot

 

[Tim Nelson]

Once again, not one mention about our "Association" brothers and sisters. What a freaking farce. We were sold on "strength in numbers" with this scam, but in reality it does nothing more than allow the big boys of both unions to maintain their handsome salaries.
Checkmate, you win!

Due to pressure, my understanding is that Sito will offer a letter of support. He may actually offer more than a letter and have the IAM join in on the picket, but he is presently uncomfortable with that idea.

I remain disappointed and imo a letter only is a joke.

 

[Albert]

Due to pressure, my understanding is that Sito will offer a letter of support. He may actually offer more than a letter and have the IAM join in on the picket, but he is presently uncomfortable with that idea.

I remain disappointed and imo a letter only is a joke.

Maybe they are making progress and picketing would be considered unproductive. Personally all I think it will accomplish is AANOTOK and his boys are going to sweat through a couple of Tee shirts so if you have stock in Proctor and Gamble..... I take that back more like "Waste Management" cause those things are going in the trash

 

[swamt]

You write some funny stuff. Lets go through your post item by item shall we.
1. Are you just as dissapointed as when you were unsuccessful at stapling the AirTran mechanics to the bottom of your list?
2. Conspiracy theory much? The AMFA drive was derailed because AMFA relied on a grass-roots card drive rather that invest the time and $$$ to make it successful. And when the card drive was unseccessful, then AMFA was "hoping" for a vote. Since a vote never happened, bye bye the AMFA.
3. You need to get a clue, The IAM represented groups are not under a BK CBA anymore. Sure there are remnents in the agreement, but it is by no means an entirly BK agreement.
4. I'm glad to hear that the AMFA doesn't care about FLeet, I'm sure your TWU and IAM brothers and sisters would love to hear this, and when the AMFA asks for their support if a strike was ever to occur, do you think they should support the AMFA since you don't give 2 SHITES about fleet or customer service because they are not on the list of related? With comments like this, I would hope they tell the AMFA to go pound sand.
5. Of course I have no clue how AMFA runs, I'm not a member nor would I want to be.
6. Please do not stop, you are very entertaining. I never asked you to leave, or post in a different thread, this thread pertains to JCBA negotiations, whether a MTC or Fleet agent posts here, it is all shared and could potentially affect both workgroups. What bothers me is you posting on here like you have inside information, yet you don't even work for either LAA or LUS.

1 AirTran Mechanics were not stapled to bottom of our list.
2 Completely wrong. Not a conspiracy at all, facts that actually happened.
3 I do have a clue. TWU (more than half of the members in tyhis asso.) are still living under a BK contract. You are correct that IAM guys are not living any longer with the full BK contract they had not very long ago, but also as you state there are still left over BK items you are living under. I don't know the exact numbers but say 75% is TWU and IAM guys are still under some BK language then I would put it at approx 80% of the members are living under a BK contract, and this is why I called it as such.
4 AMFA has asked for past support from the very groups you ask about, those groups were more than willing to cross AMFA's picket lines, hence the AMFA/NWA fiasco strike.
5 Nor will you ever be.
6 I know you never have asked me to leave. Pretty sad that an outsider knows more than most all the members in this asso. or at least more than what you guys are being told by this asso. actually it's pathetic and embarrassing if you ask me or the majority of your asso. members.
7 Any more questions you need clarified?

 

[cltrat]

Did this guy vote in any of those UAL contracts or did the (greedy) members? I say greedy because TA 2 had more money but the ability to close all those Stations and YES the members were the ones to jump on it. BTW what did they have prior to TA 2? Was it their BK contract? Could they have said no to both TA 1 and 2 and kept riding it out?

BTW don't worry about Klemm. He's not running a dictatorship in our negotiations and as you know I've stated enough times now, I trust our TWU guys.

it's an easy out to blame members rather than the person who brings the deal and sells it like a snake oil salesman, despite him calling members who said it would happen uninformed or dumb. They downsized CLE before the ink was practically dry.
sorry he played to the fact that unfortunately many members will see that one thing about a deal they like and run to vote for it.
I'l be surprised if many LAA and LUS members don't do the same thing