JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[pjirish317]

Again, when Parker welcomed the Association, he knew exactly what was coming with it, and it wasn't a quick contract.

Let me ask irish, our contract currently states that if I'm bypassed for dayoff overtime, I'm entitled to 8 hours pay while sitting at home. We here at AA call that rocking chair money. On the other hand, your contract states that with your bypass, you are offered hours at another time to make up for what you missed out on. Should we at AA hold out for our language or concede yours...I think they already have a T/A on that and I'm not sure which way they went, just curious if you think that is something we should never give up.

AANOTOK,
I would love to see the OT bypass go to the stronger LAA language, and possibly enhanced if that is possible. Like rat said, we had that before, and lost it in BK1 I think. No way should the Association concede to the lesser language. On ANYHTING. That's just my opinion and what comes out for a vote will be an entirely different story.

 

[pjirish317]

First, scope ~ no way it stays at 15 per day, that number will higher, not lower.

Second, medical ~ You are correct, there is "no good reason" you should give it up, but give it up Sito will do , and I've posted on here before about his.
If anybody thinks the fact that there was no representation vote for the Association did come with a price, when all the company had to do was trigger one by disputing the forming of it to the NMB,
it was well within their right to do so,
You are about the find out what that price was.

A representation vote could have removed one or both of the IAM and TWU, no vote, they both stayed and continued collecting dues, largely because American Airlines let them stay.

Please give me your facts as to why Fleet should believe anything you say, you have no dog in this fight for Fleet scope.

I will ask you simple questions so you might be able to answer.
1. Why do you "assume" the scope will be "higher" than 15 a day?
2. Why do you care what Fleet scope is anyway? You are MTC right? Totaly different scope.
2. If Sito gives up our medical, and I sincerely hope he doesn't, that will place him right up there with Canoli, but if her does, why? For what reason would he do that?
3. What was the "price" for the no vote and the non dispute be AA? Please enlighten me.

 

[NYer]

AANOTOK I know you addressed this to pj, I have been told the TA goes to your language, we used to have it that way in the contract before this one.I,m a big advocate for that as here in CLT admin does a horrible of calling OT making mistakes daily with no consequences .

Do you know if the TA'd language allows for PTers to be held before FTers? And is the OT sign up still broken down by "Duty Assignments"?

 

[anotherdelay]

Please give me your facts as to why Fleet should believe anything you say, you have no dog in this fight for Fleet scope.

I will ask you simple questions so you might be able to answer.
1. Why do you "assume" the scope will be "higher" than 15 a day?
2. Why do you care what Fleet scope is anyway? You are MTC right? Totaly different scope.
2. If Sito gives up our medical, and I sincerely hope he doesn't, that will place him right up there with Canoli, but if her does, why? For what reason would he do that?
3. What was the "price" for the no vote and the non dispute be AA? Please enlighten me.

pj, you make great points. So does Tim, on these issues. Now, on the twu side a lot of sovereignty was given up, with the b/k scope and association. The pension, being the number 1 issue for your international compromises everything you stand for. Its my belief, the company already knows what they're going to do, and in about a year to 18 months, things are going to get ugly.
Here's what will happen, iampf pension not this year, but next year will start hitting critical status. the progress on mx, and fleet, I don't comment on mx issues, contract will still be at a standstill. What will happen, is the company will do what they want on all these issues, due to the status of your pension. 1. scope will be more towards laa twu with more of your stations being grandfathered. 2. medical will be laa's. 3. Catering will be outsourced. Cargo will be saved. 4. we will have the same contract as United/continental. 5. Twu will be a shell of its former self, as it is now a forced member of the failing pension. 6. language on the contracts will be more toward yours in the key areas. 7.parttime will be increasing.8. mx will finally have the cards signed as they will be united with LUS mx. Lus mx, most members hate the iam, and its short comings as well, as they see the writing on the wall with their jobs being moved anyway.

That said if there is by miracle a contract this year, Twu must have caved on everything, but your medical is gone, catering too, and ready reserve /part time ratios have changed. the iampf is saved for 10 years, with massive cuts, in 18 months.

 

[MetalMover]

Ok and here you are back to making the comment on the TWU being a living breathing entity and not a collection of people.

You know maybe we can point fingers at some of the past people for what they did in forming this Association in the first place? But do I think they were so greedy and evil that they would want to even try and put our Pensions back at risk after all they did to save them? NO I DON'T!!!!! And I don't believe the "people" in there now would consider it either.

Metal I think the entire conversation having any concern about the IAM or TWU Boogeymen touching our Frozen Pensions is completely ludicrous, ridiculous.

It just honestly doesn't make even a tiny ounce of sense to me at all. Sorry.

WeAAZ, I don't want to keep rehashing this, go to Jetnet and go back and look at the LGA town hall.
He says profit sharing, retirement and pension are something we need to get our arms around. It is on the LGA town hall, the section on "TWU-IAM NEGOTIATIONS" at about the 3:40 mark.
What do you think the company means by that?

 

[anotherdelay]

Now, i may be wrong on the medical thing. The company may actually decide to go with iam medical, because the laa membership will focus on the cheaper medical cost, can use along it, with the failing iampf for leverage, while gutting language and scope most don't care about.

 

[anotherdelay]

Do you know if the TA'd language allows for PTers to be held before FTers? And is the OT sign up still broken down by "Duty Assignments"?

the language on their ot, might as well forget ot unless you're in the club. no different than ours in that way. joking.

 

[swamt]

How deep can they cut before its over

They can cut as high as they sell to congress to cut. 3 times that I have watched in past has been 50%, 50% and the latest as high as 60% which ends up giving affected retirees as much as 2/3rds cut in benefit payouts.

So AMFA was going after Fleet at LUS and LAA? Please, give me a break. AMFA was trying to get LAA MTC. AMFA failed miserably. I get you are upset that the so called Craft union got it's butt handed to them, and gave up attempting to get either LAA or the LUS MTC under it's banner. WHY were you so worried about OUR REPRESENTATION? Why were you so concerned about us being "bamboozled"? Was it because you knew the card drive for AMFA would fall short and the only hope was a "write-in" campaign? I am not a fan of the TWU,nor at times,of the IAM, I think the International interferes way to much, but together they might just be stronger that they would have been seperately. That was my choice. So tell me again, WHY WAS AMFA CONCERNED WITH FLEET AT EITHER LUS OR LAA? Would AMFA even consider representing FLEET anywhere? Why doesn't AMFA try and raid SWA Fleet to dump the EVIL TWU, or RAID SWA customer service to rid them of the EVIL IAM. You are trying to sell a union to us that wants nothing to do with FLEET. Please Stop it.

I never said AMFA was after fleet. AMFA won't take fleet as they are not on the list of "related". Not upset chief, just disappointed. The AMFA drive at AA mx was derailed by collusion between the TWU. ibt, AA as well as a little by NMB, and that my friend is why it failed. The AMFA trying to work it's way back in at the time of the "association" vote that was "suppose" to happen as promised by both unions and this asso., is the one I am refering to as far as AMFA getting back in and yes AMFA would have prevailed after all the idiotic BS they unions, co., asso., as well as the NMB just ran over them with, and this is where these unions were scared to death of being removed from the property.
Get a clue dude, I am worried about anyone under the industrial unions still working under BK contracts. No disrespect sir but AMFA does not give 2 shites about your fleet group. It just goes to show how you have no clue how AMFA runs. I will not stop unless the mechanics ask me to leave, reason being, your little buddy here would not leave the mechanics thread when he was asked to leave, so pls explain to little jonny how that feels. I am here for life, you don't like exercise your options it's a free country...

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAZ, I don't want to keep rehashing this, go to Jetnet and go back and look at the LGA town hall.
He says profit sharing, retirement and pension are something we need to get our arms around. It is on the LGA town hall, the section on "TWU-IAM NEGOTIATIONS" at about the 3:40 mark.
What do you think the company means by that?

Ok Metal I just listened to it. Not trying to be a smart ass here. What am I looking for? I heard the comment. I don't hear any grand conspiracy in it?

Sounded to me like they just still needed to talk about a few items which I already knew they did anyway.

I just honestly didn't hear any hidden messages in any of his comments?

 

[WeAAsles]

They can cut as high as they sell to congress to cut. 3 times that I have watched in past has been 50%, 50% and the latest as high as 60% which ends up giving affected retirees as much as 2/3rds cut in benefit payouts.


I never said AMFA was after fleet. AMFA won't take fleet as they are not on the list of "related". Not upset chief, just disappointed. The AMFA drive at AA mx was derailed by collusion between the TWU. ibt, AA as well as a little by NMB, and that my friend is why it failed. The AMFA trying to work it's way back in at the time of the "association" vote that was "suppose" to happen as promised by both unions and this asso., is the one I am refering to as far as AMFA getting back in and yes AMFA would have prevailed after all the idiotic BS they unions, co., asso., as well as the NMB just ran over them with, and this is where these unions were scared to death of being removed from the property.
Get a clue dude, I am worried about anyone under the industrial unions still working under BK contracts. No disrespect sir but AMFA does not give 2 shites about your fleet group. It just goes to show how you have no clue how AMFA runs. I will not stop unless the mechanics ask me to leave, reason being, your little buddy here would not leave the mechanics thread when he was asked to leave, so pls explain to little jonny how that feels. I am here for life, you don't like exercise your options it's a free country...

So it's all about little old me then you being here? I love you man. You've made me feel so special.

Here for LIFE!!!!

Man did I get into your head, lol. Thanks. You REALLY made my day.

I'm your personal rock star.

 

[robbedagain]

pretty bad swamt thx for info

 

[MetalMover]

Ok Metal I just listened to it. Not trying to be a smart ass here. What am I looking for? I heard the comment. I don't hear any grand conspiracy in it?

Sounded to me like they just still needed to talk about a few items which I already knew they did anyway.

I just honestly didn't hear any hidden messages in any of his comments?

Never insinuated a conspiracy, but why mention the retirement and pension as things that need be addressed?
My point is if the FROZEN pension is just that, frozen, what is there to talk about?

 

[WeAAsles]

Never insinuated a conspiracy, but why mention the retirement and pension as things that need be addressed?
My point is if the FROZEN pension is just that, frozen, what is there to talk about?

Because retirement options and pensions still need to be discussed I guess.

Whether people want it or not I'm 100% sure that the IAMPF will be discussed for TWU members, and of course it will be discussed for IAM members.

(Example: How much is/will/should the Company fund into it)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Now, i may be wrong on the medical thing. The company may actually decide to go with iam medical, because the laa membership will focus on the cheaper medical cost, can use along it, with the failing iampf for leverage, while gutting language and scope most don't care about.

Not a chance. Taking 34,000 peeps out of the American medical plan will be problematic for the remaining participants. The IAM did this at McGee Air Services a couple months ago but it was just a subsidiary of Alaska and it hasn't initially affected a lot of people.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not a chance. Taking 34,000 peeps out of the American medical plan will be problematic for the remaining participants. The IAM did this at McGee Air Services a couple months ago but it was just a subsidiary of Alaska and it hasn't initially affected a lot of people.

Sybil stop talking to yourself now. It's getting annoying.